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Post by nordwest on Feb 21, 2009 13:48:42 GMT -5
I am not disappointed about this episode, because I haven't expected much and I got least. It left me very frustrated and almost angry. I do not understand what the writers are going for and how they can expect this to work out properly?
Funerals can be exciting and great drama as we have seen in the "Mouse trap". I loved what the writers did with Charley in this little scenes. But all the funeral stuff in this episode was just boring and way too long.
I wonder why people appreciate the Conner crew working again together? Is this working together? To me it more looks like random interactions. And where are real deep dialogs among them? Can we please concentrate more on the main characters instead of explaining random side characters, which only confuses random viewers? Why was Sarah alone in the basement? So far she has had almost ever taken her killing machine with her. Why no longer?
Summer Glau is still in standby mode. Any random actress can do her part now. Of course it does not make any sense to let her obviously stare at the girl of the week. No one likes a nag! But this is not a big issue and forgiven. Where is the depth in the Cameron character, which Summer Glau has talked about? Do we get it by a chip malfunction?
I have to admit that I always have had some problems with the Sarah character. I found her boring in T1 and too crazy and annoying in T2. The TSCC version is the one I can almost appreciate. Most of S1 and even S2 I liked how she was done, but now she is starting to become annoying to me. This has started with E13 and it may become worse in E16 which will give us more Sarah craziness and we have been already warned, that dealing with Sarah's first kill will haunt the final episodes left. I do not find this believable given her background and what she has been already gone threw including T1 and T2. In my opinion it is Star Track level ethics if the writers try to stay with a clean Sarah. She has been already extremely aggressive and even tortured men. Let your killing machine do the dirty work is like doing it on your own. But this might be not a big issue for the show because I expect most viewers to not care. The issue might be that random or new viewers - can we still hope for them? - do not know this subplot. You always have to remind them. They know what Terminator is about because it is a simple concept.
And who knows the three dots? Is this the war against Skynet or the Three Dot War? The path from the three bloody dots to the HK does not make any sense to me and do we really need a HK prototype to get some excitement?
I have very mixed feelings about the John Conner we got in "Desert Cantos". I think, that it might have been a good idea to give him more dialogs. Why wasn't Riley any issue anymore? Why do we not get any clue on how he deals with losing her and her suicide attempt? He is for what ever reason just back to normal as if nothing has happened. At least to me this is not believable.
I liked the Weaver scenes again. There was not much in them but still they have been entertaining. It is so simple and not even expensive in production. You do not need a good actress either. Shirley Manson does a very good job as the whole cast.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 21, 2009 13:53:03 GMT -5
Sarah was pretty good herself, talking to one of the other widows, which happened to be the widow of the man she had the run-in at the barn, and had killed. That must've been a tough moment there in the car for Sarah as the widow pulled out her cellphone and played back the last minutes of a recording when he accidentally (or intentionally?) called his wife's phone. Oh that reminds me... Anyone else notice how Winston's son got cut out of the story? When Sarah pulled a gun on him at the warehouse, he told her he had a wife and a son ("I'm his coach. I'm his little league coach."). We meet the wife in this episode, but she never mentions a son and that part of Winston's dialog is omitted from the cell phone call playback. Oops. I'm not sure if the scene with Derek giving Mr.Walsh a lift to the graveyard - Derek's reply was just the wrong reply or deliberate when Mr. Walsh asked Derek what he would do, and Derek said "I'd do nothing." Which resulted in Mr.Walsh exiting the vehicle. A minor continuity glitch though - both Derek and Walsh could be seen arriving at the graveyard at the same time walking out from the trees / shrubs. With only a rough 5-7ft gap in pacing. I had gotten the impression there was that stretch of highway or interstate between the town and the graveyard. Yeah I noticed that too. LOL. And it's not like Walsh got out and started walking when they were right down the street from the cemetery either. He got out on the highway. Oops.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Feb 21, 2009 14:02:24 GMT -5
Sarah was pretty good herself, talking to one of the other widows, which happened to be the widow of the man she had the run-in at the barn, and had killed. That must've been a tough moment there in the car for Sarah as the widow pulled out her cellphone and played back the last minutes of a recording when he accidentally (or intentionally?) called his wife's phone. Oh that reminds me... Anyone else notice how Winston's son got cut out of the story? When Sarah pulled a gun on him at the warehouse, he told her he had a wife and a son ("I'm his coach. I'm his little league coach."). We meet the wife in this episode, but she never mentions a son and that part of Winston's dialog is omitted from the cell phone call playback. Oops. Winston, ahh, that was his name. Very good catch there. :edit: my bad... thought there was also a mix up with the daughter, but thats two different families... quick edit for the correction.. ........... And who knows the three dots? Is this the war against Skynet or the Three Dot War? The path from the three bloody dots to the HK does not make any sense to me and do we really need a HK prototype to get some excitement? The three dots led Sarah to some foolish and dangerous goose chases, some of which she went solo, and almost had almost paid with her own life. However, all those names meant something on the wall, good chance the 3 dots did too. It finally began to pay off with the UFO convention, though the episode ended with a 50/50 toss-up cliffhanger. A proto-type like HK with infact - 3 engines, and Kyle. Was she hallucinating both HK an Kyle or what? Well, now we the facts for both. Kudos to the writers for answering both of those speculations rather than leaving them as unsolved mysteries. Further more, way back since Season1, we've seen some effort on Skynet's part to pre-empt the J-Day by securing and stockpiling resources (hint: Coltran) ahead of time in the past. Since Weaver's got the turk, further developing it, and ZeiraCorp funding possibly many hi-tech research and development on projects like the proto-type HK, it all keeps in line with the over-all continuity of the story for the whole entire series. Now we've got that Proto-HK, a twist with someone else's own private intentions apart from skynet's (John Henry's tapping of the phonecall from the barn), as well as the premise and foreshadowing just how pre-emptive Skynet is being this time around. Maybe Zoe's dad was a grey, (came back in time working for skynet) and changed his mind. Or sold the prototype to a high paying buyer, ironically, maybe even the military through shady in discriminant contacts. I don't think it'll be the last of them.
