t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 11, 2008 13:06:40 GMT -5
It's entirely possible that we are reading too much into it. But it's not about the photos, it's the description that says Cameron confronts him for being out all night. This sounds way much like what happened this last episode, John being frivolous and irresponsible. But we'll see.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 11, 2008 14:50:35 GMT -5
Btw, I think the description of Riley as being "quick on her feet" etc in her character profile explains how she'll survive as an associate of the group. Her grabbing the camera this ep and staring down Termy last ep (not to mention both her laudable lying skills & her insights into John -detecting tells) illustrate a certain level of street smarts that -while not abnormal- makes her less vulnerable than the usual innocent LI type. Finally, I can't wait to find out Cameron's surprising secret. I was so sure it was something dark and evil at first because of how freaky she seemed to me in this ep but now that I'm seeing library pictures and a wheelchair-bound friend, maybe we're going to see some light shone on her good side again. Great post! I agree, Riley can be an asset under the right circumstances (once she is in on things, which probably won't be too long before that happens). And I hope we do get to see a lighter side of Cameron again, though we have to be careful to conclude anything from those pictures. TSCC has been quite surprising lately. It would be very nice if Cameron showed a softer side again, though, and not just toward John.
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Post by sarah on Nov 11, 2008 20:04:06 GMT -5
Thanks, wb5 ITA re:Cameron. It's not just the latest episode in which she's been more mechanical and secretive; it's been a season-long theme so far (except for ep4). I really love this season -more so than s1 even- but I'm sad that we haven't seen the softer Cameron develop more (if there is one). Her continued obsession with John Connor is not something I perceive as her being 'soft'. Rather, IMO, it's one of the scariest things about her. But maybe that's just because I'm a Sarah I love the continuity in the revelation behind what Cameron does when she 'never sleeps'. In season1 didn't she say she'd memorized the dictionary because of her insomnia? Maybe that's how her Bible study transpired as well. In any case, a library is a good place to continue those pursuits. Of course, if Cameron's pursuits are quite so harmless then why is she battle-scarred? Is that a separate storyline or related? I'm really looking forward to this ep. Last (maybe) word on John/Riley... I'm curious about what that kiss means. Has he told her everything --or just placated her concerns? Also, my take from Ep8 was that Riley was really leery of John's intentions since she was smart enough to know that John is going thru a rebellion more than a romance. Are his feelings deepening to something more closely resembling real affection after their ordeal OR is the jealousy/defiance still the name of the game?
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Nov 13, 2008 4:53:12 GMT -5
I like the fact Cameron's going off on her own, especially to a place of learning like the library. *puts flak jacket on* Maybe she's been reading the Harlequin Romance Novels? *ducks for cover* ;D Ok, I couldn't resist that pot-shot there, Seriously though, I couldn't think of a better place for Cameron to sneak off to during the graveyard hours while the Connors are asleep. A library's filled with lots of great literature, many written by some of the greatest minds throughout time. Some of the promo shots, looks like the guy Eric is pointing out to some particular books on a shelf. History books on all the great wars perhaps? That which may help John in the future about strategies and tactics? Why wars were fought and how they were won? We know Cameron is always learning, wanting to learn and understand. Maybe Cameron's embarking on her own personal quest? To find out the meaning of life? That'd indicate an aspiration of metaphysical proportions. Either way, and whatever the case may be, to read a book is one thing, and she dosn't need to write exams since what she reads gets stored into memory. But, with someone like Eric there to talk to, she could further learn by discussing what she had read with Eric. Eric could ask her theoretical questions, that'd make her apply the knowledge she just read to answer his questions. Basically, the ability to memorize isn't truly learning. If you memorize a passage from a book, you haven't really learnt anything. Its when you have to apply that knowledge to solve a question / problem outside of the book, only then you're really learning something from what you've read. In this example, this is where a Library and Eric could be highly beneficial to Cameron. Eric would be like a knowledgable tutor of sorts, instructing her what to read, then helping her understand the material she read. OR , Cameron just checks out the library out of boredom and curiosity, and gets caught up with intrigue by this guy Eric who turns her attention to great works of literature. It may be an innocent question Eric asks Cameron, from a topic he's fascinated with. Cameron either deadpans an answer, or doesn't know, and asks him to teach her about it. Eric could be something of a history buff with fascination of a certain time period, or historical figure like Alexander the Great. And there Cameron gets drawn in to this fascinating new hobby. OR, maybe she's at the library researching some topic or subject, pertaining to the current events within that episode. Like a fact finding mission, much like Buffy Summers and Giles always hit the library books / tomes of the arcane to research some ancient deity or demon from the