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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 15:37:25 GMT -5
So who do you think Killed Sarkissian in Samson and Delilah and why?
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 10, 2008 16:07:02 GMT -5
Josh already said it was Sarah, right? If they're smart, they'll change it and say John did it.
Here's to hoping so, anyway.
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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 16:48:05 GMT -5
I don't know I haven't read everything that come out recently but I haven't heard any confirmation on who killed him. There are these photos that were from one of the early promos that aired in the summer that support that John might've done it - but the scene was cut from the ep when it aired. Remember John was furiously fighting to get his restraints off while Sarkissian was beating on Sarah. He would've had the jump on him. So either John did it - or he knocked Sarkissian out, released his mother and she killed him.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 10, 2008 17:02:10 GMT -5
Wow, I completely forgot about that from the promos.
I'm really hoping it was John.
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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 17:07:28 GMT -5
Josh also kept stressing that there was something MAJOR that happens with John in the premiere that leaves him w/ PTS. Seeing his mother kill Sarkissian would've been bad - but he would've been shell-shocked if he did the deed himself. Check out these caps from the episode - John saved his mother...you don't have that sort of rage building and not have consequences happen.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 10, 2008 17:21:21 GMT -5
Josh also kept stressing that there was something MAJOR that happens with John in the premiere that leaves him w/ PTS. Seeing his mother kill Sarkissian would've been bad - but he would've been shell-shocked if he did the deed himself. Check out these caps from the episode - John saved his mother...you don't have that sort of rage building and not have consequences happen. Agreed on all accounts. I'll be really disappointed if Josh decides to go with Sarah being the one that killed him. Edit: What if Sarkissian tried raping Sarah?
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Post by jen22 on Sept 10, 2008 17:54:20 GMT -5
For me there was never any doubt that John did it. Just from what they choose to show the scene and how it was all played out I thought it was John. Not to mention the aftermath and how John behaved.
Don't even remember that part from the early promos. Thanks for bringing that into the discussion Erika.
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Post by amelie on Sept 10, 2008 17:55:35 GMT -5
I think it was John. It was so stressfull and he wanted to help his mother... Maybe it was an accident... but I think it was him and the caps help me more and more believe that!
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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 19:19:13 GMT -5
Don't even remember that part from the early promos. Thanks for bringing that into the discussion Erika. No problem Jana I just think that if Sarah had killed him, they would've focused on her raging. Sarah killing a guy would've been shocking, but John doing it as a teenager would be a devastating blow for Sarah who's been trying to protect him from the horrors of the future as much as possible. There's no turning back now.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Sept 10, 2008 19:57:50 GMT -5
John.
The looks from Mom just before Cam kicks open the door were all I needed.
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Post by Erika on Sept 10, 2008 20:04:36 GMT -5
You'll also note that John's got blood splatter all over his shirt when they're sitting on the floor - it wasn't there in the photos before.
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Post by Derek Reese on Sept 10, 2008 20:17:36 GMT -5
John. The looks from Mom just before Cam kicks open the door were all I needed. That's what I was thinking as well.
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Post by vicheron on Sept 11, 2008 1:13:51 GMT -5
You'll also note that John's got blood splatter all over his shirt when they're sitting on the floor - it wasn't there in the photos before. I wonder where that blood came from. When we see Sarkissian, there's no blood on the parts of the body that are visible. Now of course, Sarah and John are in front of the body so we don't see his stomach or his forehead but there's also no blood on the ground. Sarah and John didn't seem to have many injuries when we see them after Sarkissian's death. Neither of them were bleeding They didn't injured until after they jumped out of the window and got in the car crash, because they weren't wearing seat belts and the car didn't have air bags. Maybe John should recruit Ralph Nader to be one of lieutenants in the Resistance. It's also interesting how their positions changed quite a bit between the scene where Sarkissian beats Sarah and when it's revealed that Sarkissian is dead. In the scene where Sarkissian is beating up Sarah, John was on the left side of the room, Sarah and Sarkissian were on the right side of the room. However, in the scene where we see that Sarkissian is dead, John is on the right side of the room and Sarah was on the left side. Sarkissian's body is in the center of the room lying face up pointing towards the right side of the room which would suggests that he died facing the left of the room. That could mean that John was behind Sarkissian when he died.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 11, 2008 3:52:06 GMT -5
If we follow the logic from Derek's line in the warehouse, "So I'm guessing Sarkissian didn't tell you where he sold the Turk before you killed him?" we're left with 3 possibilities:
1) Derek jumped to conclusions and assumed Sarah killed Sarkissian (and she didn't correct him). 2) John killed Sarkissian but Sarah lied and told Derek she did it. 3) Sarah killed Sarkissian and told Derek about it.
