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Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 19, 2008 5:44:15 GMT -5
The problem with Jesse referring to Weaver is the line "I'm here to save him". Who would the "him" be in Weaver's case? I find it hard to believe it's Ellison - although that wouldn't be too unlikely,
But if that's the case, why is Jesse being secretive about it? Why not reveal her mission to Derek?
And stopping Weaver wouldn't necessarily directly be related to saving John, although obviously Weaver would want to kill John like any other Terminator, presumably. But the connection isn't direct.
Of course, the connection could be made direct if Ellison reveals what he knows about the Connors to Weaver. In that sense, Ellison will end up "doing the devil's work" as Cromartie said he would by leading Weaver to the Connors.
And I think this may occur because Ellison is likely to reveal to Weaver the existence of Cameron as the Connor's protector - which will certainly start Weaver looking for Cameron and end up with Weaver confronting the Connors.
There's got to be some fallout from the confrontation John and Cameron had with Ellison this last episode. Ellison directly lied to John, who bought it.
Considering that Jesse is one of those Resistance fighters - like Derek - who are "upset - as Cameron put it in episode 2 - that future John is using reprogrammed Terminators - she made a point of mentioning it to Derek the first time they met - I suspect she's come back to eliminate Cameron and that this is not authorized by future John at all.
That would be an interesting and ironic turn of events - Cameron comes back without authorization for her own reasons - and runs into a Resistance fighter who's done the exact same thing.
Just can't get away from these pesky humans! ;D
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 19, 2008 6:14:12 GMT -5
I think that's not what Cameron meant. If she was warning him about becoming close to her she wouldn't be trying to win him over as she has these past two episodes. I think she's just alluding to his importance and the idea he can't afford to risk his life.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 19, 2008 12:16:14 GMT -5
Jesse is working for Skynet, I just know it.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 19, 2008 14:55:07 GMT -5
In broad strokes, "Complications," "One-Two Point," and "Earthlings Welcome Here" are very tightly linked together, storywise, while "Self Made Man" and "Alpine Fields" are less so. So it's easier to move the latter two episodes around, and there are certain things in "Self Made Man" which make more sense when they play after "One Two Point" instead of before. You'll know them when you see them... Then I'm very glad the original broadcast order has been restored. Thanks, and congratulations with a very strong second season, so far!
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Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 19, 2008 18:27:38 GMT -5
If she was warning him about becoming close to her she wouldn't be trying to win him over as she has these past two episodes. No - the one has nothing to do with the other. She has her agenda and it requires him to see her as indispensable. What she was telling him was to keep it a secret because others in the future would be upset. That he would risk his life for a Terminator obviously would upset his future Resistance because of his importance - but why would he do that AT ALL unless there was a connection? And it's incredibly clear by now that Cameron IS trying to get him close to her. And as you say she wouldn't be doing that if she really believed that it would be a threat to him more significant than his importance to her. Which means her agenda is more important even than the threat that others will be upset. And it's quite clear that Jesse is one of those who are upset because she explicitly brought up the problem of Terminators going bad the very first time she met Derek in the present. One thing I think Zack ought to do is give us a nod as to whether we'll ever see any more about Derek's time in the interrogation house. That was a key mystery of season one, and I'd like to know if that's been dropped like some of the other elements of season one. Because clearly Derek's time being brainwashed by Fischer has some kind of connection to that event in "D&D".
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Post by allergygal on Nov 20, 2008 2:53:48 GMT -5
If she was warning him about becoming close to her she wouldn't be trying to win him over as she has these past two episodes. No - the one has nothing to do with the other. She has her agenda and it requires him to see her as indispensable. What she was telling him was to keep it a secret because others in the future would be upset. That he would risk his life for a Terminator obviously would upset his future Resistance because of his importance - but why would he do that AT ALL unless there was a connection? And it's incredibly clear by now that Cameron IS trying to get him close to her. And as you say she wouldn't be doing that if she really believed that it would be a threat to him more significant than his importance to her. Which means her agenda is more important even than the threat that others will be upset. And it's quite clear that Jesse is one of those who are upset because she explicitly brought up the problem of Terminators going bad the very first time she met Derek in the present. One thing I think Zack ought to do is give us a nod as to whether we'll ever see any more about Derek's time in the interrogation house. That was a key mystery of season one, and I'd like to know if that's been dropped like some of the other elements of season one. Because clearly Derek's time being brainwashed by Fischer has some kind of connection to that event in "D&D". I'm with you on the Jesse thing. I think she's there to change John somehow so Future!John isn't into using machines in the resistance. John's had bad experiences with machines trying to kill him, of course, but he has that added experience of Uncle Bob and Cameron being his protectors (and bonding with them). So getting him away from Cameron is likely Jesse's mission. If Derek didn't actually experience Fischer's torture, then it can't relate to his experience in the creepy basement from D&D. Or do you think Derek did know Fischer and really had blocked it?
