rossbondreturns
Corporal
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Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Sept 30, 2008 11:15:43 GMT -5
I notice people are saying that Cameron was unsuccessful in killing John...that is true to a point.
But is not actually true.
What would be a better time to Kill John...when he has lead the humans in a battle against Skynet?
Or before that battle?
She is right now, in this time, in the perfect place to complete her mission to the best effect.
She has warned John not to fix her again, that he can no longer be trusted, she practically pushes him through the wall at the Halfway house.
All of these are hints.
Also when you have the Connors not to mention Derek treating he like a glorified errand girl. Disrespect her, (you do realize she can hear you even when she's across the room right). And generally treat her like dirt.
Let's just say I don't think she had chip damage...I think she used the explosion as a convenient cover to muddle her own programming to reinstate her kill John Connor protocol.
She is using humans natural disgust and scorn as a weapon so to speak, and is setting all of them up.
There is no way that John is going to be able to fix her programming, since it was never broken in the first place. What happened last night was I believe a final and irrevocable shift- she is back on mission.
Her original mission.
And killing John now would have exceptionally long lasting consequences.
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Post by rove3 on Sept 30, 2008 11:23:46 GMT -5
Maybe necessary but that's plenty cold considering what Sarah herself has been through. That sort of thing kinda beats violence. I know. I could understand if the father was a dick (which btw is what the writer wanted him to be but Josh wouldn't have it). But this guy is a nice guy who deserves to be part of his child's life. Sarah knows how hard it is to do this alone. She knows how much it pains John not having a father in his life. This is probably one of the most cruel things Sarah has ever done IMO. I agree. The Connors can always move to another house. She doesn't have to sink a fledgling family or prey on a pregnant woman's doubts. I didn't like that at all.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 30, 2008 11:41:17 GMT -5
I notice people are saying that Cameron was unsuccessful in killing John...that is true to a point. But is not actually true. What would be a better time to Kill John...when he has lead the humans in a battle against Skynet? Or before that battle? She is right now, in this time, in the perfect place to complete her mission to the best effect. She has warned John not to fix her again, that he can no longer be trusted, she practically pushes him through the wall at the Halfway house. All of these are hints. Also when you have the Connors not to mention Derek treating he like a glorified errand girl. Disrespect her, (you do realize she can hear you even when she's across the room right). And generally treat her like dirt. Let's just say I don't think she had chip damage...I think she used the explosion as a convenient cover to muddle her own programming to reinstate her kill John Connor protocol. She is using humans natural disgust and scorn as a weapon so to speak, and is setting all of them up. There is no way that John is going to be able to fix her programming, since it was never broken in the first place. What happened last night was I believe a final and irrevocable shift- she is back on mission. Her original mission. And killing John now would have exceptionally long lasting consequences. This is by far, the best post I've ever read from you. I think you might be right and it might actually confirm fears of fans that Cameron COULD get the axe. However, how do you explain sending Cameron to intercept Cromartie? Don't see any issue with Allison's age in general either. Considering the circumstances of the world that Allison came from in the first place. Haha, John's robbing the cradle. EDIT: Whoa, I was just thinking... what if Cameron brought of the Wizard of Oz story in the first season due to that being Alison's memory? What about the "diamonds are a girl's best friend" phrase as well? This really is starting to look like Alison was John's lover in the future. Anything less would be a severe letdown, it would also even explain why teen-John has such an attraction towards her. The Writers could really capitalize on this. But, if it turns out to be some father/daughter type thing or "good friends", I'll be severely dissapointed
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Post by Erika on Sept 30, 2008 12:01:52 GMT -5
Haha, John's robbing the cradle.
EDIT: Whoa, I was just thinking... what if Cameron brought of the Wizard of Oz story in the first season due to that being Alison's memory? What about the "diamonds are a girl's best friend" phrase as well? This really is starting to look like Alison was John's lover in the future. Anything less would be a severe letdown, it would also even explain why teen-John has such an attraction towards her. The Writers could really capitalize on this. But, if it turns out to be some father/daughter type thing or "good friends", I'll be severely dissapointed
Or is it the whole chicken and the egg thing? *Let's do the Time Warp again!*
John seeks out Alison to make sure that she's one of his trusted camp & confidants, because he knows that the machines will make an infiltrator to look like her, thereby providing him w/ the proper Terminator to send back in time to protect him when he's younger?
