traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
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Post by traitorsgate on Oct 21, 2008 19:16:29 GMT -5
16.) So, at whatever point Jesse left the Future (some time after Derek left, it seems), John Connor has placed at least one reprogrammed Terminator in every major Resistance base. This is despite the fact that they still frequently "go bad" and cause massive casualties. I'm starting to think that the future John Connor is a terminator replacement infiltrating the resistance to destroy it on behalf of Skynet, and the person who is gonna get killed this season is JOHN. This will make it exponentially more crucial to stop Judgement Day entirely, as it is no longer a viable backup plan to keep John alive so he can win the war afterwards. The sooner people acknowledge the severe limitations that the "John Connor is the saviour of Mankind" is on TSCC the better. So long as your able to accept that your able to send people back in time then John Connor is effectively redundant as it's already been made clear that the time travel paradox doesn't exist. The only reason it seems that the producers seem to be slavishly following the aforementioned theory is it's perceived as Canon and they dare not mess with it for fear of earning the ire of the pasty-faced Nerd Brigade who seem to think that James Cameron is some sort of deity. That's bolloks TSCC doesn't owe James Cameron so much as the time of day. After all what better way to attract a larger following to the show than take the series in a completely different direction to what was laid out in the first two films.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
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Post by schmacky on Oct 21, 2008 19:46:15 GMT -5
It's a shame Sarah or Derek didn't take even a moment to acknowledge that Cameron saved the day. We don't know for sure what the Red Haired bots mission was. But it doesn't matter. The moment she recognized John, he would be the target. He was there unarmed and defenseless. Not giving Cameron any encouragement at all is very dangerous. You can only kick a stray dog so long before it turns on you. Would it have been that hard for Sarah to privately approach Cameron and say "good job today". That's basic leadership 101. I really enjoyed seeing Cameron almost back to normal. She totally kicked butt in this episode. I know she's still damaged, but once in awhile she saves the day. Well, Cameron didn't say thank you to Sarah for shooting Terminator Greenway and giving Cameron a chance to finish the guy off. That's just rude. And, maybe if Sarah should be thanking Cameron, she should be reprimanding her as well. "You let John out of your sight!" But we didn't get any of that. Thanking the Terminator... that seems silly. Nobody thanks anybody in that house. Or praises each other. It's not Cameron, it's everyone.
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Post by allergygal on Oct 21, 2008 23:41:47 GMT -5
2.) Yay voiceover! The "excerpts from the journals of Sarah Connor" voiceovers that bookend each ep was a nice hallmark of the first season. It's been sorely missed so far in second season. Glad to see it back. Yay indeed, but not too big of a yay. They said on the official blog that the voice-overs are only going to be on some episodes. Such a shame. It was so nice to have them back again. Yes, that drove me nuts. She was about to tell them something and they just cut her off. They don't even consider that she might actually have some insight seeing as how she's actually *from* the future and was all chummy with future!John. Nah, that was okay. They were there under the guise of considering some family therapy. I did, however, find it hard to believe that Sarah would go back to see the psychiatrist, given her rather extensive experience with psychiatrists. Heh. She must have been worried that John was suicidal and was mega-desperate about how to get through to him (perhaps John could use a 3-year stint at Pescadero ). It's becoming more like a human. What did Sarah say to Cameron about humans in Heavy Metal? "...stupid, illogical, inefficient things. Humans, get used to it." It would have been irresponsible for Derek to mention the Connors to Jesse. And since he's got a personal thing with Jesse and she might be completely off-mission as far as he knows, I can see why he kept her to himself. Something tells me that decision will come back to haunt him though. Jesse's clearly up to no good. Oh I loved that. It really goes to the heart of the larger issue Sarah and John have been dealing with their whole lives. He wants a normal life — wants to feel safe, but he can't have that. And Sarah's forever torn between trying to provide him some semblance of a normal life and keeping him safe and on alert. It's an issue that can never be resolved. Neither one of them can ever feel safe. If they let down their guard, John could wind up dead. Yeah I don't quite get that either. Why was Derek so concerned about John having seen his mom kill a guy who was going to kill them. Perhaps a little more traumatic to see your mom strangle a guy than having your uncle blow a guy's brains out next to your head, but considering how the latter didn't affect John in the slightest, I don't know why Derek would have been worried about John seeing Sarkissian killed. Maybe there's a missing piece of dialog where Derek tells Sarah "He saw it all? Well just take him out for ice cream tomorrow and let him see his 5-year-old daddy and he'll be fine." ;D I did some searches to try to find out what psychiatrists are required to report and I think they're only have to report imminent crimes, not past crimes. If that's correct, then John could blab all he wants about killing Sarkissian. He might want to keep any mention of his sister being a robot or him being the future savior of mankind to himself though (unless he actually wants some time at Pescadero)
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Post by ReeseDN38416 on Oct 21, 2008 23:57:56 GMT -5
Yay! Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles is back.
