rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Dec 15, 2008 13:35:12 GMT -5
I keep telling people, it doesn't matter WHAT Skynet is doing on the side. Stop it from ever existing and all those side plots don't matter. And the Connors have UTTERLY neglected that whole concept for the entire season! They've done absolutely NOTHING to try to stop Skynet this entire season! Which is why I've been complaining. If these people are the saviors of mankind, it's time to bring in the first string. The Connors have always relied on information from the future. The last time they changed the future, it was because they had detailed information about how Skynet was created. This time, they're in the dark, they're dependent on the tiny morsels left for them by time travelers. They're only doing all these side missions because of the blood wall. It's not like the dead Resistance fighter circled a name and wrote, "kill this guy and you stop Skynet, all these other people are important if Judgment Day actually happens." Very very valid point Vicheron something I've been thinking myself. that's is another reason why I have preferred S2, they've never been off mission...even the stand alones are important.
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DEM
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Post by DEM on Dec 15, 2008 15:04:45 GMT -5
Very very valid point Vicheron something I've been thinking myself. that's is another reason why I have preferred S2, they've never been off mission...even the stand alones are important. Clarification please? Are you saying that the Connors have been on mission more often in S2 than in S1? Just in case the answer is yes, I'll pre-emptively and respectfully disagree. Looking at the episode lists, I can't see when they were ever off-mission in S1; whereas my reaction to a lot of S2 has been "Where is this going and what does it have to do with anything?" Even stuff from the Blood Wall like Dr Boyd Sherman and Myron Stark have felt irrelevant or superfluous to me. In neither of those cases did we get any indication 1) of how they fit into Skynet's plans nor 2) of what their demise would mean in the long-run. The characters even said as much re: Sherman, and two episodes after his death we don't know whether Sarah et al even know this allegedly somehow important guy is dead. Do they care? Will Sarah get around to investigating Myron Stark and, thereby, find out about Cameron's AWOL jaunts to the library? Then there's Jesse & Riley. Their subplots have, I feel, gone on far too long for so little payoff. So, although I don't believe the Connor Crew has done nothing this season, I also don't feel they (and/or the plotting) is very focussed. ... well, except for Sarah and The Three Dots which, oddly, is being read (portrayed?) as a mental defect.
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Post by aceplace57 on Dec 15, 2008 15:25:30 GMT -5
TV Guide Interview with Summer discusses Earthlings Welcomeseattlepi.nwsource.com/tvguide/392190_tvgif15.htmlTV Guides synopsis certainly sounds pretty wild. I wonder if Riley is the character with a shocking secret? "The Sarah Connor Chronicles presents a midseason finale which reveals one character's shocking secret, sets the stage for other surprises, and ultimately leaves Sarah herself in perhaps one of the last situations you'd imagine to find her in. Summer Glau shares a peek at the episode, shedding light on Cameron's "issues" with John's girlfriend and teasing insight into one of the series' biggest mysteries of all. "
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Dec 15, 2008 16:43:47 GMT -5
They may be talking only about Riley being from the future (which already was revealed really, but not every casual viewer may have noticed it). Derek's reasons for not revealing Jesse's identity: 1- He's emotionally attached to her. 2- At least at the beginning, he thinks she's a deserter and he believes that she really came to the past just to run away from the war. 3- So, he might have been protecting her by not letting Sarah and (especially) Cameron know about her existence. Cameron’s reasoning about Riley: 1- Riley has ALWAYS been considered by Cameron as a potential security risk. 2- The real question here is: Why does she finally decide to investigate Riley? A possible answer to this question might be that Cameron realizes that she’s loosing control of the situation since she wasn’t able to convince John to split up with the blonde (even her seduction techniques seemed to be highly un-effective). 