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Post by thecolours on Feb 21, 2009 15:23:04 GMT -5
Can we please concentrate more on the main characters instead of explaining random side characters, which only confuses random viewers? I agree with this assessment. When characters like Zoey and Mrs. Winston have more lines of dialog than John, Derek, and Cameron combined, there's something very wrong with that. And this is not a isolated incident. It goes back to Alpine Fields, side characters have way to much deposition into their back story, when that time should be spent on the main characters.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Feb 21, 2009 16:04:59 GMT -5
John showing some leadership qualities that we know he has in the future. The guy stopped the car, no one did anything and John decided to act and moved forward. In the basement, nothing was really happening and then John decided to act and moved things forward. Little flashes of his future self, it was great. Like others have said, the Connors and crew actually working together and talking to one another. Golden. Those four are the foundation of this show and it's great to see each one of them add something to what's happening. They can bicker and fight and not like each other, but as long as they work together and communicate.. you just can't go wrong. Augh. I hated when John pulled out the gun in the basement. Lying or not, that mother and daughter were afraid to give up information. I didn't see scaring them more as a great moment of leadership. Hard-ass John doesn't ever work for me. Though it may explain why he has no friends in the future Really, AG? Because I seriously loved that moment. It wasn't a big deal but I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about it given how much yammering I've seen from the "TSCC should be all BADASS JOHN CONNOR ALL THE TIME" set. I like that instead of some big, kick down the door with an AK silliness, we get two moments of pure Sarah Connor initiative coming from John. Haul a guy out of the driver's seat rather than talk to the cops? Pull a gun to end pointless discussion? Those things are so Sarah Connor. And to see John being the one to pull the gun in that situation is a significant moment in his character development. But it also highlights how much John is Sarah's son and everything he learns about leadership, he first learns from her. Like any student, he has the opportunity to exceed the teacher by avoiding her mistakes but, if you think about it, where else does the steeliness to send his father to his death, and through his father, his mother to hers come from, if not from Sarah Connor herself? And, ITA, there is never not good from seeing Team Connor working together to solves a problem. now they're alienating the die hards who keep coming back for more. Not this die hard! [/quote] Word. Speak for yourself, dude, because you don't speak for me. I was mulling over the pacing of this episode, which was incredibly X-Filesy. I think this is the only episode of TSCC without any onscreen violence. In terms of tone, part of it is the show is so reactive, the TERMINATOR story, in fact. Sarah and Kyle weren't actually the protagonists of the first movie, the T-800 was. Everything they did was in response to moves it made first. I think this episode is the first time the team as a group goes on the offensive rather than reacting to a presented problem. And the more I think about it, the more I find it ironic that there were complaints about Sarah's questing after the three dots and complaints that the Connors weren't proactive enough in the same breath. I gotta say, it is deeply unfortunate that these episodes are essentially kicking off secondary season rather than flowing one after the other.
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Post by aceplace57 on Feb 21, 2009 17:51:02 GMT -5
Has any character actually called that plane a HK? Hardcore fans recognize the design from other sources. I was deeply disappointed they didn't give Derek the chance to react. He's been hunted and possibly captured by one of those things. His reaction should have been stark terror and visceral. I can't think of anything more horrific for a victim of the Terminator labor camps. Yet, Derek's reaction - nothing.
