k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Oct 31, 2008 13:37:09 GMT -5
Yep, life's a bitch and then there's Maple Leaf hockey (but my boys are at .500 so far this season - speaking of hope springing eternal). ;D And for the record, I love this show. The performances are fantastic, the characterizations fascinate me and, while I have criticisms about the mechanics of unfolding the plot this season, there hasn't been an episode this season that I've stood up from feeling like I've wasted my time or that I didn't enjoy fiercely. And if there hasn't been an episode that played all my fangirl hotspots with quite the deftness of "The Queen's Gambit" (chin-ups! tank tops! jail breaks! flashbacks!), the writing and pacing of the episodes is uniformly tighter. Ultimately, how they hold together as a group is impossible to say until the season is over and they can be considered as a unit. But until they kill Sarah Connor and replace her with Jesse, I'll be here and on my couch and scouring the 'net for silly news and generally enjoying the hell out of myself and the show (despite the occassional appearance to the contrary). So, until the end of the season...
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 7, 2008 15:18:04 GMT -5
So yeah, last Monday's episode was mediocre. I mean, it wasn't terrible, but I bursted into laughter after John got mad @ Mommy and decided to stomp his way upstairs. Seriously, the most frustrating thing with this show is that every character has depth aside from John's. It's almost like they don't know what to do with them. Also, I'm getting sick of Sarah constantly letting people live. She goes on about protecting John at all costs, but she leaves a lone survivor to spill her story to Cromartie. I LOVE contradictions, let me tell ya.
I don't know, I'm not gonna lie or sugarcoat it... this show has been a disappointment this season and I can honestly see why it's been losing viewers. It started out so strong and then just went into filler, so to speak.
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Post by Erika on Nov 7, 2008 15:59:29 GMT -5
Seriously why does everyone want Sarah to become a killer? On this show, Sarah is the embodiment of humanity...Mary if you will. Would you want to see Jesus's mom head out and stick a bullet in someone's head? No.
Sarah was a very simple woman thrown into extraordinary circumstances. Sarah HAS to believe that humans...ALL humans are worth saving, otherwise what the hell has been her purpose in life? She buys heavy artillery to destroy metal, not humans. Sarah is trying to save everyone from Skynet one person at a time.
The kid in the bowling alley? He didn't know what he did was dangerous. Sarah simply underestimated his weakness. It's the illogical workings of the mind that Terminators don't understand and consider to be weaknesses in humans which is why they want to eradicate them.
If Sarah starts blowing people away she's no better than the things that she's fighting.
As for John, I keep thinking about Dungeons and Dragons where his officer laughed at Derek when he said that he was John's friend. "Connor doesn't have any friends."
There's a reason that John sent Cameron back in time to try to save his Mom. Some emotional tragedy happened to John too early in his life that he couldn't escape from after his mother died that turned him into an emotionless, hard leader. Maybe it is the fact that she's willing to hesitate and her willingness to trust humans no matter how pathetic that they might be that is what John needs. She's the great warrior because SARAH never loses sight of the real mission and she feels too much, which is why she's always miserable.
Right now, he's blocking out everyone due to his PTS. Sarah ultimately will be the only one who will be able to get through to him and she will because of her endless depths of compassion for their combined cause.
This season seems boring? Give me a break. "Filler" episodes on this show are chapters in a book, the writers of this show plant plot points in EVERY episode that later get extrapolated on and burst wide open into huge confrontations that move the story along. You have to lay the groundwork down though - if you try just going from one BIG confrontation to the next w/o anything to bridge the stories together, you get a big sloppy mess...case in point HEROES this season. I'm not saying this just because Zack posts and reads here, I'm saying it because as a writer myself, this show when you watch episodes back to back to back plays like a huge novel that I would personally write. What I love is that you never know from week to week what hanging plot-point will suddenly become crucial - like Jody's big mouth, or Kacy sorta recognizing Cromartie because of the news story that she saw on TV about George Lazlo - even though she didn't remember it, she knew that there was something squirrely enough about him to warn the Connors.
Does the show need fewer characters? I'd give that a resounding yes, but more importantly, I think Charley needs to return. Charley is the one character who can heal the void between Sarah and John...I'm not sure why or how exactly, but the show seems somewhat lost without him around without Kyle here, Charleys the closest thing that we have to a father figure and that's still needed in John's life, particularly now that he understands what the stakes are in the fight.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Nov 7, 2008 16:13:11 GMT -5
I agree with you. Letting Sarah kill without a struggle at least actually neglects her character arc in T2. She was put in exactly this position where she thought killing a man would save the world and prevent her son's fate and coming face to face with Dyson she could not do it. So saying that Sarah would do it at all costs is simply wrong.
