Ah yes it shalt suck dueth to a PG-13 rating.
I have seen thine point of view, but thankfully it is blissfully rare much to my surprise.
There ARE reasons for that, which I'll get to, Ross. I am mostly in agreement with Hollow Crown on this issue.
You're just too much of a fanboy to ever believe that anything Terminator related can be bad (that is one thing that I've come to learn about you).
...and this one. I can attest to this 100%. But this isnt about him, its about this Pg-13 issue...
To start off with the points im going to bring out here, Im a fan since before I can remember. I am a DEFENDER of T1 and 2, and think they are the molds for modern noir scifi, along with Alien 1-3. I thought T3 was fluff, a humorous exploitation of the franchise. When McG was announced for T4, I was LIVID that theyd entrust this "do or die" situation to some BS popcorn flick director. When COmic con came, I was relieved to see he wasnt a total idiot. The trailer actually calmed 90% of my fears. Yet... a month before the films release, there are lingering issues, and my hopes are around 60% now. When Pg-13 was first announced, I trusted what I saw of Mcg and his footage and didnt care, but when it became official about a week ago, it hit me like a ton of bricks. THIS IS WRONG. How did we get here? Heres a few things ive noticed:
The decay of adult fictionWhile from our American pop culture perspective this doesnt seem like a big issue, Id like to point out just what HAS happened to the pantheon of grit school fiction. A(lien) V P(redator): PG-13. Die Hard 4: Pg-13. There is a terrible trend happening now, and for those that believe its simply the ratings board loosening their standards, it isnt. Both Alien and Predator had realistic depictions of what would happen when one of these things were on the loose. In AVP they figured the creatures exploding etc would suffice. But low and behold.. human deaths are censored. IT DOESNT SUFFICE. So they try to make up by giving us a stupidly gory followup, thus proving the franchise slipped into an identity crisis that proved fatal. Die Hard 4 had an uncut dvd that added these teeny little shots of blood. Now youre telling me that a dvd can release 1 or 2 teeny shots of blood, but a theatrical release cannot when the franchise was and always should have been an R? If its so insignificant like some say, then why not put the damn scene in the movie? So now its WRONG to show blood spilling from a wound like in t2, or the terminator taking someones heart out? There is 1 and ONLY 1 reason: Because these studios want more money, and WHO they want it from is another controversial point.
Selling to childrenHas anyone stopped to realize the moral ambiguity with a studio PURPOSEFULLY trying to lower a rating so that parents will feel its ok to take their children? Or have we not gotten the message when Halcyon or whoever SPECIFICALLY made a deal with playmates action figures. Has the world just fallen asleep on this or do they not care? Ive NEVER understood why movies like predator and Terminator had action figures that kids buy in Toys R Us. THESE ARE RATED R idiots! T2 had its figures, yes, and I wont ever understand why. Its a blatant contradiction. The more this happens the more parents will be angry that hollywood is making their children violent. The accuracy of these claims is debateable but like everything theres supposed to be a proper RATING to cover this. And now we dont just have a toyline, weve altered the movie ITSELF to pursue this endeavor. Its being flushed down the toilet so a bunch of morons can get paid more. My message to these head suits:
You ARE NOT and WILL NEVER be entitled to a fanbase you never were supposed to have in the first place.A useful artformNow I bet many are saying why tf is this guy so annoyed at a fiction film being PG-13. Who cares. The problem is I am an avid defender of noir fiction. This fiction is NOT intended for kids, but includes adult themes, violence, rough language. Its supposed to depict real life along with these concepts, and within it is the best chance to tell meaningful stories about people. Not exaggerated gore, nothing over the top, just believable. If anyone wondered why people have such a disconnect with fiction films, Pg-13 doesnt help this at ALL. Its censored, fake. Reguardless of how some directors can push the limit, it will NEVER substitute for the rawness of true believability of the consequences of violence. This is ART, and its being stepped on nowadays, being replaced with a new brand of R fiction, which ill get to. Id like to ask everyone if they miss the old style of making fiction films. The Camerons, the Scotts, the Mctiernans. Because if you do, you most definitely would have an issue with this rating, and where this franchise is headed.
