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Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 13, 2008 3:43:34 GMT -5
As for there being a relationship between John and Cameron as a Terminator in the future, I think that would be completely fabulous. Whether it occurred because the Cameron Terminator was a copy of a human Cameron would be irrelevant. The fact that a Terminator could have a "real" relationship with a human would be just the sort of thing that would complicate John Connor's existence.
Think about it. Whereas Sarah is sort of a neo-Luddite and doesn't like advanced technology, John is already "tainted". He's a computer hacker. He doesn't shrink from reprogramming Terminators to work for him, even though to his peers like Derek it's an abomination. It's not too much of a stretch for him to fall in love with a very human-like Terminator, especially given how isolated he is from everyone because of his experiences. It would be the ultimate irony about the whole story line - the savior of mankind from the machines can only find love with a machine.
Remember the Resistance officer in the D&D episode saying, "Connor doesn't have any friends and he doesn't talk to anyone." Well, I'm betting he talks to Cameron - because he told her about "The Wizard of Oz" stories. I doubt he told anybody else in the future about that, with the possible exception of Kyle Reese. Either that or Cameron really does have the brain patterns and memories of a human Cameron, whether created by Skynet or John (or both).
I can easily see this story line going in several directions. I just hope Josh doesn't take any easy way out.
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traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
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Post by traitorsgate on Sept 13, 2008 4:03:13 GMT -5
The thing is in every war that mankind has got itself involved with there is one common byproduct - Xenophobia. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that the same sort of thing wouldn't happen in a war against machines. There's nothing wrong with the concept of Humans and artificial beings forming relationships after all it's been done to death in any number of films perhaps most famously with Blade Runner. However within the practical context of the Terminator world it simply wouldn't fly.
John Connor may well view himself as some sort of forward thinking Computer hacker come world leader able to have a relationship with a female bot but the vast majority of whatever is left of the human race wouldn't be so understanding. The history of the human race and the way that we conduct ourselves in times of all out war attests to that. If this guy is meant to inspire and lead men into battle against an enemy that will kill them without remorse then he can't be seen to be having a relationship with the very same thing that slaughtered these men's families.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Sept 13, 2008 4:38:51 GMT -5
^^ Isn't that exactly why it would happen? 'Here is the glorious leader of the human resistance, he knows the stakes and understands the complications, and is very good at what he does. But that's just too easy... No, lets give him a dark secret, a forbidden love for his enemy. Now we have conflict, now we can all wonder what happens if anyone finds out, now we can all wonder whether he could do what's necessary when the time comes (which by the way his present self couldn't).' -- it's not like that idea hasn't compelled a writer or two in the past.
It seems however more like a thing of the present John more than the future.
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traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
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Post by traitorsgate on Sept 13, 2008 4:52:47 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong It's an interesting premise but the practicalities of a relationship of this type is bordering on melodrama, which is the last thing this series needs. The D&D episode has already shown that everybody was aware that Cameron is a Bot so if her and JC were carrying on then it would be nigh on impossible to keep that a secret for any length of time. Workplace relationships never stay a secret for long.
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Post by allergygal on Sept 13, 2008 5:12:24 GMT -5
I finally just watched the season preveiw from the end of last week's episode (got cut off on my recording) and yeah, I'm definitely in agreement with the talk in here that Cameron was based on an actual human (Allison from Palmdale?). We not only see her acting human in the future sequence, but getting captured by a net as well. I guess Skynet targets her for whatever reason (she must have a connection to John in the future), and as Arnold said in T2, "typically the subject being copied is terminated". What I wonder is whether or not Cameron would have the human's memories. I'd think she would (sorry t101 I know you don't like that idea) since there would be no reason to make a cyborg that looks like a specific human unless you were planning on inserting the cyborg into the human's life. And you really can't do that convincingly without programming in memories of the human. How many memories would depend on how Skynet gets them. Does it have the technology to extract information from the human brain? If so, Cameron could have all the girl's memories locked away inside her. Those memories were presumably erased when she had her reprogramming done, but we obviously have cause to believe otherwise since she was able to revert to a KILL JOHN mission parameter. That either means the memory wipe failed or John kept her original programming (memories, etc) in tact for a reason. Future!John must have assumed that younger John would eventually hack into Cameron's chip and see them, so my guess is the human version of Cameron knew some stuff that's important to the fight against Skynet. Now that Cameron's chip is damaged, I think we know John's going to attempt to get in there and repair it soon (maybe this episode) and we'll hopefully find out why her memory wasn't erased.
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Post by vicheron on Sept 13, 2008 23:28:21 GMT -5
The Terminator could acquire the information about the person it's supposed to replace after it replaces them. That's what the T-1000 did in T2. Also, as I said before, I really hope that there are no Terminator-human mind melds.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 14, 2008 3:43:21 GMT -5
Well, if they did make a copy of a human, then that whole business needs to be explained better. So far in the Terminator universe, only T-1000's can mimic a person's physical appearance. So how did they actually manage to copy an existing human's appearance using a T-888? And if Vic was a copy made in the future, why was there a room full of them in his memory? Something doesn't jibe. If there was originally a scene that explained that he was a copy, why did they cut that scene? I could see them not going down that path because then nobody will ever know who is a Terminator and who isn't? Like Derek said, "Think you'd know?"
