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Post by theturk on Sept 30, 2008 19:01:46 GMT -5
Messed up dates in the hospital nursery aside, we're still in late 2007 as of the episode. So Allison Young will be born in mid-2008 and die (if J-Day isn't averted) in 2027. That makes her a 19 year old-- not that I'm committing to any interpretations of who Allison may or may not have had a relationship with in the 2020s...
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Post by allergygal on Sept 30, 2008 19:06:06 GMT -5
Oh goodie.. actual date and age to work with! And here I spent all this time calculating last night's future story as being set in 2023 (well I spent like 3 minutes working on that anyway )
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Post by theturk on Sept 30, 2008 19:17:54 GMT -5
My mental calculation is that Derek was captured sometime in the first half of 2027 in D&D, spent an undetermined amount of time in captivity, and when he came back discovered that reprogrammed Terminators-including Cameron- were now being incorporated into the Resistance. He spent several more months doing missions and seething over his brother's disappearance before bubbling back with Timms, Sayles, and Sumner in late 2027.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 30, 2008 20:17:34 GMT -5
LOL.
I like the way you think, Mr. Turk.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Sept 30, 2008 21:30:42 GMT -5
My mental calculation is that Derek was captured sometime in the first half of 2027 in D&D, spent an undetermined amount of time in captivity, and when he came back discovered that reprogrammed Terminators-including Cameron- were now being incorporated into the Resistance. He spent several more months doing missions and seething over his brother's disappearance before bubbling back with Timms, Sayles, and Sumner in late 2027. That was suppose to be months? It came off more like days, at most maybe weeks, to me. I've always wished there was solid confirmation in the show about how much time the events in D&D took place over.
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Post by Derek Reese on Sept 30, 2008 21:41:14 GMT -5
My mental calculation is that Derek was captured sometime in the first half of 2027 in D&D, spent an undetermined amount of time in captivity, and when he came back discovered that reprogrammed Terminators-including Cameron- were now being incorporated into the Resistance. He spent several more months doing missions and seething over his brother's disappearance before bubbling back with Timms, Sayles, and Sumner in late 2027. That was suppose to be months? It came off more like days, at most maybe weeks, to me. I've always wished there was solid confirmation in the show about how much time the events in D&D took place over. I've wondered the same, Rose and I agree that it felt shorter than months in the episode.
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Post by theturk on Sept 30, 2008 22:25:54 GMT -5
It feels shorter, but it sort of has to be months for things to have changed so much in Derek's absence. In the original draft referenced on the DVD extras, Derek was more explicitly in a work camp where months were clearly passing (the draft featured both an unfilmable jail break and hit the "moral destruction of Derek Reese" beat a lot harder). But in the existing house of horrors version, the surreality of it all helps sell the indeterminate time of captivity. But I digress.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 30, 2008 22:34:37 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought it was only days too, from when Derek got back to the burned out bunker to when he time jumped.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Sept 30, 2008 22:43:52 GMT -5
Allison's captivity was much easier to grasp as being long term since she seemed to have a holding cell and they fed her. In D&D the fighters never seemed to get food or water or go to the bathroom. Plus later the bunker was still on fire when they got back and according to Sumner the place had been attacked four days earlier. We didn't really see any indication that they had been held there for any longer than a week but that's a real stretch without water.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 30, 2008 23:36:37 GMT -5
Has anyone brought up James and his ex-wife yet?
That scene was really interesting.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Oct 1, 2008 1:35:52 GMT -5
I had a very mixed opinion of this episode when I saw it, but when I watched it a second time (and skipped over all the hospital scenes), I loved it. I got more out of it, and the pace never broke.
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Post by Ronnie on Oct 1, 2008 2:54:00 GMT -5
Has anyone brought up James and his ex-wife yet? That scene was really interesting. I mentioned it ....I liked the reveal of Agent Ellison's ex-wife, at first I just thought it was a friend in the Bureau, but then the paperwork was handed to her after hearing the name "Agent Ellison". She noticed how his attitude changed, due to him not wearing his cross. Also, the mention of never seeing him in so much pain, to which he replied "Now you and I both know that's not true"... Ouch. Messy divorce indeed.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Oct 1, 2008 3:11:17 GMT -5
I think that John sort of adopted Allison in the future because she reminds him so much of Cameron. It would be like if you found out your old girlfriend that you really liked had an orphaned kid that might possibly be yours. Your parental instinct would be to take care of the child, and in a sense Allison in the future would represent Cameron's living legacy. When Allison is replaced with Cameron, John sends Cameron back in time to be with his teenage counterpart, thus completing the circle of time.