past. It just might be related to the Terminator that was erroneously sent back too far back in time. The Terminator replacing an iconic figure in history like Alexander the Great or Caesar or Blackbeard the Pirate... Or the Terminator becomes some literary writer, maybe even surviving the ages (like in the series Forever Knight) and is still around - as Eric... Leg servos damaged or long worn out, and confined to a wheelchair for mobility... Here's one more wild idea... and this one's a bit of a stretch - in 2x08, Cameron reveals she and future John talk alot. In an earlier episode, Cameron also knows his favourite book Sarah read to him as a kid was the Wizard of Oz. Cameron revealed this fact to Sarah in the Bidell episode. My guess would be that in the post-JD future, good literature is hard to come by with the massive destruction all around. It may have dawned on Cameron to go soak up what literature she can while it's readily available in the present. So she could possibly teach John, or at the very least entertain him with literature in the topics he had expressed interest in. Just something to pass those long sleepless nights with, til John manages to nod off to sleep. I couldn't think of a more plutonically caring role Cameron would be for a possibly near insomniac or restless John, (the cost & burden for being that great leader). Sort of like a surrogate replacement role of his mother reading a young child to sleep, and from missing his mother a great deal, this being what does put him to sleep. Would explain how and why they talk alot in the future, likely into the wee hours of the night, being an intimate or deep bond they share as close friends and bodyguard / protector. (not necessarily meaning sexual relations either) Anyways, those are the ideas that come to mind right now. Some obviously more wild than others... Anythings possible with this very interesting twist in Cameron's character development. She could easily be an information magnet with an insatiable appetite for literature. I'll leave that with all of you to ponder...
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Post by sarah on Nov 13, 2008 5:03:18 GMT -5
That's not so wild, terrasj. I think Cameron has already clearly shown herself to be an insatiable student of knowledge, whether it be ancient stories, human psychology or Art. Like Sarah said, the best thing about the machines is their desire for self-improvement. Cameron is a primary example. I love her curiosity and adaptability!
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Nov 13, 2008 5:18:25 GMT -5
thx you might want to refresh / reload the page. made a couple extra addendums / clarification edits to the 'Here's one more wild idea' paragraph... And the metaphisical note i mentioned was the classic Pinocchio desiring to become a real boy. Hence forth the metaphysical quest for a mechanical construct to become human, or more human-like. (Cameron in this case). Doesn't mean she'll become one, but the quest is a noble one. I'm just briefly touching on this topic with a small note here, and rather not intending to explore it further in this thread which should remain discussing the events of the episode , as like why and what Cameron's doing at the library in the first place. And said metaphysical aspect discussion probably would be best debated in another thread. And not to derail this thread. I don't want to incur wrath of the moderators here
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Post by vicheron on Nov 13, 2008 5:44:08 GMT -5
Uncle Bob said in T2 that the more contact he has with humans, the more he learns, and he was able to pick things up pretty quickly. It would be logical for Terminators to interact with more humans, as long as it does not affect their mission, since it would at least improve their infiltration capabilities. Of course Uncle Bob never left John unprotected in order to acquire more knowledge but then he never had to live with John for an extended period of time.
It is strange that Skynet doesn't actually program its Terminators with some of the stuff that Cameron has to learn. Knowing all the human languages would definitely help Terminators. Psychology would definitely benefit Terminators in interacting and fooling humans. Literature may not seem necessary but the French Resistance passed messages through poems and quotes from books.
As for most of the literature and history being destroyed on Judgment Day, ironically, Skynet may end up having the greatest repository of human knowledge. If they destroy Skynet then much of humanity's greatest achievements may be lost forever.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Nov 13, 2008 7:44:05 GMT -5
Uncle Bob said in T2 that the more contact he has with humans, the more he learns, and he was able to pick things up pretty quickly. Canologically speaking, he didn't actually say that. In the theatrical cut he did, but that was to cover a deleted scene which would be restored later in the Special Edition (which is now considered canon). When Terminators come off the assembly line, their chips are set to "Read only," meaning that they can only run programs that have been pre-determined by their programmer. However, in the now classic extended scene, John and Sarah open up his head, remove his chip, and then reset the pin switch so that he goes into "write mode." It's after this change that Uncle Bob really starts to evolve, and it's why by the end of the movie he's able to relate to John in a much more humane way than he could at the beginning. I think that Cameron's chip has either been set to write mode since the beginning, or the explosion fried the switch that was keeping her in read-only mode. Or, it's possible that her model doesn't even have a switch, and that they're always in a perpetual state of learning by default.