I haven't read any of the other posts yet. So I'm sorry. This board is such exercise for the brain which is good. It's just not casual reading.
This episode addressed a lot of the problems I was having with the show as of the episode before last. I loved "Goodbye to All That." But before that I was worrying about the lack of proactivity... that's not a word is it? I wanted them to go after "The Turk."
Catherine Weaver has become so interesting to me! I loved the glimpse we got of the human, joking, laughing, beautiful, animated Catherine Weaver. The photo shoot was wonderful and I thought "this is for the fans." So many people have been complaining about how wooden Weaver is. I loved them addressing Weaver's daughter. There were some very chilling moments and some very hilarious moments as the T-1001 dealt with trying to connect with a human child. Wonderfully done.
I've discovered a new favorite Terminator "thing." The near miss. There were plenty of fun near misses. Weaver misses John near the end of the episode at the psychologists office. Cameron and unnamed Terminator walk side by side forever before realizing they were enemies. Wonderful. I enjoyed the fact that John removing the bug saved his life AND cost them a lead on the Turk.
So I think I was most happy to see "The Turk." The whole mystery about it's behavior ends up to be a cute dorky joke. I love it. LOL! It made me think of Andy. "The Turk" is Andy's child. *giggle*
I adore the new addition to the show the psychologist. I thought it would slow down the momentum of the plot to have them sitting around and talking and maybe it did... but it turned out wonderfully. Great casting. I can't wait to see more of him.
Ellison on the other hand was thankfully absent. *sigh* I really wanted to like him b/c he was so good on Judging Amy but... he's just boring.
John got on my nerves a bit. But I felt sad that he doesn't get to have a childhood.
I liked the introduction of Derek's girlfriend. I was confused about her question... "Is there a word for what we just did?" Had they never had sex? I didn't buy that. But I liked the glimpse of her world and her war through her eyes. John's reliance on Terminators to defeat Skynet seemed very nauseating from her POV. Watching her friends die because of it. I'm sure the good outweighs the bad but still...
I was glad to see that she has a secret agenda. Heck I was glad to see her. Battlestar Galactica: Razor ROCKED! She's gorgeous and strong and that accent. ;D I'm excited.
Um... not a Sarah heavy episode. I was kind of disappointed that the flashbacks and John's therapy sessions went nowhere. They just seemed unfinished somehow.
I'd say that's the worst part of the show right now. It's still finding it's legs so sometimes it seems a bit unfinished. A little disjointed. That and Ellison. *sigh* I hope his character can pick up the pace.
But I loved this episode. I can't wait for the next. The preview... well what I saw before the tape cut off looks SO GOOD. Riley will be back... Looks like it'll be action packed.
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Post by Big Brother on Oct 22, 2008 0:18:01 GMT -5
I do wonder why the weight limit of the elevator didn't go off (I can let that slide because it was so cool though) Sigh. Do you mean, why didn't it go off from the inertial shock of them throwing each other back and forth? I can almost see that being a concern. I'll have to ask my elevator-repairman neighbor if elevators typically have sensors that buzz when they shake excessively. Do you mean, why didn't it go off from two Terminators who weigh a ton being in it at the same time? Please. People blow that one line from T3 way out of proportion. In TSCC, Terminators may be enough denser than people that they can't swim very well. But they're close enough to the mass of an equivalent human being that no one is surprised once they get a fully-functional Terminator in the sack. Maybe they mass 10% more than an equivalent human...easily enough to make swimming a lot harder than sinking, but not really enough to tip off a lover in mid-wrestle. Maybe they weigh twice as much, and avoid being on top when things get sweaty between the sheets. Even in that case, neither actress weighs more than 100 pounds sopping wet, and surely an elevator can take 400 pounds.
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Post by allergygal on Oct 22, 2008 0:43:32 GMT -5
I wanted them to go after "The Turk." I think we're going to have to wait for Sarah or John to accidentally find out about it from being at the shrink's office or something. But I do wish they'd at least try to pick up the trail again. It's like they just forgot about the all-important Turk after the fire. Yes!! The Catherine story is finally moving — finally getting interesting. It's taken entirely too long to get moving, but at least we're going somewhere now. I'm actually looking forward to more Catherine for the first time. I know. Poor Ellison. How many more weeks can he be on a hunt for Cromartie without us actually seeing him on a hunt for Cromartie? And even then I don't know if I'll care. The man's been a wandering subplot for 14 episodes now. Hook him up with the Connors already! I was disappointed with the Sarah and John stuff too because I feel like we've come 6 episodes and not made any progress. Right now things between them are almost exactly as they were at the end of the first episode. Their house of misery is still a house of misery. The only thing that's changed is we now have some hope that John will finally talk to Sarah about what happened so they can reconcile. Either that or someone needs to have a psychotic break to change things up. -- And please... No more guns for John. So far this season, we've seen him point a gun at Derek, point a gun at his mom and almost shoot himself by attempting to clean a loaded gun. The boy is too emotionally unstable to be handling firearms!