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 20, 2008 4:04:17 GMT -5
I think that regardless of whether or not Jessie isthere to stop John from getting close to cameron if thing in the future are going as badly as they seem to be.
Future John may have No other option but to use reprogrammed Terminators.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 20, 2008 11:21:20 GMT -5
Is the future war going badly? All we know is that Jesse is very unhappy because a terminator turned on her bunker. But we knew this happens since season 1.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 20, 2008 11:43:25 GMT -5
Is the future war going badly? All we know is that Jesse is very unhappy because a terminator turned on her bunker. But we knew this happens since season 1. My take is that Derek killing Andy has changed Future War for the worse. We've no proof but Bloody Wall of Exposition Guy is shot as he's going back in time. We assume that he's sent by a friendly, either John, Sarah, Cameron or our Derek from the future because he has the location of Camp Connor 2. But unlike Kyle, Uncle Bob, Derek & his squad and Cameron, BWoE Guy seems like a major "Hail Mary" pass from the Resistance, sent back while the Resistance headquarters itself was under attack given that he's shot right as he's transitting through time. Until BWoE Guy, however much sending the others back was a strategy of desperation, the "bubble room" itself had always seemed to be in a safe location. Now it's possible that Future!John, assuming he's still in charge, has been overrun in the future. Now, given that Jesse allegedly snuck back in time with the help of a friendly "bubble tech" (I do love the Future!Jargon they're coming up with in the writer's room), assuming that part of her story is true, it would mean that Jesse came through before BWoE guy so she's potentially part of what's mucking up Future!War so bad.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 20, 2008 11:56:10 GMT -5
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Post by allergygal on Nov 20, 2008 12:50:01 GMT -5
I'm thinking Cameron is looking for Cromartie's body buried in Ellison's yard in that first one. Second one seems like John is back to being his angry self again.
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Post by aceplace57 on Nov 20, 2008 13:00:35 GMT -5
The second clip bugged me. Derek has a lot of gall talking about Sarah. His girlfriend just kidnapped a middle-aged bald dude and beat the crap out of him. Derek didn't question Jesse's sanity. He even stood by and let her kidnap someone else. He didn't know she was right until the very end.
Sarah must have noticed the three dots the first time she saw the wall. It didn't seem to mean anything and the memory was tucked away in her subconscious. The dreams were triggered by that suppressed memory. Sarah thought about the dreams and eventually remembered the wall. I think that's smart. Why call her crazy?
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 20, 2008 13:04:30 GMT -5
Derek just has a lot of gall. Dude, I so hope Jesse's really evil because, dude, check your own BS.
OTOH, yes, Sarah is crazy - being hunted by a killer machine from the future, losing your entire family and being left pregnant with the future saviour of the human race at 17 (or 19 depending) will do that to a girl.
But paragon of emotional stability and mental health Derek Reese assuredly is not!
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 20, 2008 13:11:41 GMT -5
Because it seems like things get a little more crazy over this three dots business.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 20, 2008 13:27:48 GMT -5
And Derek's a jerk.
Although, from the clip, he does seem somewhat genuinely concerned that Sarah's losing it - from his perspective and given his personal experience and what he currently believes about Sarkissian, he may think that Sarah's in the middle of a breakdown. Derek's default seems to be to assume that Sarah is weaker than she is - whether that's because she's not what he expected from the stories or because he didn't believe the stories or because he feels a need to protect her for Kyle's sake.
He doesn't know that batass crazy has been Sarah's default setting for going on six years or 17 years (personally, I like to think that Pescadero is what pushed Sarah over into actively crazy but that is a discussion for another thread).
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