DEM
Refugee
I'm Kilroy.
Posts: 94 
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Post by DEM on Jan 19, 2009 18:49:51 GMT -5
Seems like some people can't make peace with that. Oh, you have wounded me to the very quick. However shall I go on? |
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Post by allergygal on Jan 19, 2009 19:32:28 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: Everyone is free to argue their point, but let's keep it pleasant.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 19, 2009 21:47:15 GMT -5
I think it's clear that Sarah Connor is the main character of the show from the franchise concept viewpoint.
However, from a ratings standpoint, and from an interesting character standpoint., as I've said before, Cameron is fifty percent of the show - and John and Sarah are the other fifty percent.
No disrespect to the rest of the cast, of course. But that's how I see it.
The show is about Sarah Connor, John Connor and a Terminator. Period. Just like the movies, especially T-2.
T-1 didn't have a John Connor, so it was a love story between Sarah and Kyle, and the protagonists were Sarah and Kyle, with the Terminator being the antagonist.
T-2 was definitely about Sarah Connor AND John Connor AND the Terminator. They were the protagonists with the bad Terminator being the antagonist.
The series is the same as T-2, with varying persons being the antagonists. In season one, the antagonist was Cromartie and Ellison and assorted thugs. In season two, the antagonists are Weaver, Cromartie and Eillson, Ellison more or less unwittingly.
In season one, the episodes were mostly the three main protagonists operating together against the antagonists. Season two changed that, with the main protagonists mostly pairing off with the secondary characters (Sarah with Derek, John with Derek, Sarah with Cameron, John with Cameron, etc.) None of that is "bad" just different.
As for the VO's, I've never cared one way or the other about them, except insofar as they might have held clues as to the meaning of the episode. Clearly they were used to establish the POV as Sarah's. The fact that they were missing for much of season two I don't think had any real impact. It might have had some on new viewers if they didn't get that Sarah Connor was supposed to be the POV, but that's about it.
I think the way they handled "Goodbye to All That" was pretty good - the VO essentially was woven into the story, as Sarah reads "The Wizard of Oz" final scenes with those scenes playing out in the real world. That was clever, and I'd like to see that done again somehow.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Jan 20, 2009 15:45:37 GMT -5
I think it's clear that Sarah Connor is the main character of the show from the franchise concept viewpoint. However, from a ratings standpoint, and from an interesting character standpoint., as I've said before, Cameron is fifty percent of the show - and John and Sarah are the other fifty percent. No disrespect to the rest of the cast, of course. But that's how I see it. Ratings standpoint? The ratings for the two Cameron-centric episodes this season were bad. Worse than usual. What makes you think Cameron is a ratings-puller? And interesting character standpoint... that's totally subjective. -- I was putting together my fanmade trailer (seriously, spread it around, it needs to get out!) www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOF_FfSVxtUand I realized everything revolves around John. I mean, duh. But, everything is about him and it used to be that Sarah was telling the story but I swear without those VOs it just doesn't feel like it's her story. BTW, everyone says John a lot, you don't hear anyone else's name much. In fact, I remember it being weird when Cameron said "Sarah" because we never hear it. Not a complaint, just noticed how often you hear John's name. EDIT: Consecutive posts combined. |
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Post by allergygal on Jan 20, 2009 18:55:58 GMT -5
It's certainly possible (I think likely actually) that TPTB thought they'd have stronger viewership by at least making the show appear to be more about John than anyone else. But the ratings dropped this season, so if that was the intention, it didn't work. I'm not sure that John being pushed more heavily is really what made me feel the change so much though. I think it was the weakened serialization. Without plot always tying episodes together tightly, the lack of a clear protagonist became more prominent.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 21, 2009 7:03:40 GMT -5
It's not clear from the ratings that they were worse than usual because the show was about Cameron. I don't recall any specific cause-effect established there as opposed to other things on TV those weeks.
What I DO know is that John has irritated a lot of fans with his behavior, and Sarah has been a basket case, at least later in the front 13. Cameron was sidelined as a result except for those two episodes and a significant presence in "Brothers of Nablus" and a couple of others.