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Post by vicheron on Oct 22, 2008 1:00:59 GMT -5
It's a shame Sarah or Derek didn't take even a moment to acknowledge that Cameron saved the day. We don't know for sure what the Red Haired bots mission was. But it doesn't matter. The moment she recognized John, he would be the target. He was there unarmed and defenseless. Not giving Cameron any encouragement at all is very dangerous. You can only kick a stray dog so long before it turns on you. Would it have been that hard for Sarah to privately approach Cameron and say "good job today". That's basic leadership 101. I really enjoyed seeing Cameron almost back to normal. She totally kicked butt in this episode. I know she's still damaged, but once in awhile she saves the day. Well, Cameron didn't say thank you to Sarah for shooting Terminator Greenway and giving Cameron a chance to finish the guy off. That's just rude. And, maybe if Sarah should be thanking Cameron, she should be reprimanding her as well. "You let John out of your sight!" But we didn't get any of that. Thanking the Terminator... that seems silly. Nobody thanks anybody in that house. Or praises each other. It's not Cameron, it's everyone. Ironically, the problem with Cameron may be that she's too human. Remember what Sarah said about Uncle Bob in T2: "Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The Terminator would never stop, it would never leave him... it would always be there. And it would never hurt him, never shout at him or get drunk and hit him, or say it couldn't spend time with him because it was too busy. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice." That's a level of loyalty and dedication that almost no human can match. The reason why Sarah trusted Uncle Bob was because his relentless and unquestioning nature is directed towards the protection of John Connor. Cameron on the other hand has too many of the inconsistent and untrustworthy qualities of humans.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Oct 22, 2008 2:43:52 GMT -5
So anyone really thinks John is suicidal? While I don't think he was trying to end his life. His talk of wanting to escape do have the shades of what could make one suicidal.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Sarah is far more likely to trust a machine that is utterly predictable than she's to trust a human because humans have a mind of their own. Cameron's problem is that she doesn't take orders and acts on her own, besides being enigmatic. Sarah doesn't like enigmatic.
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Post by driftlight23 on Oct 22, 2008 5:44:20 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with the pace of events on this show because I approach it pretty much like a rich, complicated novel, and I trust that things will be revealed as and when necessary. It's so nice to have TV drama that's actually having things take some time to work out. And I don't have a problem with the characterisations either for pretty much the same reason. You know what SCC is really starting to remind me of? A Cold War espionage thriller of the dark 'Checkpoint Charlie' variety. It's that whole Eighties 'fear of apparently inevitable nuclear war/merciless Soviet invasion' vibe underpinning and informing it all. Different clandestine factions working against each other, anyone could be a double-agent, the immense psychological and moral toll. All combined with killer robots, emergent AI, an examination of what makes a family work/not work and the Wizard of Oz. I like that you can't trust anyone. Especially not the production crew. I like that a lot! And I *really* enjoyed this episode.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Oct 22, 2008 6:38:20 GMT -5
As for the elevator, weight issues probably wouldn't apply depending on the quality of the elevator and what it's rated for. I know an elevator at 101 California Street in San Francisco that has - are you ready for this? - maybe two dozen MARBLE SLABS on the walls of the elevator. REAL marble. Maybe five hundred pounds worth! And the elevator goes maybe 30-40-50 stories! Oh, yeah, I want to be in that elevator when the Big One hits! So I don't think the combined weight of the Caminator and the Pretzelator would be a problem, since they probably weigh each maybe 300-350 lbs (that IS steel under there, not dense flesh.) You WOULD notice it if Cameron fell on you! That's why whenever one of them hits the ground, they do a significant sound effect to indicate WEIGHT hitting the ground. "She wants to be with the Derek who went back in time, and she's been looking for him? That would explain both the surveillance pics of Derek and John No, it wouldn't. How would she know how to find them if future John didn't tell her where they were? If she can find them that fast, then Cromartie should have been able to, let alone Weaver. She HAS to have inside info from the future about them. Now, she might have gotten that from Skynet or John, but she got it from somebody. My guess is absolutely everything she told Derek was a lie. Somebody suggested that the Pretzelator was intended to be the doc's protector, like Vic was Barbara's. I like that idea since she apparently was intending to pretend to be the "temp" after knocking off his secretary. Otherwise why bother with the secretary - just walk in and kill him. Unfortunately for Skynet Cameron screwed that up. So the Connors don't know it yet, but they scored a significant hit on Skynet's plans. This also solves my problem with why a Terminator would be sent to kill a guy that Weaver wants to use. Answer: she wasn't. She was his protector, like Vic. And that also explains why Cameron said what she did. She intended to say, "some targets need killing." And that's what both John and Sarah knew she would say, which is why they cut her