I can see that the segments where Barbara was talking about his accident and their marriage problems might suggest that was the original intent, but something still doesn't add up in that concept. I assumed from those segments that Vic simply behaved less as a husband once she started working on the ARTIE system because she was getting close to finishing it, so he could kill her. And he had to blame a car accident for his reason for staying at home close to her to insure that it was completed. Barbara seemed to blame their relationship problems on her being consumed by the project, not so much him.
I really do hope they don't shy away from the notion of an actual Terminator-human relationship after telegraphing it so thoroughly with the Vic episode. As I've indicated, that would be the ultimate irony in the whole Terminator story line.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 14, 2008 3:52:50 GMT -5
As for John not being able to have a relationship with the machine because the rest of mankind won't accept it - well, he already has. He reprogrammed Terminators to serve the Resistance. They accepted that. And given his isolation from even his men in the Resistance, I think he would have no problem hiding his relationship with Cameron.
Remember what the Resistance officer told Derek: "Connor doesn't have any friends and he doesn't talk to anybody." And remember what Derek told the other fighter in the prison house, "We go where we're told, we do what we're told." And the other fighter suggested that "Maybe Connor is crazy." These people follow Connor like he's a Messiah and don't question his actions. Derek questioned the reprogramming of Terminators and apparently never came to grips with that aspect of Connor, presumably because of what happened in the prison house. We really need to know what the hell went on there in that basement room.
I still think that Cameron is either Connor's wife in the future or a duplicate of a human wife he had, or at the very least she's trying to be for her own reasons.
Hopefully we'll know more after episode four.
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Post by ehonda on Sept 14, 2008 4:26:36 GMT -5
Well, if they did make a copy of a human, then that whole business needs to be explained better. So far in the Terminator universe, only T-1000's can mimic a person's physical appearance. So how did they actually manage to copy an existing human's appearance using a T-888? And if Vic was a copy made in the future, why was there a room full of them in his memory? Something doesn't jibe. If there was originally a scene that explained that he was a copy, why did they cut that scene? I could see them not going down that path because then nobody will ever know who is a Terminator and who isn't? IIRC, TheTurk (either on this forum or another) confirmed that Vick having "replaced" the real Vick Chamberlain after the "accident" is what they implied happened. Yeah, it could have been explained a little better but they probably just didn't have the time.
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Post by bowman on Sept 14, 2008 6:04:39 GMT -5
Why were there loads of Vicks, well, we already know Skynet doesn't make 'unique' T-xxx models, if there's a T-xxx model it's a sure bet there are loads others like them.. ('so do you like come off an assembly line? exactly') But they're never used in the same AO, otherwise it'd be pointless.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 14, 2008 12:02:49 GMT -5
^^^
I don't think you're allowed to post anything from that site here. Can you please edit it out of your post? Thank you.
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Post by bowman on Sept 14, 2008 12:21:22 GMT -5
Uh, okay.. What's wrong with that site? Some sort of e-war or whatever?
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Post by allergygal on Sept 14, 2008 12:53:20 GMT -5
Uh, okay.. What's wrong with that site? Some sort of e-war or whatever? I sent you a PM to explain.
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Post by sandrinha on Sept 14, 2008 13:52:07 GMT -5
Cameron having been human or created based on a human sits well with me. Either one i think there is so much more to her then meets the eye and we are just getting started into knowing who is this machine.
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Post by Ronnie on Sept 17, 2008 1:43:56 GMT -5
Here's the Synopsis via SpoilerTV spoilertv.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah-connor-chronicles-episode-204.htmlCLUES FROM CAMERON’S PAST ARE REVEALED ON “TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES” MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, ON FOX
A software glitch causes Cameron to forget who she is. She goes missing from the Connors and is taken in by a street kid named Jody. Cameron and Jody end up at a halfway house where Cameron meets with a social worker who uncovers some of Cameron’s distant memories. Meanwhile, Catherine Weaver meets with Agent Ellison to discuss his future at Zeira Corp, and Ellison does some digging into Weaver’s past in the “Allison from Palmdale” episode of TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES airing Monday, Sept. 29 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (SCC-204) (TV-14 L, V)
Guest Cast: Busy Philipps as Kacy Corbin; Leah Pipes as Jody; Jon Huertas as Trevor; Jillian Armenante as Rita; Garvin Funches as Police Officer; Fay Wolf as Lila; Enrico Natale as Customer; Roberto Sanchez as Desk Sergeant; Jeff Leaf as Helmut; Ralph Cole as Male Prostitute; Amy Tolsky as Housewife; Ali Chen as Secretary; Laura Leyva as Doctor; Ace Gibson as Slacker; Jessica Makinson as Woman/Mrs. Young; Ray Conchado as Security Guard; Mackenzie Smith as Savannah
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