3- The events that take place on “Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today” are a direct consequence of the ineffectiveness of her limited understanding of human behavior and emotions. She cannot anticipate to Sarah and John’s reactions (John running away with Riley to Mexico and almost getting killed there, and Sarah leading Cromartie to John by not killing the thief). So, that makes Cameron try to recover the control of the situation by looking for a valid reason to get rid of the blonde. Cameron’s reasons for exploring human behavior and emotions: 1- The reason why Cameron is exploring and trying to understand human behavior and feelings is to keep humans, and especially John, under control by cataloguing their possible emotional reactions and make them predictable (anticipating a possible attempt of suicide, for example). Not being able to keep John by her side all the time might imply that she’s failing at accomplishing her priority mission of protecting him. So she must perfect her understanding of humans to be better at manipulating John’s feelings and fulfill her mission. If she cannot do this, the logical next step is finding the way of getting rid of any human that stands between her and John. 2- The malfunctioning due to the chip damage may have to be with some other interesting derivations regarding the development of real “emotions”, but I think that her primary motivation is still keeping John’s emotional balance under control (or not, that depends on which side you are –I bet Jesse doesn’t think so ). Great post, looking at the possibilities from more than one angle! It will be interesting to see what Derek will do when he has to choose, and what Cameron's motivation will be to go after/investigate Riley. I guess that, contrary to some posters at the FOX forum, Cameron is smart enough to realise that just killing or badly hurting Riley isn't going to get her back into John's good graces. And even if she didn't, his warning from the preview ("stay away from her"!) is clear enough. So, I assume she will have reason to be suspicuous about something regarding Riley. Another (co)possibility is that she may be jealous to some extent (John hardly pays attention to her anymore, she's just a convenience now), as Summer has said she is sort-off toying with the idea of how a robot could be jealous. The only reason Cameron hasn't killed Derek yet is because he's a relative of John's and he's useful to the team. Cameron doesn't actually know that Derek is a relative of John - AFAIK. She hasn't been told that Kyle was John's father, so unless she figured it out on her own she doesn't know. I also don't see why Cameron would have killed Derek anyway, allthough admittedly in those first couple eps involving Derek she seemed to rather have him dead. Perhaps she feared something about her "past" may come out, if she was involved in the "Chopin dungeon". And she needs John to help her in that blending in and surviving in the present. As I've said before, he is as much HER protector as she is his. No one else in the present or future will accept her for what she is. But if Cameron has no form of emotions whatsoever, as your line is if I read you correctly, why would she care about her own survival? The T800 didn't seem to, for example; if his mission was over, there was no reason for him to exist anymore, and he didn't seem to feel bad about that. It was just a fact, not something he wanted to avoid (though of course he wanted to be succesful in his mission, but not out of self-interest).
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Post by vicheron on Dec 15, 2008 18:56:26 GMT -5
Very very valid point Vicheron something I've been thinking myself. that's is another reason why I have preferred S2, they've never been off mission...even the stand alones are important. Clarification please? Are you saying that the Connors have been on mission more often in S2 than in S1? Just in case the answer is yes, I'll pre-emptively and respectfully disagree. Looking at the episode lists, I can't see when they were ever off-mission in S1; whereas my reaction to a lot of S2 has been "Where is this going and what does it have to do with anything?" Even stuff from the Blood Wall like Dr Boyd Sherman and Myron Stark have felt irrelevant or superfluous to me. In neither of those cases did we get any indication 1) of how they fit into Skynet's plans nor 2) of what their demise would mean in the long-run. The characters even said as much re: Sherman, and two episodes after his death we don't know whether Sarah et al even know this allegedly somehow important guy is dead. Do they care? Will Sarah get around to investigating Myron Stark and, thereby, find out about Cameron's AWOL jaunts to the library? Then there's Jesse & Riley. Their subplots have, I feel, gone on far too long for so little payoff. So, although