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Post by chrisimo on Nov 12, 2008 15:04:17 GMT -5
What's so wrong with wanting Sarah to kill that girl from the bowling alley? Granted that the boy in the bowling alley had really big deer-in-headlights eyes, long hair, and no semblance of facial hair whatsoever, I suppose it'd be understandable to misidentify him as a girl, but even so... And he was in the men's restroom.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Nov 12, 2008 15:33:54 GMT -5
Sarah simply need to realize that they aren't trying to stop a war...they're in a war right now. And those who hold information that might lead the enemy to you need to be silenced. I don't want her to go on a slaughter spree but at least use some modicum of common sense. She's not his mother...and he's her enemy regardless of whether he's peeing his pants or giving her I'm sorry puppy dog eyes. Right now as inconsistent as John is at least he's beginning to get it. If Sarah keepa on denying that killing is needed on day it's really going to have far worse consequences. Some are killers. Others are not. Sarah is one of those that aren't. Perhaps one day she will be forced into a situation where she needs to kill or perhaps understands that the person she needs to kill is truly dangerous. But, I don't think killing an unarmed 15 year old boy was that point for Sarah.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 12, 2008 16:48:46 GMT -5
Agreed on all accounts, Ross.
I don't they "get it."
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Post by rayartz on Nov 12, 2008 17:11:35 GMT -5
Just giving a heads up IGN.com has posted up their review of Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today: tv.ign.com/articles/929/929101p1.htmlThey rated it a 9.6-"Incredible" which I might add is the highest rating they've given an episode yet as they usually dish out 8.0-8.5s I understand that this review means very little and that it was written by a gaming, tv, movie geek like us all but if this is sign of things to come I'm certain this show will continue to impress all those who watch! and with reviews like this it'll make those who don't watch take a gander and hopefully get hooked!
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Nov 12, 2008 17:13:58 GMT -5
Cameron's seduction attempt was silly and pretty sad. John already had his bag packed and was ready to meet Riley. The whole time Cameron was lying there he's thinking, "Won't she ever leave? I got to sneak out and meet Riley!". I disagree. Her seduction was crude but what she told him had a meaningful effect, only that he's still being rebellious. Not to mention everything she said is just the simple truth. PS. Sarah's struggle to keep her humanity isn't going anywhere. That's one thing that separates the Connors from their enemy. I see no way that Sarah would execute that poor kid, who definitely didn't deserve to die.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 12, 2008 18:40:50 GMT -5
It doesn't matter whether he deserved to die.
Just like it doesn't matter that Sarah is forced into the life of a paranoid mother of a future leader.
The fact of the matter is he was a loose end and a risk.
With a very methodical Cromartie always on the lookout for them killing him would've been very very smart.
If not via Sarah Via cameron.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 12, 2008 18:47:56 GMT -5
When Sarah said, "I'm not a murderer," Cromartie replied, "who is?" I wonder what he meant. Does that mean he doesn't think of himself as a murderer? After all, Cromartie has only killed out of necessity in order to complete his mission. That would imply that no one who kills thinks of themselves as murderers because they kill out necessity. It would also imply that even though Sarah doesn't think of herself as a murderer, she will have to kill someone in the future.
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Post by aceplace57 on Nov 12, 2008 18:58:02 GMT -5
I'm very glad that Sarah has kept her humanity.
There's a reason our troops operate under rules of engagement. It's the very thing that sets us apart from the people that we fight. A close friend of mine did two tours in Iraq. He's mentioned that they'd see guys at checkpoints that obviously weren't farmers or merchants. They'd search everyone and let them pass. He said it bothered him because he had a strong feeling they were bad. But, there was nothing to prove it and they followed the rules.
Bad things happen in war. Soldiers are under tremendous stress and they sometimes break the rules. But, our armed forces tries hard to enforce rules of engagement. They prosecute cases where soldiers don't follow them.
Sarah and John have to limit killing as much as possible. John knew he couldn't stay in jail. Cromartie was on the way. Breaking out of jail is understandable. But, I'd like to think he'd draw the line at actually killing a cop.
Maybe there are no rules in a post-apocalyptic world. But, TSCC is set in 2007 and the Connors have to remember that.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Nov 12, 2008 19:01:42 GMT -5
It doesn't matter whether he deserved to die. It matters a great deal to both the Connors. You can call it a 'flaw', if anyone really has the nerve to call it such. When Sarah said, "I'm not a murderer," Cromartie replied, "who is?" I wonder what he meant. It seemed rhetorical.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 12, 2008 19:11:09 GMT -5
When Sarah said, "I'm not a murderer," Cromartie replied, "who is?" I wonder what he meant. It seemed rhetorical. But when has a Terminator ever asked a rhetorical question. Cromartie has actually answered rhetorical questions before.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 12, 2008 19:16:20 GMT -5
It doesn't matter whether he deserved to die. It matters a great deal to both the Connors. You can call it a 'flaw', if anyone really has the nerve to call it such. Darn right it's a flaw. And I hope the writers realize that and have something come up that makes them realize it as a flaw.
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traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 12, 2008 19:19:54 GMT -5
I assumed what Cromartie meant, ergo the writers was that he sees himself as a soldier, executing a mission. So long as soldiers don't step beyond the boundaries of their ROE's (rules of engagement) then they're legally protected under international law. Since the pilot the writers seem to have been at pains to show that Cromartie only kills those that are directly involved in his mission outline, if a Human doesn't represent a risk to his mission he leaves them be, in short he doesn't kill indiscriminately and just like a soldier who has to kill people in combat he doesn't view what he does as murder.
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Post by aceplace57 on Nov 12, 2008 19:33:21 GMT -5
Writers used to avoid creating situations that would force hero characters to kill indiscriminately. I'm a big fan of the old Mission Impossible series. The IMF very rarely used deadly force. They never accepted assassination assignments. Once in awhile they'd frame someone (Mafia guys) and walk away knowing they'd be killed by their criminal associates. Most television is like that. Maybe it's not completely realistic, but tv is public entertainment. Kids are watching. It's not that hard to craft the writing to avoid having the heroes kill. Even a violent show like the A Team avoided killing. There were lots of explosions & gunfights, but usually people didn't die. Cromartie was one of my favorite characters on TSCC. He was a solider on a mission. He even put up with Jody's crap and didn't kill her. He killed only when it was necessary for his mission. He could have killed Sarah. There was really no reason to take her to Mexico. But, there was a small chance he could use her to get John. Cromartie was always thinking before he killed. I liked the character.
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Post by theturk on Nov 12, 2008 19:47:13 GMT -5
Putting characters in impossible moral situations and watching them deal with them is the heart of good drama in our books. The fact that people are arguing over whether or not Sarah should have killed the defenseless kid in the bowling alley is a good thing as far as we're concerned, because it means there wasn't a pat or easy answer to the situation.
Someday we'll tell you about the early draft of the script that became "Dungeons and Dragons" and the morally horrifying things it had Derek doing while in Skynet captivity....
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 12, 2008 19:49:46 GMT -5
Putting characters in impossible moral situations and watching them deal with them is the heart of good drama in our books. The fact that people are arguing over whether or not Sarah should have killed the defenseless kid in the bowling alley is a good thing as far as we're concerned, because it means there wasn't a pat or easy answer to the situation. Someday we'll tell you about the early draft of the script that became "Dungeons and Dragons" and the morally horrifying things it had Derek doing while in Skynet captivity.... NIce. Good writing does encourage good discussion. And could you make someday soon?
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