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Post by vicheron on Sept 10, 2008 6:30:18 GMT -5
Well, again going back to T2, Uncle Bob went against his programming to obey John's orders so he could let Sarah lower him into the molten steel. However, the thing with Cameron is that we don't really know what she was programmed to do. She can lie and she doesn't have to obey John so we don't know if she actually went against her mission.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 10, 2008 14:22:16 GMT -5
I don't think Cameron judged that the blood was male or female, only that it was fresh and blood. Watch again. She did. It was right there in her Terminator vision. Human Blood: Male Really? Damn, I missed that both times I watched. Okay, that's dumb. The implication that Cameron can detect Barr Bodies in blood with the, uh, naked eye - electronic or not - is needlessly complicated when it's perfectly sensible for the Killer Robot to follow the blood trail because it's blood. Tsk.
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Paloma
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Post by Paloma on Sept 10, 2008 14:28:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I'm just reading my own preference for AI free will into the situation. I almost certainly am. But if Cameron does have that ability to choose whether to follow her programming or not and to think about it and around it, they can go so very far with her now, in all kinds of ways. I agree, and I have faith that the show will go very far with her in all kinds of ways. They haven't disappointed yet. *is excited, whatever happens* Fantastic episode! I completely agree. The Cameron sandwich scene in particular was amazing, I've watched it over again multiple times.
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Post by vicheron on Sept 10, 2008 14:32:36 GMT -5
She detects the blood is male before she bends down to look at it, so as I said before, perhaps she can track by scent. Of course, that would open up other questions.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 10, 2008 15:01:33 GMT -5
I think it was a visual detection of the blood being male. If there's some way to determine whether blood is male or female under a microscope I can believe Cameron would be able to tell visually. Short of that, yeah, it's dumb, but I'm willing to not care since the episode was so awesome -- A little late since there has already been some screen capping done, but FOX just released 2 cool shots from the ep: They're now in Samson & Delilah gallery
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Post by Ronnie on Sept 10, 2008 15:06:20 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Derek asking Sarah "Did he see everything?", then replying with "Damn".
My thoughts were seeing her kill Sarkissian. It has been stated in the Podcast that it wasn't John, and obviously he saw everything with the whole Cameron situation.
Why would Derek be concerned about John seeing someone killed? Derek seems to be the most trigger-happy of the bunch, and I would think that he would hope such an event would further harden the Future Leader. What use would it be to keep his childhood innocence intact?
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Sept 10, 2008 15:07:47 GMT -5
I have over 100 Caps...so far...almost done taking them...and the of course I'll have to crop them.
Then I'll zip em up and Megaupload them so I can send the link to someon who can add them to the boards.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 10, 2008 15:08:11 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Derek asking Sarah "Did he see everything?", then replying with "Damn". My thoughts were seeing her kill Sarkissian. It has been stated in the Podcast that it wasn't John, and obviously he saw everything with the whole Cameron situation. Why would Derek be concerned about John seeing someone killed? Derek seems to be the most trigger-happy of the bunch, and I would think that he would hope such an event would further harden the Future Leader. What use would it be to keep his childhood innocence intact? I had to think about that one as well since it seemed an odd thing for Derek to say. I've come to the conclusion that Sarah had already filled Derek in on what happened and whatever it was, it must have been a lot worse for John to see than having a guy get a bullet through his head right next to you.
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cyadon
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Post by cyadon on Sept 10, 2008 15:13:33 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Derek asking Sarah "Did he see everything?", then replying with "Damn". My thoughts were seeing her kill Sarkissian. It has been stated in the Podcast that it wasn't John, and obviously he saw everything with the whole Cameron situation. Why would Derek be concerned about John seeing someone killed? Derek seems to be the most trigger-happy of the bunch, and I would think that he would hope such an event would further harden the Future Leader. What use would it be to keep his childhood innocence intact? I had to think about that one as well since it seemed an odd thing for Derek to say. I've come to the conclusion that Sarah had already filled Derek in on what happened and whatever it was, it must have been a lot worse than having a guy get a bullet through his head right next to you. Well, I'm hoping we'll get to see what it was in the next couple of episodes. Oh, btw... unrelated idea... Catherine Weaver action figure -- Silver Play-Doh!
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Post by allergygal on Sept 10, 2008 15:19:30 GMT -5
Well, I'm hoping we'll get to see what it was in the next couple of episodes. Me too. Dear writers, Please please please don't make us wonder about this one all season. Sincerely, Everyone LOL. I really do want to make a Catherine Weaver figure. Need to find some more female GI Joe body parts.
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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 15:23:46 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Derek asking Sarah "Did he see everything?", then replying with "Damn". My thoughts were seeing her kill Sarkissian. It has been stated in the Podcast that it wasn't John, and obviously he saw everything with the whole Cameron situation. Why would Derek be concerned about John seeing someone killed? Derek seems to be the most trigger-happy of the bunch, and I would think that he would hope such an event would further harden the Future Leader. What use would it be to keep his childhood innocence intact? I had to think about that one as well since it seemed an odd thing for Derek to say. I've come to the conclusion that Sarah had already filled Derek in on what happened and whatever it was, it must have been a lot worse for John to see than having a guy get a bullet through his head right next to you. Uhhh...I don't think this was the case. I distinctly got the impression that Derek made assumptions of what went down in the house. He seemed to assume that Sarah killed Sarkissian and was upset that John saw it all. If you watch Sarah carefully - she seems to be biting her tongue and doesn't contradict what he said, but she clearly looks like she's hiding something. I think John killed Sarkissian and Sarah's covering for him. This really explains why Sarah is completely distraught throughout the episode and is desperate to get through to him. FYI - HD screencaps are now fully loaded and up in the Gallery. Click here to access them!