I don't believe the Connor Crew has done nothing this season, I also don't feel they (and/or the plotting) is very focussed. ... well, except for Sarah and The Three Dots which, oddly, is being read (portrayed?) as a mental defect. They didn't actually know what their mission was in season 1 because they had very little information. Again, going back to T2, Uncle Bob had detailed files on how Skynet was created. They knew that Miles Dyson created the neural net processor, Cyberdyne becomes the largest supplier of military computers, stealth bombers get upgraded with Cyberdyne computers and become unmanned, then the Skynet funding bill is passed and all strategic defense is put under the control of Skynet. When asked who was responsible for the construction of Skynet, Uncle Bob specifically said, "The man most directly responsible is Miles Bennet Dyson, Director of Special Projects at Cyberdyne Systems Corporation." There's not much room for misinterpretation there. In season 1 of TSCC, they had no idea who built Skynet, they still have no idea. Andy Goode was just a suspect. Even Andy Goode said in "Dungeons and Dragons" that he wasn't the only one working on Skynet. They don't know if Andy is the person most responsible for creating Skynet. They don't know if the Turk will become Skynet. The information they have is nothing compared to the information they had in T2. For all they know, everything they've done was for nothing, or even negative impact the future. Killing Andy may have been a mistake since the other people future Andy worked with may still be able to create Skynet. Maybe this time there isn't one person who is more directly responsible for Skynet like Miles Dyson was in T2. The blood wall may have led them away from the search for Skynet, or at least what they think is the search for Skynet, but it's information from the future and they help the Resistance in some way. Despite the vagueness of the blood wall, the information from the future will be reliable than what they can find on their own since it has already happened. Even the whole three dots thing points them in a direction they know will be important as opposed to what they did in the first season, which they think might be be important. That's the distinction between the two seasons, there is certainty in what they do this season despite the irony that the information they have season is vague while the information they had last season was more concrete.
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Post by aceplace57 on Dec 15, 2008 21:23:59 GMT -5
Well, it's a cliff hanger for sure.... Riley bleeding out in the bathroom and Sarah gunshot and bleeding in the parking lot. I 'think' they showed Sarah in the preview for the next episode, but I'm not positive. It seems likely that she'll be captured and interrogated. Good thing our next President plans to close Guantánamo Bay. I wouldn't be surprised if Sarah spends several episodes in custody. I'm somewhat confused why Sarah just sat there while that guy walked in and shot the transvestite and doctor. Did she think it was a terminator and couldn't stop it? Someone that grew up in a post apocalyptic world, living in rubble, eating trash would have to be a pretty tough survivor. I find it hard to believe Riley would suddenly off herself. If she was that fragile why didn't she give up when she had to live like an animal? Riley could always hop a bus and move away. It's unlikely that Jesse would waste valuable time hunting her down. No Cameron stalking in this episode. . No throw down with Riley That aircraft may have been a HK. Someone got the plans and is building one. I enjoyed it. It's been a good season. Guess I'll See everybody Next February.
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Post by rove3 on Dec 15, 2008 21:56:36 GMT -5
Someone that grew up in a post apocalyptic world, living in rubble, eating trash would have to be a pretty tough survivor. I find it hard to believe Riley would suddenly off herself. If she was that fragile why didn't she give up when she had to live like an animal? Riley could always hop a bus and move away. It's unlikely that Jesse would waste valuable time hunting her down. I don't buy Riley as a tough person, mentally or physically. I think she's just terrified. She hasn't escaped Judgement Day at all. She's still going to have to face it and there's no guarantee she'll survive it. That said, I can do without the melodrama of her storyline. I'm interested in the Connors and the Reeses and Skynet. And someone please tell me Sarah wasn't abducted by a UFO. I'm kidding...I hope. The episode didn't really blow me away. I don't know any more than I did before the epi aired.