What if this current time-line exists because that this has all played out before and there was a new AU future where all of this had happened before (and will happen again)? (Sorry had to make a BSG reference.)
In that future John would've known that Cameron had protected him when he was younger...at all costs. If that was the case, it would appear that she was successful at her mission because at least John survived past Judgment Day.
Alison's mother hadn't even thought of naming her child Alison until they called her - that's a timestamp that things that are happening in this timeline seem to directly correlate to what happened in the future.
Perhaps Cameron's memory "malfunction" here is more a matter of her learning - learning to distinguish right from wrong and overriding her programming.
In the future she snapped Alison's neck w/o a second thought, she didn't kill Jodie though.
Had she killed the girl - we could easily say that she's reverted to her older programming, but she didn't. This is all something far scarier...she's evolving.
All of this could end up being the ultimate mind screw w/ poor Derek if HE was actually the one who had been involved w/ Alison in the first place. That would explain his vehement hatred and coldness towards Cameron.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Sept 30, 2008 12:05:00 GMT -5
I notice people are saying that Cameron was unsuccessful in killing John...that is true to a point. But is not actually true. What would be a better time to Kill John...when he has lead the humans in a battle against Skynet? Or before that battle? She is right now, in this time, in the perfect place to complete her mission to the best effect. She has warned John not to fix her again, that he can no longer be trusted, she practically pushes him through the wall at the Halfway house. All of these are hints. Also when you have the Connors not to mention Derek treating he like a glorified errand girl. Disrespect her, (you do realize she can hear you even when she's across the room right). And generally treat her like dirt. Let's just say I don't think she had chip damage...I think she used the explosion as a convenient cover to muddle her own programming to reinstate her kill John Connor protocol. She is using humans natural disgust and scorn as a weapon so to speak, and is setting all of them up. There is no way that John is going to be able to fix her programming, since it was never broken in the first place. What happened last night was I believe a final and irrevocable shift- she is back on mission. Her original mission. And killing John now would have exceptionally long lasting consequences. This is by far, the best post I've ever read from you. I think you might be right and it might actually confirm fears of fans that Cameron COULD get the axe. However, how do you explain sending Cameron to intercept Cromartie? Once again we are assuming she was sent to intercept Cromartie. And she did a bad job at that of intercepting him...great plan Cam getting shot. Of course Johns Programming is one of Protect me in the past from any attack. It's not about protection from just Cromartie, but from anyone who might wish to kill him or anything. However as with any reprogramming there is always the chance that Skynet hides key and important infiltration files in the impenetrable depth of the NNP. It is even possible that there would be dummy programming that comes to the foreground during such a reprogramming process to get wiped out in stead of the actual Mission Programming. Or to raise it up a notch further...Cameron hid her own mission programming so it would not be wiped. So John give Cameron this Protect me in the past programming thinking he's erased Skynets programming. However this program is there, the entire time waiting for a time to be released so it can be continued. When the explosion happens Cameron scrambles her own programming. Some (Memory/Program) is triggered. And her Original Programming is put once again front and center. She's not looking back. When she panics and says: "I Love You John Connor. I Love You and You Love Me!!" She isn't just yelling she's accessed another Memory/Program of Allison and is using that knowledge to gain an advantage. It doesn't work but even John realizes he can't fix her. Cameron knows this too, and she's betting that John will reinstate her because she has gained his trust. That and he's coming into his own. And he does. John treats her with the trust she deserves and because of that she...lets him live...by going against Skynets programming that she reinstated. Why? Because she wants to see if he really has changed and does respect her. Clearly the answer is no. And once again it is clear that John cannot fix her. Because if John shuts her down Sarah will have her Thermited. Oh and there's nothing to be fixed. In my mind what it boils down to is this. I'm not saying Cameron dies.I am saying That Cameron is one of the main reasons that this show is called Sarah Connor Chronicles. Whether or not I'm right....I don't care until proven other wise it is a worthwhile speculation. Or to put it more clearly. I've never considered the Connor's safe from the Comic-Con death threat.