I've also heard a theory from a few John / Cameron shippers that baby Allison will be orphaned, and John and Cameron will adopt her as their own. How's that for a wild story: Cameron is a copy of Allison; she kills Allison; she travels back in time and feels remorse; she adopts Allison as her own child to atone for her sins. LOL, it's so nuts that it might just work. ;D
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Post by vicheron on Oct 1, 2008 4:11:29 GMT -5
If that's true then that would mean John sent Allison on that mission knowing that she won't be back just like how he sent Kyle Reese back in time knowing that he would be killed by the Terminator.
On the subject of Allison and Derek Reese having a thing, I think it would be far more likely if Allison and Kyle Reese had a romantic relationship since they're so much closer in age. Of course the problem with that idea is that Kyle said in T1 that he had never had that kind of relationship before and there would quite an upheaval if the writers retconned that.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Oct 1, 2008 5:51:13 GMT -5
OK - TheTurk just handed us another bit of info.
By saying Reese was in the interrogation facility - and I believe now that is what it was - for weeks or months, then we have an explanation for how Cameron could have been both there as the interrogator - explaining Reese's recognition of her and hatred of her and also explaining how she ended up by Connor's side when Reese was released. The time span is enough to cover both circumstances.
Clearly, Cameron was the interrogator in the interrogation house. Reese met her there first. Since Reese was connected to Kyle Reese, who in turn was closely connected to Connor, it would be logical that Cameron, created to infiltrate Connor's HQ as Allison Young, would be interested in everything about the Reese brothers.
Discovering that their captive from the "junkyard" was a Reese, the Terminators turned him over to Cameron, as the primary infiltration operative. She interrogated him at approximately the same time (but a different place - the carrier) she was interrogating Allison.
Later, while Reese was still a captive, she attempted her infiltration, failed and was reprogrammed. Then Reese was released and upon return to Connor's new HQ ran into her and reacted as he did.
The only part not explained is why Reese wasn't debriefed on his interrogation on his return. However, this maybe simply is left in the background for us to ponder. His comment about "It's always a game", and WHY his team was released was never explained. It appeared that every other human in the interrogation house was left for dead - except his team. Why?
Personally, if I were John Connor, and a team of mine disappeared and then turned up alive later, and told me they were in an interrogation facility and then were released for no known reason - those boys would be in quarantine and not allowed to come anywhere near me until they were thoroughly debriefed and tested for brainwashing or implants. But there is no suggestion of this in the "D&D" episode. Instead, John accepts Reese into his HQ and even shows him the time chamber and gives him a critical mission in the past.
Very strange, I say.
Another point: I disagree completely that Cameron has any interest in killing John Connor in the present whatsoever. Unless he somehow becomes a threat to her mission, whatever it is, of course. And even in that situation, I think it is clear that unless her mission does NOT depend on Connor's survival - either originally or due to new circumstances - she would be put between a rock and a hard place in deciding to terminate present John. Because I think her "mission" explicitly requires Connor to survive.
She is not here on Skynet's orders. She has not reverted to Skynet Terminator programming. I think that's completely obvious, because unless Josh has radically redesigned the franchise, the primary goal of every Terminator, regardless of other missions, is to terminate John Connor. If Skynet sent her back here to make contact with Connor, it would be to kill him immediately she makes that contact - and that simply has not happened - and I don't believe that will ever happen.
I don't believe Cameron is intended to be killed off this season for anything like that. It would be in my opinion lame beyond belief - and a death knell for the series.
Of course, if the series is expected to be canceled anyway, maybe Josh thinks it doesn't matter and he can use it to tell a better story.
Not a good idea, Josh.
You wil be working on projects in the future, quite probably, and people will remember you killed off one of their favorite characters for no good reason - even if you thought it was a good plot device.
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