Though I'd say in regards to John, they should not keep him in this perpetual state of emo teen for much longer and move on at least some. I'm hoping next episode when reality comes crushing down on him once again that we see some change.
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Post by Erika on Nov 7, 2008 16:16:11 GMT -5
Well he's at least finally lashed out against Sarah instead of avoiding her and refusing to talk to her. That's a good start.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Nov 7, 2008 16:32:24 GMT -5
Or Jesus, himself for that matter, because, really the religious metaphors are shifting this season from the 'John as Christ the Savior' of T2 to Sarah as Christ Crucified this season.
John killing Sarkissian puts him out of the running for Christ-imagery, alas, but there are interesting parallels between John and Sarkissian and Simon Peter attacking the Centurion's servant in the Garden of Gethsemane. The difference, the problem for Sarah both as mother and teacher, is that she can't wave her hand and bring the dead back to life.
ITA with Erika's post and i've been saying much the same to Cyadon and Allergygal - what makes Sarah the best fighter isn't her skill with a weapon or how hard she works the heavy bag or even the number of times she'll get back up after you knock her down, it's that Sarah of all the characters never loses sight of what she's fighting for because she never loses sight of who she's fighting for.
There's a reason why Sarah Connor becomes the patron saint/mythic hero of the resistance, why John painted her memory that way and the why, I think, isn't found in how well she works a .12 gauge.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 7, 2008 16:49:43 GMT -5
1.) Seriously why does everyone want Sarah to become a killer? On this show, Sarah is the embodiment of humanity...Mary if you will. Would you want to see Jesus's mom head out and stick a bullet in someone's head? No. Sarah was a very simple woman thrown into extraordinary circumstances. Sarah HAS to believe that humans...ALL humans are worth saving, otherwise what the hell has been her purpose in life? She buys heavy artillery to destroy metal, not humans. Sarah is trying to save everyone from Skynet one person at a time. The kid in the bowling alley? He didn't know what he did was dangerous. Sarah simply underestimated his weakness. It's the illogical workings of the mind that Terminators don't understand and consider to be weaknesses in humans which is why they want to eradicate them. If Sarah starts blowing people away she's no better than the things that she's fighting. 2.) As for John, I keep thinking about Dungeons and Dragons where his officer laughed at Derek when he said that he was John's friend. "Connor doesn't have any friends." There's a reason that John sent Cameron back in time to try to save his Mom. Some emotional tragedy happened to John too early in his life that he couldn't escape from after his mother died that turned him into an emotionless, hard leader. Maybe it is the fact that she's willing to hesitate and her willingness to trust humans no matter how pathetic that they might be that is what John needs. She's the great warrior because SARAH never loses sight of the real mission and she feels too much, which is why she's always miserable. 3.) Right now, he's blocking out everyone due to his PTS. Sarah ultimately will be the only one who will be able to get through to him and she will because of her endless depths of compassion for their combined cause. 4.) This season seems boring? Give me a break. "Filler" episodes on this show are chapters in a book, the writers of this show plant plot points in EVERY episode that later get extrapolated on and burst wide open into huge confrontations that move the story along. You have to lay the groundwork down though - if you try just going from one BIG confrontation to the next w/o anything to bridge the stories together, you get a big sloppy mess...case in point HEROES this season. I'm not saying this just because Zack posts and reads here, I'm saying it because as a writer myself, this show when you watch episodes back to back to back plays like a huge novel that I would personally write. What I love is that you never know from week to week what hanging plot-point will suddenly become crucial - like Jody's big mouth, or Kacy sorta recognizing Cromartie because of the news story that she saw on TV about George Lazlo - even though she didn't remember it, she knew that there was something squirrely enough about him to warn the Connors. 5.) Does the show need fewer characters? I'd give that a resounding yes, but more importantly, I think Charley needs to return. Charley is the one character who can heal the void between Sarah and John...I'm not sure why or how exactly, but the show seems somewhat lost without him around without Kyle here, Charleys the closest thing that we have to a father figure and that's still needed in John's life, particularly now that he understands what the stakes are in the fight. 