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Post by aceplace57 on Sept 30, 2008 12:05:50 GMT -5
I'll be very curious to see if Cameron continues wearing Jody's necklace.
Cameron studied Jody and she imprinted parts of Jody's personality. When asked about the necklace, Jody would normally say she got it at a thrift shop. Cameron had to force the truth out of her (she stole it from her parents).
So, when John asks Cameron about the necklace, she answers like Jody. "I got it at a thrift shop." Cameron isn't making up a lie. She's in character.
However, based on Josh's dvd commentary I doubt the necklace will last very long. John and Sarah had necklaces in several S1 episodes. Josh was really bugged when the necklace twisted or turned in the scene. Josh actually pointed it out during commentary and said they had an extra actor in the scene. ;D Needless to say, the actors lost those accessory's ASAP. It's amazing how some people have such a sharp eye for visual detail. I had seen those episodes several times and never noticed the necklace movement.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 30, 2008 12:08:20 GMT -5
Haha, John's robbing the cradle.
EDIT: Whoa, I was just thinking... what if Cameron brought of the Wizard of Oz story in the first season due to that being Alison's memory? What about the "diamonds are a girl's best friend" phrase as well? This really is starting to look like Alison was John's lover in the future. Anything less would be a severe letdown, it would also even explain why teen-John has such an attraction towards her. The Writers could really capitalize on this. But, if it turns out to be some father/daughter type thing or "good friends", I'll be severely dissapointedOr is it the whole chicken and the egg thing? *Let's do the Time Warp again!* John seeks out Alison to make sure that she's one of his trusted camp & confidants, because he knows that the machines will make an infiltrator to look like her, thereby providing him w/ the proper Terminator to send back in time to protect him when he's younger? What if this current time-line exists because that this has all played out before and there was a new AU future where all of this had happened before (and will happen again)? (Sorry had to make a BSG reference.) In that future John would've known that Cameron had protected him when he was younger...at all costs. If that was the case, it would appear that she was successful at her mission because at least John survived past Judgment Day. Alison's mother hadn't even thought of naming her child Alison until they called her - that's a timestamp that things that are happening in this timeline seem to directly correlate to what happened in the future. Perhaps Cameron's memory "malfunction" here is more a matter of her learning - learning to distinguish right from wrong and overriding her programming. In the future she snapped Alison's neck w/o a second thought, she didn't kill Jodie though. Had she killed the girl - we could easily say that she's reverted to her older programming, but she didn't. This is all something far scarier...she's evolving. All of this could end up being the ultimate mind screw w/ poor Derek if HE was actually the one who had been involved w/ Alison in the first place. That would explain his vehement hatred and coldness towards Cameron. That's also another great theory. But, about the Jodie thing... John did ask her "did you kill her" and Cameron replied with "apparently not", as if she were hoping to. Honestly, I think if it weren't for Cameron knowing that they had to book it out of there, she probably would have tried killing Jodie. Now, while she didn't directly snap her neck, I think she was trying to choke the life out of Jodie. Oh, and was anybody else hoping that Cameron would have killed her? I think that would have taken away Cameron's "innocence" so to speak and I think it would have actually created a good controversy between the show's fans. It would have made this show so much more darker and morbid. Anyway, I really want to know what's going on in John's head now. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I think his connection towards Cameron is completely gone... completely. I think if he had it his way, he'd pull the plug on her right now.
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Post by sabaceanbabe on Sept 30, 2008 12:09:07 GMT -5
I just got finished watching this ep and I frakking LOVED IT! So many questions! Okay, there were a couple of WTF things in there, but I'm okay with that, because there was just so much more to love! I still can't quite process everything!
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 30, 2008 12:11:44 GMT -5
Seriously though, did everyone else go "what the f?!" when Cameron told the counselor she was going to kill John and place his head on a pike.
That was amazing.