I'm still intrigued by Weaver's relationship with Savannah. It goes deeper than a cover for her human identity. Weaver made a special point to reach out to her. The anniversary of her father's death provided an opportunity to connect with Savannah when she was lonely and vulnerable. Weaver wants to connect with her for some unknown reason.
I liked this episode a lot. The X Files vibe is exactly what it's always needed. Not every episode, but once in awhile.
I read everyone's comments and nearly all of them commented favorably about Team Connor working together as a team. John and Derek finally saw that Sarah had been right all along. That was wonderful and one of the best moments in this episode. But, the writers give and then they taketh away. Next week we're back to crazy Sarah. She finally gets locked up (again). That blows. It, really, really sucks. Team Connor is the heart and soul of this show and most of the time it's shattered.
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Post by gothamite66 on Feb 21, 2009 21:10:31 GMT -5
Augh. I hated when John pulled out the gun in the basement. Lying or not, that mother and daughter were afraid to give up information. I didn't see scaring them more as a great moment of leadership. Hard-ass John doesn't ever work for me. Though it may explain why he has no friends in the future Really, AG? Because I seriously loved that moment. It wasn't a big deal but I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about it given how much yammering I've seen from the "TSCC should be all BADASS JOHN CONNOR ALL THE TIME" set. I like that instead of some big, kick down the door with an AK silliness, we get two moments of pure Sarah Connor initiative coming from John. And to see John being the one to pull the gun in that situation is a significant moment in his character development. But it also highlights how much John is Sarah's son and everything he learns about leadership, he first learns from her. Like any student, he has the opportunity to exceed the teacher by avoiding her mistakes but, if you think about it, where else does the steeliness to send his father to his death, and through his father, his mother to hers come from, if not from Sarah Connor herself? And, ITA, there is never not good from seeing Team Connor working together to solves a problem. I also loved the part where Sarah and John tag team interrogated the mother about the factory. It was so nice to finally see Sarah and John play off each other in a unified manner.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 21, 2009 22:28:48 GMT -5
Augh. I hated when John pulled out the gun in the basement. Lying or not, that mother and daughter were afraid to give up information. I didn't see scaring them more as a great moment of leadership. Hard-ass John doesn't ever work for me. Though it may explain why he has no friends in the future Really, AG? Because I seriously loved that moment. It wasn't a big deal but I'm surprised that more people aren't talking about it given how much yammering I've seen from the "TSCC should be all BADASS JOHN CONNOR ALL THE TIME" set. I like that instead of some big, kick down the door with an AK silliness, we get two moments of pure Sarah Connor initiative coming from John. And to see John being the one to pull the gun in that situation is a significant moment in his character development. But it also highlights how much John is Sarah's son and everything he learns about leadership, he first learns from her. Like any student, he has the opportunity to exceed the teacher by avoiding her mistakes but, if you think about it, where else does the steeliness to send his father to his death, and through his father, his mother to hers come from, if not from Sarah Connor herself? I also loved the part where Sarah and John tag team interrogated the mother about the factory. It was so nice to finally see Sarah and John play off each other in a unified manner. Yeah, I figure I'm probably alone on this one. I think I just have a very different idea of who John Connor is. And who he seems to be becoming on the show doesn't fit with it. I'm not going to give up on him yet, though. I'm hoping the way he is now is still part of the journey, not a glimpse into the end result of it.
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alexina
Refugee
Winner Halloween 08 Banner Challenge
Posts: 57
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Post by alexina on Feb 21, 2009 22:54:25 GMT -5
Every time I saw Henry I kept half-expecting Paris Geller to show up just to torment him further after all those times on Gilmore Girls at Chilton. She was always Terminator like in her ability to completely destroy him seemingly without effort. Cameron, for her part, seemed ready to take the charge, even rendering him incapable of driving with just a few words. Sometimes, there is just no escape. Adam Wylie....I knew the guy looked familiar! He was on Gilmore Girls! Hahaha! It's kinda funny because throughout most of the episode, I kept thinking "This is Stars Hollow...this is Stars Hollow... I remember that green. I remember Brad (Adam Wylie). I remember Rune (Max Perlich)." Seriously, I was waiting for Lorelai to walk past with a witty comment or two... I'm also going to jump on the awesomeness of the Team Connor wagon. I love that. Well, it could be worse...at least it's not the pacing of LOST! (I can only watch that show after the season is completed...then it's marathon time.) I think this episode was a wee bit slow, yes, but I also think it was a set-up to some bigger things, which I have no doubt will be awesome. Also, the funeral stuff was closure stuff...or the need for closure...for Sarah, for Derek, for John...more for Sarah though. There was never a funeral for Kyle; Sarah needs closure, and on some level she also needs closure for Winston. Though, neither happened, I think it was meant to reflect that need for closure. To move on...to "let him go". This is further shown through Mr. Weaver's death-anniversary, and Ellison's reveal of his own father's death (and how he dealt with it). John taking out that gun...I loved that. He stepped up a bit there, showing signs of the mantle he may very well take if they can't prevent Judgement Day. As a completely sided side-note, I liked that they were using the Lutheran Book of Worship in the singing scene. Ha! I thought that looked familiar. I had to re-watch to be sure, and sure enough, it is. Though, I should mention that the song she sung, "In the Sweet By and By," is not in the book (at least as far as I could find; yes, my mother keeps a copy at home). Oh, props department...