Dump Cameron and see how fast the show goes dead in the water ratings wise. Probably fifty percent of the (hard-core) viewers are Summer Glau and/or Joss Whedon fans.
The reality is that the FRANCHISE is about Sarah, John and a Terminator - whether that Terminator is good or bad. And while the show is called "The Sarah Connor Chronicles", it's also prefaced by "Terminator".
So the Terminator is THE main character in the franchise and the show, and Sarah and John (or Sarah and Kyle in T-1) make up the other half..
As an aside, it will be interesting if T-4 can ride solely on Christian Bale's John Connor or if there has to be a Terminator to carry the other fifty percent. They put Sam Worthington in there for a reason. I don't think anybody doubts that Christian Bale can carry a movie by himself - but the Terminator franchise has always been about humans and Terminators.
So, again, Cameron is fifty percent of the show, both from a franchise standpoint and from a ratings standpoint.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Jan 21, 2009 14:45:42 GMT -5
I gotta say richard, I do not understand your reasoning at all. Because the word "Terminator" is before "Sarah Connor Chronicles" Cameron is 50% of the show and THE main character of the show? Perhaps it's called "Terminator" because that grabs everyone's attention? Because everyone knows what Terminator is. And "THE main character" the Terminator.. well, there's 3 of them. So by your reasoning Cameron, Cromartie/John Henry, and Weaver are 50% of the show and John and Sarah are the other 50%.
I still don't understand the ratings standpoint. There's absolutely nothing to back up what you just said. Yes, Cameron is popular but do not agree with 50% thing. I'd like to really understand that ratings standpoint.... where'd you get that number anyway? Because you like Cameron and she's popular on the 'net?
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Jan 21, 2009 15:30:59 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: ONE MORE WORD ABOUT RATINGS AND I WILL TURN THIS THREAD RIGHT AROUND!
I MEAN IT.
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cyadon
Major
A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Jan 21, 2009 15:31:10 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: k8ie beat me to it. 
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Jan 21, 2009 15:32:52 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: ONE MORE WORD ABOUT RATINGS AND I WILL TURN THIS THREAD RIGHT AROUND!
I MEAN IT. Even though it's written word and through the internet.. you still reminded me of my mother and that scares the crap out of me. I think Sarah is sometimes the protagonist ;D |
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Post by allergygal on Jan 21, 2009 15:34:28 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: Moderators should be more careful about moderating the same thread at the same time. OR ELSE!!!!!! ;D
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Jan 21, 2009 16:17:19 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: Moderators should be more careful about moderating the same thread at the same time. OR ELSE!!!!!! ;D I'm not afraid of you, you know.  Much.I agree that Sarah is sometimes the protagonist or sometimes not, depending on the episode but I think that Sarah should be the series POV character - regardless of who's leading the charge in a given episode. |
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Post by vicheron on Jan 21, 2009 21:57:39 GMT -5
Sarah and John are the most important characters in terms of storyline. However, from a promotional standpoint, Cameron is definitely the most prominent character. They are capitalizing on Summer Glau's popularity. There are all the Firefly fans who are watching the show because of Summer and then there's the obvious hot teenage robot appeal. They did the same thing with the movies. If you look at the ads for T1 when it first came out, Arnold Schwarzengger wasn't featured as prominently as he was in the ads for T2 and T3. The trailer for T1 was all about Sarah Connor. The trailer for T2 was all about how the Terminator is back and this time he's a good guy. T1 trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Jo8QoOTQ4T2 trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWutJqsk0IEThe T1 trailer only focused on the Terminator towards the end of the trailer but it was still mainly about Sarah Connor. The T2 trailer was basically all about the Terminator. Studios do this kind of thing all the time. The most recent example I can think of is "The Forbidden Kingdom." All the ads for the movie suggested that it was going to be mainly about Jackie Chan and Jet Lee but the movie was actually focused on some white kid who ended up in ancient China. |
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