Option 1: Derek assumed.
Earlier that same day, in the park with John, Derek came to the realization that Sarah had never killed anyone before. Jump forward a few hours, Derek arrives on the scene of the burning house, 2 dead guys and no sign of John, Sarah or Cameron. What would be his assumption? Certainly not that Sarah had killed anyone. He most likely would have assumed that Cameron killed the men (remember, he knew nothing of Cameron going bad).
That all becomes irrelevant, though, once Derek is at the warehouse with Sarah and John. We know they've all been together for a little while because John's already been patched up by Charley, and Sarah is almost done being patched up. And more obviously, Derek checks out Cameron and doesn't ask any questions. He's already been told of the day's events. That rules out option 1 all together. He's not making assumptions at all; he comments on what he's been told. That leaves us with option 2 or 3.
Option 2: Sarah lied to cover for John.
We don't know exactly what happened, but we can make a reasonable assumption that Sarkissian was killed in defense of self and family. Derek and Charley would surely understand if John killed Sarkisian in self-defense or to save his mom. Only the night before, Derek killed a man who held John at gunpoint. Charley cares very much about Sarah and John. He loved them both and maybe still does. At the very least, he still cares about their safety. So Sarah would have no reason to lie if John did it, and that leaves us with option 3.
Option 3: Sarah killed Sarkissian.
Derek: "So I'm guessing Sarkissian didn't tell you where he sold the Turk before you killed him?" Sarah: "Wasn't that kind of conversation." Derek: "Did he see it all?" Sarah: "He saw it all."
Sarah killed Sarkissian and John saw it happen. He's traumatized by seeing his mom ("There was a time I was a hero to my son. He thought I walked on water.") take a life right in front of him. The way it was referred to as seeing "it all" implies that it wasn't as quick as Sarah grabbing Sarkissian's gun and shooting him or whacking him over the head with something.
My guess as to what happened: John cut himself free while Sarkissian was choking/beating Sarah, then kicked him in the head and pulled him off her. That made Sarkissian turn his attention to fighting John. Sarah then slipped her arms to her front, came up behind Sarkissian and choked him to death with her cuffed hands. Not easy and not fast and John would have been right in front of him seeing him die at his mother's hands. That would be traumatic.
In season 1, we had a thematic build about the value of human life in Sarah's story. There was her guilt about Miles Dyson, her struggle about whether or not to kill Andy and her devastation when Andy was killed. She saved Ellison's life in the fire. She stopped Derek from killing the cops in the tunnel. She insisted that they go hunt the woods for a dead woman's body (telling Cameron she couldn't understand because "you don't value human life"). We also had Derek coming to the realization that Sarah had never killed anyone before (the same day Sarkissian is killed). The theme didn't have to bring us to her killing someone, but given the circumstances, it fits. Sarah's purpose is John. She's spent her life largely off the grid and on the run to keep him safe. She would do anything to protect him, even take her own life if need be. And if she were ever going to take another human's life, protecting her son would be the reason.
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cyadon
Major
A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Sept 11, 2008 11:53:25 GMT -5
I definitely voted Sarah on this. And allerygal gave every reason I had, only in a far more eloquent manner than I would have given.
I can also see the scene playing out exactly as she describes and that would work for everything.
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