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airofina
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Post by airofina on Dec 15, 2008 22:06:54 GMT -5
Aww.. I'd buy Cameron a smoothie... Awesome episode though, kept me interested from start to finish. I really like how this whole 3 dots thing is coming together. I can't wait to see how it all plays out ;D Hahaha, Cameron's thinking about getting a tattoo of a wolf or a tiger- that convo made my night. She's on to Riley.. which means things are bound to get even more intense between her and John in the back 9. Let’s hope John can get his head out of the clouds and see the truth. On the topic of John, his attitude is starting to really tick me off.. the way he treated Cameron in this episode was unbelievable. Plus he wasn't very nice to Sarah on the phone.. He just doesn’t get it, Cameron and Sarah both are there to protect him- put their lives on the line for him. He can't give them just a little respect... I vote all this comes back to hit him ten-fold. Speaking of Riley.. I don't trust her or Jessie at all. I felt bad that Riley tried to off herself and all, but still... We know they weren’t sent back by John, I’m leaning towards their working against him. Persuading him into doing something that will ultimately change the future. Not Good. Not Good. Cameron's going to have to deal with this, since John's to blind to see it and Sarah's off doing other things. Three dots... well things are getting crazier by the second in that plotline. Is it just me or do those "alien spacecrafts" look like the start of hunter killers? Or some other Skynet aircraft.. Either way this all ties into the beginning of Skynet- especially when the talk of metal came up- Hyperalloy Combat Chassis anyone? I felt horrible when Sarah got shot in the leg. I sure as hell hope she's alright, the whole ending scene was really upsetting. I thought those scene's when Sarah saw a double of herself was really cool, the spinning knife and "No Fate", Reminds me of T2. Oh and let’s not forget, she killed for the first time tonight. It was justified of course- self defense. I hope she doesn't get all wacked out like John.. That’s just not what we need right now. I don't have much to say about Ellison. He needs to get as far away from Weaver and John Henry as possible. Nothing good is going to come out of this.. What can I say? Amazing season so far! Congratulations! Count me in for the switch to Friday nights, I'd watch this show no matter what time or night its on! I couldn't live without this show ;D Damn cliff hangers though, all of this is going to drive me insane.. I’m going to have to rely on my DVD's and Ipod for the next 2 months.
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Post by aceplace57 on Dec 15, 2008 22:13:36 GMT -5
By tough I meant mental. Survivors are just too stubborn to die. They'll do whatever it takes. Steal food, lie etc. They just refuse to give up. I agree Riley is definitely very scared and confused.
I found the future social hierarchy very interesting. The resistance fighters are on top. Civilians are sort of like stray dogs living off scraps. Riley couldn't even look at a resistance fighter.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Dec 15, 2008 22:14:59 GMT -5
On another note, anybody suspect that the motorcycle shooter is Jesse? Think about it. If Jesse thinks that Sarah has screwed up by allowing Cameron to reside with them and influence John, Jesse might well think that offing Sarah - without ever being associated with that act, of course - might be useful. That would leave Derek - and presumably eventually Jesse, at some point when she does reveal herself to John - as the main influences over John. And Jesse pretty much has Derek under her thumb. While he's not easily controllable, he seems to buy whatever she tells him - and she's clever enough to tell him exactly what she needs to to control him. So I suspect that in this episode Jesse tries to off Sarah. And maybe Sarah back tracks the shooter and that's who she confronts with the "who are you" line at gunpoint. That's a very good hypothesis, Richardstevenhack I would say there is zero reason for Sarah to be going to a UFO convention, three dots or not. There's simply no evident connection between the two situations, certainly not one justified by some graphic (...) I think there might be a real connection between the 3 dots on the wall and the location where the UFO Convention is going to take place. The 3 dots were written next to Greenway's name and this is the possible connection I found: On S02-E02, Automatic For The People, Carl Greenway told Sarah that he served at "Eagleside Naval Base", in Texas. Since I don't live in the USA, I'm not quite sure about my geographic knowledge is accurate, but I think that the location of Eagleside Naval Base might be the same (or at least fairly near) to the location where the UFO Convention is going to take place. So, maybe, Sarah was clever enough to establish the connection between the name of Greenway next to the 3 dots on the wall, the Naval Base where Greenway served, and the UFO Convention to take place, presumably, in Texas I assume there's a desert round there... May some-one confirm this information for me, please? (Excuse me, I don't live in USA) Greetings! and thank you for your time!