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Post by chrisimo on Nov 13, 2008 8:05:56 GMT -5
Canologically speaking, he didn't actually say that. In the theatrical cut he did, but that was to cover a deleted scene which would be restored later in the Special Edition (which is now considered canon). Interesting. Someone here said that the original theatrical version is considered to be canon, whereas the extended version is not. Is there some kind of official statement about this or is it a more universal rule?
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 13, 2008 12:15:21 GMT -5
To go briefly Off-T: Ugh, when I ascend my father's throne rule the world, I will strike down on Harlequin Romance with great vengefulness - last month I saw they had a special line of books called "Bought for Her Baby" - WTF, world? Seriously: As for the question of canon - The best place to discuss this is probably the Terminator Films board (feel free to start a thread if you can't find one) but the short answer is it depends. As far as TSCC goes, since we've seen various T-888 chips as well as Cam's on a number of occassions without anyone mentioning a "read-only/write" switch, it would appear that TSCC is going by the theatrical release of T2 (or that option has been removed from these models). Back On-T: I really like the enormous stack of books they've set next to Cam in those photos - I wonder if it's her mad speed-reading skilz that catches Library Dude's attention...?
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 13, 2008 13:37:54 GMT -5
As far as Cameron AKA James was concerned...Theatrical Version was canon...least that's what he told me.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Nov 13, 2008 16:25:12 GMT -5
*cringes* (note to self: never mention HRM on these boards again, nomatter how amusing it may seem at the time) Speed-reading... How'd Cameron cover up for herself - a white lie claiming she's just 'skimming the page for something specific? Thats what got me curious in the first place - why she's there and what's she reading and discussing? Btw, just found theres some way larger versions of those pics for this episode @ the wiki 2x10 page here ... click the thumbnail, then click on the picture again... 2000x1384 pixel resolution! Now, the spine of the thick red book on the table reads "BOWDITCH" ... A search on google points to a few different instances, the most common one being a Nathaniel Bowditch - someone who wrote the book on ocean navigation and astronomy... Theres also a Bowditch online site - referring to ocean navigation, radar, astronomy and charts... But I'm unable to make out the rest of stack of books on the table, or to what section of library isle is he pointing out a book with his 'griper stick'... Any ideas? any guesses?
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cyadon
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Post by cyadon on Nov 13, 2008 16:33:56 GMT -5
Speed readers do exist and can get good comprehension out of what they're reading. It's just a rare skillset. I'm sure Cameron could get away with claiming to be one. I almost sure that she can read books faster than any regular Joe human could.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 13, 2008 17:49:49 GMT -5
Of course, if Cameron's pursuits are quite so harmless then why is she battle-scarred? Is that a separate storyline or related? I'm really looking forward to this ep. Me too, I hope it really is a kinda "softer" Cameron we get to see here. The battle scars seem pretty serious though - looks like she has been shot (or otherwise damaged) twice in the face. Possibly she was protecting this Eric, or there may be something to Terraj's idea that he will turn out to be the "misplaced" Terminator. I'm also looking forward to her attempting to learn things - it's just someting Cameron, especially the S1 Cameron, would do. Last (maybe) word on John/Riley... I'm curious about what that kiss means. Has he told her everything --or just placated her concerns? I if had to guess I would go for the latter, unless him telling her is a major part of ep9 (but I dopubt that, Riley isn't even mentioned so far in the spoilers for that ep). Perhaps she will know by the end of ep10, though - who know, maybe she sees Cameron with her battle damage. I have to say, Summer looks stunning in that particular promo picture.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 13, 2008 18:27:37 GMT -5
Terminators don't try to hide their superior abilities unless someone really notices. Cameron had no problem lifting that big computer by herself when there were people around in "The Mousetrap."
Cameron is definitely following what Uncle Bob said about learning from having more contact with humans. She could get all that information from the internet. It would be faster and it lets her stay closer to John. However, going to the library would allow Cameron to use more of her senses, especially when she's interacting with someone else.
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