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Post by aceplace57 on Sept 30, 2008 12:16:30 GMT -5
Well, that would be the second timeline where John gets killed by a trusted Terminator. A Uncle Bob model kills him in T3. Poor trusting John. He never learns.
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Post by aceplace57 on Sept 30, 2008 12:23:31 GMT -5
Anyway, I really want to know what's going on in John's head now. As I previously mentioned in this thread, I think his connection towards Cameron is completely gone... completely. I think if he had it his way, he'd pull the plug on her right now. I got the opposite feeling about John and Cameron. It seemed like he was back to joking around with her. He even said, "if you're going to kill me, I'd like a head start". Plus he seemed genuinely concerned about finding Cameron without Sarah finding out that she'd flipped out again. Sarah seems like the one that wants to give her a thermite bath. I liked John a lot better in this episode. He was such a total asshole in ep 2 and 3. It's good seeing him almost back to normal.
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Post by gothamite66 on Sept 30, 2008 12:25:23 GMT -5
To start, I think this is one of my favorite episodes to date. It has left my head spinning with "what if's".
I'm curious to what the rest of you guys think of this:
In "The Mousetrap" Cameron tells John "I don't swim". Do you think that is because she is a terminator and hasn't learned to swim or because Allison appears be having some difficulty swimming and is quickly snared my Skynet's net?
Another tidbit I found was funny was that Sarah's new friend Kacy appears to have attended culinary school and was a pastry chef at some point. So, I'm wondering if Sarah is going to learn to cook a few more dished other than pancakes and canned spaghetti sauce. ;d
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Sept 30, 2008 12:27:29 GMT -5
I'm going to disagree. He's been hiding Cameron's transgressions from his mother during the whole episode and likely will not speak of it. He may be mighty pissed but he's still protecting her.
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Post by Erika on Sept 30, 2008 12:27:43 GMT -5
But, about the Jodie thing... John did ask her "did you kill her" and Cameron replied with "apparently not", as if she were hoping to.Either that or it's her being bitchy with him. John and the Connors don't trust her in the slightest after what she did in S&D, of course he's going to be immediately think that she offed the girl and lo and behold, she didn't. It's another sign that John no longer trusts her and is fearful that she will start acting outside of his mission for her, and Cameron is at a loss for trying to regain that trust. Am I saying she didn't mean to kill her? Not necessarily. I just don't know yet. I have a feeling the writers want us to all think she's gone bad when in fact she hasn't. If you think about her "John Connor's head on a spike" line - what do we know about it? We know that A) We didn't actually hear her say that in the Future. B) The Counselor said that she'd have to report if the person said anything that would endanger anyone else. Cameron opting to say that gruesome line gave her the out that she needed to get out of there. She also wanted to get away w/ Jodie - maybe because she didn't WANT to have to deal w/ knowing what her mission had been in the past or what she worried that it might've been. Cameron enjoyed being Allison, even if it was just for a little while. She only realized that she couldn't get away when she realized that Jodie was lying to her and she was stuck w/ having to stay w/ her mission to protect John. The whole ship thing w/ the Terminators caging animals and humans, didn't that just FEEL like it was a weird Noah's Ark reference? It's another Bible/Terminator reference that seems out of the blue w/ Cameron asking about the Resurrection in S&D. Maybe there were some Terminators who DID have faith in their programming...how WEIRD would that be? What do we directly know from the previous episode? Terminator DON'T swim, so why in the HELL would they want to be on a ship in the first place, unless it was to separate themselves from the other Terminators and are true resistance fighters themselves. My head hurts from this episode...but in a good way
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 30, 2008 12:40:26 GMT -5
^^^ My head hurts after reading that post, hahaha. So many scenarios and yet they all make sense. I'm going to disagree. He's been hiding Cameron's transgressions from his mother during the whole episode and likely will not speak of it. He may be mighty pissed but he's still protecting her. Well, of course he's going to try and mask her behavior, but did you not remember what he told her @ the end of the episode in the truck? She said to him "that was my last get out of jail for free card" in which he responded with "you're damn right it was" and he said it with such conviction. He basically just told her "if you go screwed up one more time, that's it. Fin'"
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