1.) Where in my post did I say I want Sarah to become a killer? I just pointed out how big of a contradiction it was to have her say she's going to protect John at all costs, but when it comes to a very crucial situation (where she almost has to kill that woman in order to hide John's connection from this) she just lets her slide. Sarah of all people should know that Cromartie could easily track this back to the Connor's, especially after how easy it was for him to tap their phones in "The Mousetrap." This is why it was actually awesome to see Cameron straight up blast those kids. She knows how to get the job done. 2.) I don't really know what to say to this as it's only speculation you're throwing out there, really. I mean, that could end up playing a part in the reason why John is so emotionless, but that's not what I'm trying to get at in any of these posts. It remains to be seen as to why John truly sent Cameron back. This is a whole different discussion, really. 3.) I find it funny they're trying to play this whole PTS plot with John when Thomas himself can't even nail that portion of his character down. Now, that's not a knock on Thomas, as I'm one of the few people who enjoys his portrayal of John (I blame the writers for their lack of creativity). What John is going through isn't believable as PTS, he comes off like an emo-teeny bopper that gets pissed at his parents when they ask him to take the garbage out. Now, I know that he's going through legitamite emotional damage, but it's just not being broadened in terms of creativity. It's almost like they're just having him whine, whine, and whine some more. If they're going to make me believe John has PTS, I want to see him scream @ his Mom and Cameron, punch holes through the wall, break some glass, do something that is extraordinary as opposed to just "Wahhhh, I want to turn this off sometimes, wahhh, you didn't protect me, wahhhh, when can I live my life, wahh wahh wahh", that's all it is. Atleast in season one there were glimpses of him TRYING to be this eventual savior. The writers have in fact, dropped the ball with John's character this season, especially after hyping up this "boy becomes a man" tagline. 4.) This show has had me yawning the past three episodes, and in general, 80% of the season. I can't buy this "this show is like a book line" considering the fact that there's a severalother shows that are based off books, but they do it twenty times better. The only real connections that have come together from past episodes so far has been Greenway and Jodie, but outside of that the connections just fail or fall flat. I'm sorry, but these connections have been sloppy at best or just down right not executed in a believable manner. 5.) This is something we can agree on. Everyone here can call me a hater if they'd like, but I still can't stand Shirley's character. I'm going to be EXTREMELY disappointed if it is Cromartie who gets the axe before her (which it does look like it's going to be). I do like the way they're using Ellison, that's one of the saving graces of this show. Oh, and I'd also like to see Charlie reappear very soon, this show has been stale without him. Finally, all in all, this season started out REALLY good and I mean really good. But, the overall theme of this season has been slow, tiresome, and boring. I find my interest in this show dying more and more each week. I will keep watching it over the next several weeks in hopes that my interest will pick back up, but if it keeps heading down this path, this show will lost another viewer. It's unfortunate, but these are my honest thoughts on the show. It's really diappointing right now.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Nov 7, 2008 17:11:09 GMT -5
I find it funny they're trying to play this whole PTS plot with John when Thomas himself can't even nail that portion of his character down... What John is going through isn't believable as PTS I can't speak as to whether Thomas Dekker's performance believably represents PTSD as it's something I've never experienced myself - FWIW, theoretically-speaking PTSD does not necessarily manifest as violence and most often accompanied by clinical depression, making the current characterization of John Connor rather more accurate rather than less. At least according to the text books. That said, my problem with Mr. Dekker's performance is that it's rather too-good. His portrayal of sullen teenaged fury is note-perfect, which is not to say that it's not an extremely alienating characterization.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Nov 7, 2008 17:19:09 GMT -5
Hold on there. There is a big difference between doing anything to save her son and killing someone on a mere possibility that maybe this person could potentially endanger John. It took a number of things for Cromartie to get that boy, one was Cameron's glitch in 'Allison' that Sarah doesn't know about, the other is Cromartie being no more than 5 min away from the bowling alley -- i. e. not guaranteed at all.
It's not a contradiction. She would do anything but that doesn't mean she can execute someone on a mere chance.