off. But that's EXACTLY what the situation is with the doctor. And that puts Sarah in a dilemma - because they've never killed anybody that was simply a dupe of Skynet. Derek was the one who killed Andy Good - Sarah was just going to lay it all out for Andy instead of killing him. Miles Dyson was killed by cops. But now Sarah and John have to KILL AN INNOCENT GUY! (Or, of course, just lay it out for him and turn him - if they can. They better make sure Cameron is around so they can prove they aren't nuts to this shrink!) That's going to seriously screw up their heads. Now, one of the reasons I originally thought Cameron was sent back without the directive to obey John's or Sarah's orders was that future John KNEW there would be a situation arising where neither his past self nor his mother would be able to handle the situation, and therefore he wanted a Terminator who was operating independently to handle it regardless of how his past self or his mother felt about it. This is it. Only a Terminator operating independently can take matters into her own hands and kill the doctor - just as she (correctly) killed Enrique last season - something Sarah really wouldn't have done despite her complaints to Cameron that Cameron didn't know her. Cameron was right - Sarah wouldn't have killed Enrique - she bought his story completely and we now know she would never have the nerve to kill him without KNOWING he was a snitch - and even then it would have traumatized her. Like I said, "John's best fighter", as Cameron said in that episode? I'm not seeing it. If she can't kill a human in cold blood, she's not capable of leading this fight. Because in the end, if they can't figure out a way to get the rest of the human race involved in the fight to stop Skynet from being built, if they try to tough it out alone, they're going to have to kill people who are (mistakenly or otherwise, e.g., cops) going to try to kill them. Yeah, I know, in T-2, Arnie shot up all those cop cars and didn't kill anybody. But he also kneecapped all those SWAT cops plus the gate guard at Pescadero. So it's not like those cops are gonna be his friends if they ever run into him again. Or Sarah's. It's like Morpheus said in the first Matrix movie. The rest of the world is locked into the Matrix - and that makes them the enemy - and not just because an Agent can pop out through any of them, either. The comment from Jesse - if it was true, which is doubtful - that John has reprogrammed Terminators everywhere thoroughly fits in with James Middleton's statement that John has "embraced the enemy." That's the sort of strategic thinking that can enable him to win. OTOH, when one of them goes bad, it also means major casualties of his own men. Yet he does it anyway. He consciously or unconsciously sacrifices the lives of those soldiers in order to achieve his goals. This portends a colder, more ruthless future John than the present John is evidencing. It portends a future John who in some respects is not much different than Skynet in attitude. Which, of course, fits in nicely with the theme of the franchise being: where does man end and machine begin or vice versa?
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Post by vicheron on Oct 22, 2008 13:21:05 GMT -5
I think that Sarah and John both know that sooner or later they'll have to off some poor innocent schmuck for the greater good. After all, they know that John will eventually have to coerce his own father into volunteering for a suicide mission.
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Post by allergygal on Oct 22, 2008 14:16:42 GMT -5
So anyone really thinks John is suicidal? While I don't think he was trying to end his life. His talk of wanting to escape do have the shades of what could make one suicidal. I agree. I don't think he's consciously suicidal, but he's certainly been reckless and careless. He put Cameron's chip back in, he brought an overly friendly girl he'd just met to their house, he ditched his protector robot, he shouted out his name to a terminator, and he attempted to clean a loaded gun. Mix all that with some emotional instability and it's cause for concern.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
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Post by rossbondreturns on Oct 22, 2008 14:50:21 GMT -5
Of course if enough of those Reprogrammed terminators go on slaughters it's only a matter of time before the war could terminally switch in the Machines favor.
John Connor is playing with fire...big time. It doesn't shock me that Resistance members are split over this.
And if the split becomes to large it could be the failure of any hope.
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tom
Private
I'll be back....as soon as I figure out how I can leave.
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Post by tom on Oct 22, 2008 14:51:26 GMT -5
He's more irresponsible than suicidal. He put Cameron's chip back in for a different reason. He obviously liked Cameron. And if you think about it, shouting his name at a terminator wouldn't make much difference after it saw him, cause it identifies people by face and not name. And bringing up a strange girl...well....he's made of man after all. But he has some issues definitely.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Oct 22, 2008 15:02:39 GMT -5
In the words of one disgruntled soldier. Just how much that is indicative of the full picture is not clear. According to his general (?) in D&D they wouldn't be able to do what they have without using the machines.
In one interview Josh Friedman said that the intensity of John's relationship with Cameron will have consequences. I hope they are not setting up the final morale to be that John must learn to hate Cameron (or even kill her) for him to become what he needs to be.
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