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Post by rove3 on Dec 15, 2008 22:21:53 GMT -5
I have never heard of an Eagleside Naval Base but there is an Ingleside Naval Station near Corpus Christi, Tx. No deserts there though. It's nearer to the Gulf of Mexico.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Dec 15, 2008 22:25:56 GMT -5
Oh my! I see that there are already some comments about what actually happened on the episode... Excuse me for my belated post, I couldn't watch it yet
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Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 15, 2008 22:30:51 GMT -5
I haven't seen the episode yet either. Need to stop typing and go download it! I stand corrected: Cameron does not appear to know that Derek is John's uncle. She might have been told subsequent to season one, but we've never seen any indication of that. I'm not sure it would matter to her if she did know, other than to give her a reason not to off him. However, I still think if she could off Derek, she probably would. Lately, though, she seems to basically consider him a nuisance, but not a real threat, probably because he's said nothing about the interrogation house or even indicated that he remembered it other than the one "I know you" which could have referred to the interaction in John's HQ. Summer says we're going to find out about their future interaction, but maybe later, maybe not even in this season.. Vicheron: The Connors have always relied on information from the future. The last time they changed the future, it was because they had detailed information about how Skynet was created. This time, they're in the dark, they're dependent on the tiny morsels left for them by time travelers. They're only doing all these side missions because of the blood wall. It's not like the dead Resistance fighter circled a name and wrote, "kill this guy and you stop Skynet, all these other people are important if Judgment Day actually happens." In T-2, they had no clue that Judgment Day was even going to occur. Sarah believed it, because she thought Cyberdyne had absconded with the Terminator remains, correctly as it turned out. John didn't believe it because he'd been told his mother was nuts. When Uncle Bob came back, it all came into focus. James Cameron gave them a specific target which made sense. The whole story was about destroying Cyberdyne's attempt to build a computer that could become Skynet. Once that was done, it would be over and done with - no Skynet, no Judgment Day. Except then the T-3 movie came in, and it was demonstrated that Skynet could be built by almost anybody, leading directly to the question of whether it was even POSSIBLE to stop Skynet from existing and Judgment Day from occurring. The series is in exactly the same state. They KNOW that Skynet is being built in this time period, they just don't know who. There is absolutely no reason to go off mission of finding out. Season 1 was ALL about finding out who was building Skynet. They chased Andy Goode, but ignored the Japanese AI team even though Cameron was essentially correct in saying that the Japanese AI could become Skynet. Sarah blew that off just because the Japanese team wasn't in Derek's team's radar - which was short sighted on her part. ANY AI with a MILITARY CONTRACT has to be suspect. An AI built for commercial purposes might not be, even though ANY AI that is built wrong could go rogue, infiltrate the military network and become Skynet. However, it is more likely that an AI specifically contracted for by the military would end up being Skynet than otherwise. So Sarah should have pursued the Japanese AI team, if only to be sure their AI was NOT going to become Skynet despite a military contract. Instead, she blew it off. The side missions that do not involve stopping Skynet are irrelevant. While it would be reasonable to pursue them to some degree, just because there is no guarantee or even evidence that the Connors even CAN stop Judgment Day, doing so to the complete and utter ignoring of the primary mission is simply not smart. And that's what they've done this season. The one exception is Dr. Sherman, who was directly, if apparently peripherally, involved in creating Skynet. And in that situation, once again, they dropped the ball by not following up. You can't possibly argue that not following up on his case was in any way intelligent on their part. While it was clear that the whole Mexico thing pretty much distracted them, it appears that since then the distraction has been this "three dots" nonsense. If John had spent five minutes Googling for results on Dr. Sherman instead of "fifty thousand Web sites with three dots in their logo", he might have hit on the fact that Sherman was found dead at Zeira Corp - which happens to have an AI division, for which Sherman was working as a consultant. BINGO! New target! Instead, we got...nothing. Once again, if this crew are the saviors of mankind, time to send in the first string. Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys do better than this.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Dec 15, 2008 22:34:12 GMT -5
I have never heard of an Eagleside Naval Base but there is an Ingleside Naval Station near Corpus Christi, Tx. No deserts there though. It's nearer to the Gulf of Mexico. Oh, I see, I messed it up even with the name of the Naval Station Thank you for explaining, Rove3
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Post by allergygal on Dec 15, 2008 22:48:42 GMT -5
Oh.my.God. I LOVED that episode. More later.
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