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Post by allergygal on Sept 10, 2008 15:30:08 GMT -5
I had to think about that one as well since it seemed an odd thing for Derek to say. I've come to the conclusion that Sarah had already filled Derek in on what happened and whatever it was, it must have been a lot worse for John to see than having a guy get a bullet through his head right next to you. Uhhh...I don't think this was the case. I distinctly got the impression that Derek made assumptions of what went down in the house. He seemed to assume that Sarah killed Sarkissian and was upset that John saw it all. If you watch Sarah carefully - she seems to be biting her tongue and doesn't contradict what he said, but she clearly looks like she's hiding something. I think John killed Sarkissian and Sarah's covering for him. This really explains why Sarah is completely distraught throughout the episode and is desperate to get through to him. I watched the scene several times and I didn't sense Sarah hiding anything. If Derek was going to assume anything it would have made more sense to assume Cameron killed him. He'd just come to the realization earlier that same day that Sarah had never killed anyone before, so it wouldn't make sense for him to jump to the conclusion Sarah killed Sarkissian. And if she didn't kill him (let's say John did and she was covering for him) why not just say Cameron did it? I'm convinced Sarah killed Sarkissian and John was traumatized by what he saw.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 10, 2008 15:33:49 GMT -5
It also makes the second guy in as many days who's been killed in front of John. Derek's just back from an afternoon watching the Reese boys frolic - he may have had a sense of how traumatizing watching someone die can be. Transitory, I assume, but still.
And he may have been trying to mark his territory in front of Charley (see? My Nephew. MINE. I Will COMFORT Him. NOT YOU. ME. And STAY AWAY FROM SARAH. MY sort-of-sister-in-law. MINE. NOT YOURS).
ETA: also, wouldn't Sarah be just as freaked out at killing someone?
We know tht the deaths she's indirectly responsible for weigh heavily on her. Surely to take a life herself, no matter the reason, would be just as devastating, which would explain her "I know you need more from me today" speech to John. In that scene, she seems to be admitting that she doesn't have the resources to comfort him, whatever happened, it's affected Sarah to the extent that she can't bury it for John's sake.
Given that putting John's needs ahead of everything except his physical safety is literally Sarah's self-imposed reason for living, that says something about what happened upstairs. Since, on reflection, I'd really rather not see sexual violence turn up as a trope on TSCC, I'm going to stick to the Sarah killed him and John watched it happen side of the ledger.
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alexina
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Post by alexina on Sept 10, 2008 22:54:25 GMT -5
What do you guys think of Derek asking Sarah "Did he see everything?", then replying with "Damn". My thoughts were seeing her kill Sarkissian. It has been stated in the Podcast that it wasn't John, and obviously he saw everything with the whole Cameron situation. Why would Derek be concerned about John seeing someone killed? Derek seems to be the most trigger-happy of the bunch, and I would think that he would hope such an event would further harden the Future Leader. What use would it be to keep his childhood innocence intact? Did they say that? Really? Hmmm...I assumed it was John that killed Sarkissian. Well, you know those writers...they're tricky like that. Little devils. I still think John killed the guy. I mean, I could see it going the other way.... John sees his mother kill someone, something he couldn't prevent. This coming after the little chat at the park with Uncle Derek about Sarah "having a pure heart", etc. So, it would've been traumatizing to watch his pure-heart mother kill a man right in front of him...and we don't know how she would have killed him. Snap of the neck? Garrotting? Snuffication (oh, I love made up words)? All the above? Well, whatever it was, it would've had to have been pretty disturbing. John's at least seen a classmate jump off the side of a building, and not-Sarkissian was shot two inches from his face by Derek (and they go out for ice cream later!). I agree with Erika and k8ie. Throughout the whole episode, Sarah was desperate to get through to John, and we would've seen Sarah acting way more freaked than usual. Well, I guess she was acting pretty wired-up, but it was for different reasons (i.e. - Cameron was hunting them). Besides, you'd think it'd be the other way around if Sarah had killed Sarkissian; that John would be trying to reach out to his mother to comfort her, not Sarah to John. As a side note, was that little girl in the s1 finale Sarkissian's? I figured it was, but I don't think it was confirmed or anything. If that's really the case, then John would have killed her father...something that would tear him up even more inside.
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Post by theturk on Sept 10, 2008 23:42:57 GMT -5
One of the things I'm most gratified by in the responses to the episode I've seen online is that, whatever happened in the attic and whoever killed Sarkissian, people recognize that it's a big deal and a major trauma for John and Sarah. I was really worried that we've seen people kill other people enough in television land to expect characters to simply shrug it off and move on. So again, it's good to see the audience recognize that killing a human being, even when justified or necessary, is a horrible, horrible thing.
(ah, but Derek doesn't think so, I can see some of you replying. Again, stay tuned. We'll have more to say about Derek and his attitudes toward taking life in future episodes.)
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