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Post by littleb on Nov 9, 2008 7:46:32 GMT -5
FWIW, I've really liked the fact that the show has slowed down some for the second year. I think it takes a lot of guts to not give in to the temptation to blow stuff up and punch stuff every week. Samson & Delilah gave us a good ol' fashioned chase but also sowed the seeds for the rift that's now opened up between Sarah and John. There was a real warmth between them in S1, those little moments where Sarah tried so hard to be a mum and usually failed (getting pizza day wrong is a perfect example but at least she read the newsletter) and I have missed that this year. I'm not mad keen on Rebellious John, he's hard to watch sometimes and some of his actions have been idiotic but I have loved the insight the episodes have given us into Sarah. There's not many shows that could tell a decent action story in the A-plot and interweave it beautifully into a sub plot where a woman saves a kid's life, helps him with a book report and finally gets shown some appreciation, but they managed it in Goodbye To All That. Sarah has never been a stone-cold killer. They made that point in T2. She was probably the most hyped-up she was ever going to be, newly freed from Pescadero, on the run with her son. She stalked onto Dyson's property backed by her own Terminator leitmotif and ultimately couldn't kill him. For me, that made her human, it distinguished her from the machines and I don't want to see her regress to being able to casually blow people away like Cameron can. I'm not sure about Derek's "pure heart" comment, I wouldn't have a problem with her killing in the heat of the moment to protect John, but killing someone because they know where she lives? Not a good enough reason and she looked sick when Cameron shot the bowling alley kids. I think the only thing she could do to make some kind of reparation for Cameron's actions was let the one in the bathroom live. So far for me, only Automatic... has felt like a filler ep, there was just something about it that seemed off and it wasn't without its daft moments, but even this episode came back around to have some significance to Ellison's investigation. I don't think the threads that are being placed in episodes and returned to are accidental, I like that viewers who are paying attention are being rewarded. I love the random surreal moments, mostly with Cameron - the bird in the chimney, the shifting of the house - that make me laugh out loud and love the show more. I love that Cameron is never quite what she seems and now - with potential damage on board - is even less trustworthy than in Season 1. I'm interested in Jesse's motives and the more lines she gets the better cos her accent does weird things to my knees. Derek is still a major badass and BAG continues to act his little socks off. I will miss Cromartie if he goes but there's only so much he can do aside from chase John about and I suspect Weaver is being set up as the real Big Bad this season. I think it's a shame to play one season off against the other. S1 was so short and so obviously had an arc that never came to fruition that it's great to see S2 working on its own arc both thematically and with the characters. I think John's rebellion is going to have serious consequences, and I hope he finally comes to appreciate that Sarah has saved his life, on a daily basis since his conception and that maybe she's owed some credit for that. I think we also have to consider that S2 has far better hair. No more emo bangs for John and Sarah's is just lovely this year, not as floofy as last and framing her face just perfectly... after all these are the things that really matter!
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 19, 2008 19:24:39 GMT -5
I offically gave up on this show after watching "Complications."
What a wasted follow up to last week's brilliant showing.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Nov 20, 2008 12:50:21 GMT -5
Your loss. I loved every second.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 20, 2008 12:52:46 GMT -5
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Post by gothamite66 on Nov 20, 2008 18:30:41 GMT -5
I offically gave up on this show after watching "Complications." What a wasted follow up to last week's brilliant showing. "Complications" is a set-up for the rest of the season and I'm ok with it being a little less than the other episodes for that reason. I also think that maybe the writers structured this season the way they did because the future of the show was so uncertain. This episode was written before the pick-up and I appreciate that they gave us a "just in case" ending just in case we only had 13 episodes. I'm really liking the development of the characters so far this season. The one thing I am missing is that Sarah hasn't gotten to punch anyone yet and a terminator hasn't been run over by a car this season. I derived so much entertainment from those two elements. Terminators getting hit by cars make me laugh. ;D I hope we get some more.
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Post by littleb on Nov 21, 2008 17:07:44 GMT -5
I like that they are brave enough to run threads and themes through the episodes and not succumb to making self-contained stories week in and out (which I'm guessing would probably be safer in terms of ratings and newcomers.) S1 had a serialised structure to it but - due to it being cut short - ended up leaving a lot of threads and characters hanging never to be seen again (most obviously at the school.) This season there's a real journey unfolding and it's great to see the writers being able to get their teeth into a decent amount of episodes and take some chances.
IIRC, they had a 13 arc and a 22 arc planned out for this year to play to both eventualities regarding pick-up or cancellation. I'm guessing 13 will have the mother of all cliff-hangers...(damn them!) There was a definite sense of getting the mission back on track at the end of Complications, which would lead neatly into the last few episodes before the hiatus.
Maybe S2 is not everyone's cup of tea but I can't agree that the show is poorer or lacking something this year, I just don't think it is.
LOL. I think she puched something (let's hope, somebody) in the trailer for next week's episode. Can't promise a Car V Terminator though... I definitely think this show should have a drinking game...
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