Grown adults POV Ive heard recently from an acquaintance about their views on Pg-13 movies, and it just came up randomly. The overwhelming majority of people believe these films are for kids, and the sheer confidence surprised me. Theres no changing this view, no way around it. Terminator just got a little more kid friendly. You go out into the real world and this "Pg-13 isnt that child like" does NOT hold up. The REAL films that are made by adults FOR adults are R rated most of the time. People thinking the populace will have this grand epiphany about Pg-13 films are delluded. These fiction films once made for adults are now proving that anything with a robot in it, anything with creatures not of this planet, are for children, and thats a disgusting shame. Why is this happening in these studios? BECAUSE close to NOBODY CARES. America has NO respect for fiction, so the only ones to notice this change is going to be the carefully attentive fans of these types of films.
I call attention to the irony of the topic NAME itself...
Re: PG-13 confirmed...let's discuss this like ADULTS.Very humorous since most people would find Pg-13 to ultimately be NOT for adults. PRETENDING to be adults? You bet.
Comic adaptations encouraged PG-13So then we get The Dark Knight, a fantastic achievement. Im a massive fan. But the problems are now arising from its success. Comic flicks are ADDING to this watering down problem, believe it or not. Since this comic book movie trend started several years ago, were adapting a new culture. It entails setting a BOUNDARY because of the origins of these characters: comic books. Now, the studios have no qualms about regulating most if not ALL of this type of fiction into Pg-13, whether it has comic baggage or not. It worked in TDK.. itll work for everything. Sadly this is never going to make sense. Terminator is an ORIGINAL WORK, it never had a dual persona like batmans interpretations do. It has ONE STYLE (which was tested thx to the abysmal T3)
This was their chance to do something progressive. This was supposed to be a WAR EPIC. The first one to entail a fictional HELLISH war, but done so real, the achievement would be amazing. If anyone wants to know how to go back to that feeling we had with T2, this concept was their chance for greatness. Sadly, either this crew or its studio doesnt have the courage to do something so bold. Noir fiction was made to break boundaries, and instead its de evolving to teen fare.
I can't wait for the bad word of mouth to destroy T4.
What makes you so confident it will? I dont think most of the average viewer cares about fiction to notice. Thats up to film makers and such, because average people dont know how to create an unrelenting illusion. They do.
PG-13 is fine with me.
Storyline and action are much better than nudity and overgore.
Plus it will allow the younger audience to go see the movie legitimately.
This brings me to another point: TARANTINO, RODRIGUEZ, AND ZACK SNYDER RUINED RATED R. They came up with a new style: CAMP NOIR. Its that grindhouse esque type of movie that has great cinematography but always exaggerates action and tone for badass effect. Well its not. Because now everyone thinks R is sleaze, thus justifying why many are comfortable with films like terminator bumped to Pg-13. Its these posers that have hijacked R, and I think its time the real R films take it back.
I think another thing to remember is T3 cost A LOT...and had ARNIE to bank on...and
Didn't even make back it's BUDGET stateside.So in reality there was very little chance of this being anything other than PG-13 no matter how HARD McG fought for it.
No Arnie to Hype and another huge budget and Watchmen tanking add up to a PG-13...and a hard sounding one at that...to make sure that it makes good money.
Theres truth in this, about Arnold. Sadly, another result of the dumbing down of america, thanks to Arnold, is that terminator was DEFINED by him, so now the safe bet is to cut a limb off to survive, and sell a franchise about mankinds World War 3 with killing happening everywhere, to kids. Its disgusting.
I have my reservations on just how well McG created this gritty world if they could easily make it Pg-13. Perhaps he leaned on blockbuster more than he shouldve. This is a WAR, and all of a sudden the cursing disappears, guns dont make people bleed as much. Youve gotta be kidding me. Hell, people should be BLOWN APART in this war and we shouldnt have daddy censoring for us. Even if this is a good film, this takes points off, due to the sheer cowardice a Pg-13 displays. This is a censorship battle now eating at an entire art form, and if Terminator going pg-13 doesnt wake the avid supporters up, I dont know what will.
All I know is the terminator just got castrated.
And yes Ross, this is Charlie.
This forum turned into one of the worst ones I've ever come across (sorry Erika... you're great. But I can't say the same for the rest of your staff).