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Post by Erika on Feb 22, 2009 2:49:33 GMT -5
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Post by littleb on Feb 22, 2009 3:52:16 GMT -5
Hard-ass John doesn't ever work for me. Though it may explain why he has no friends in the future I liked it. Liked that it seemed so natural a thing for him to do and yet it was surprising at the same time. Kinda did a double-take and went "oooh, how very manly and how totally not the usual following-Riley-with his tongue out -John." I'd like to see it develop now. Especially liked how Sarah didn't even blink. No "John, put it down before you take your own foot off", no move to intervene at all. I guess she approved. Heh. Definitely learning from the best. She's such a good role model. Harsh isn't it? You don't really think of Kyle's mission like that, you kinda go for the romance and the heroism and then yeah, he is being sent on a one way trip and John knows that in advance. Ouch. Oh I loved that in this episode. Loved them all getting in the car at the end, when they've basically used the whole town and their grief for their own means, and just driving off. It was so badass. Thou does noteth speaketh for me either (well, it is Sunday.) There was only the grainy murders on the CCTV and the poor cows. But they looked plastic anyways so don't count. Does seem like they have a mission again, not that they ever didn't have one, but the team thing makes it a common mission not a segregated one which has more of a S1 vibe. Poor girl's been running her arse off all over, getting shot, shooting at people, finding clues, making mistakes, finding HKs and people still aren't happy. She must wonder what the hell she needs to do to satisfy the critics (or the writers must!) I agree. This episode was a slow-burn but allowed to run as a continuation of Earthlings and TGW it wouldn't have stood out as much. I think people are anxious that the show keeps moving to stay alive - kinda like a shark - and they're frustrated because this one took its time and worked through some plot instead. I enjoyed it. I thought it took some liberties with plot coincidences - Sarah spending so much time with Winston's widow was a little too much and John coincidentally ending up talking to the girl who was the key to all the secrets, was also a leap too far but it kept me interested throughout. Random things... Loved Sarah's "I hate Skynet" line. I don't know why. It was just so simple and sweet and pretty much summed her up in 3 words. Was there ever a man more uncomfortable at a candlelit vigil than Derek? And who the hell plans those for the daytime?! Nice that Sarah's a waitress in every alibi she conjures up. Was it her penance that she had to spend so much time with the not-so-merry widow? More Sarah and Derek having little almost heart-to-hearts please. I love those two together. Nice switch on the burial suit. I thought at the time "why would you bury teeth and ashes in a suit?" and figured it was a writerly snafu. I love being proved wrong. LMAO at Weaver's "I'm feeling emotional." Manson gets better every week. Also LMAO at the fake wake crashing. That scene was hilariously surreal. Derek with his shrimp skewers, suddenly deciding the guy's not dead at all and then Sarah knocking on the window from the garage. I don't know whether I was supposed to find it as funny as I did. Not sure whether it's been mentioned but was Zoe's dad a terminator? Was that what we were supposed to infer?
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Post by thefallisshort on Feb 22, 2009 12:43:28 GMT -5
:-) I thought the same thing. I was like, "Ohh..Brad."
BTW, I can't seem to find the promo for next week's epi. Does anyone have a link to it? Thanks.
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Post by stealthgear on Feb 22, 2009 13:33:58 GMT -5
I think Zoe's dad was a human by the way he was running around at the last scene.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 23, 2009 0:38:20 GMT -5
I think Zoe's dad was a human by the way he was running around at the last scene. Yeah. I don't think we had any reason to believe he wasn't human. -------- The tractor trailer that the HK thingy flew into clearly showed a DOT number on it. Was that meant to imply that this was a government operation? Or do all tractor trailers have DOT numbers? Anyone know?
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on Feb 23, 2009 3:17:48 GMT -5
The tractor trailer that the HK thingy flew into clearly showed a DOT number on it. Was that meant to imply that this was a government operation? Or do all tractor trailers have DOT numbers? Anyone know? I believe all tractor-trailers must have DOT numbers if they haul goods over state lines, which means virtually all commercial US carriers have DOT numbers. So, no it doesn't mean anything except Zoey's dad rented a properly-licensed tractor-trailer to haul his ill-gotten prototype. I'd tell you how I know but then I'd have to kill you...
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