Catherine Weaver's real intentions.

[Alexis]

This 2 possibilities have been spinning around my head for a long time since I've watched Alison From Palmdale.

Now, we have the conversation between John Henry and Weaver in The Good Wound and Weaver's subsequent massacre and destruction of the warehouse.

IMO, we have 2 possible readings of this situation:

1 - The fact that John Henry could have intercepted this conversation through an unsecured line represents a high security risk for a possible Zeira Corp secret operation, therefore it’s necessary to cover all the tracks. This one sounds like the most obvious one.

2 - Less obvious, but also possible: This is a Coltan deposit, presumably run by greys, who work for Skynet, right?
And what if Weaver wouldn’t be working for Skynet? What if she was one of those machines that the TOK-715, later known as Cameron, mentioned before killing Alison? What if Weaver was one of those machines that want peace between humans and cyborgs and she’s trying to change the future by modifying Skynet’s development? And what if what the TOK-715 said to Alison was a stratagem of lies mixed with something that’s actually true and this faction of terminators who want peace really exists?

That would definitely be an unexpected twist

Now, you may say: “Weaver doesn’t want peace between humans and cyborgs, she killed a lot of people!!”

Ok, but didn’t Cameron kill Enrique and those thieves in order to give priority to her mission of protecting John?

That said, the choice and the voice is yours.

[k8ie]

Feb 16, 2009 21:45:04 GMT -5 Alexis said:

What if she was one of those machines that the TOK-715, later known as Cameron

Where did you get that model number for Cameron? IIRC, the show has never stated her model number.

[cyadon]

Feb 16, 2009 22:08:17 GMT -5 k8ie said:

Feb 16, 2009 21:45:04 GMT -5 Alexis said:

What if she was one of those machines that the TOK-715, later known as Cameron

Where did you get that model number for Cameron? IIRC, the show has never stated her model number.

There were some promo posters that showed endoskeleton parts (supposed Cameron's) with registry and model numbers listed. TOK-715 was the model number for her in those posters.

[Alexis]

Feb 16, 2009 22:08:17 GMT -5 k8ie said:

Feb 16, 2009 21:45:04 GMT -5 Alexis said:

What if she was one of those machines that the TOK-715, later known as Cameron

Where did you get that model number for Cameron? IIRC, the show has never stated her model number.

It's just a way to draw a distinction between the terminator before the reprogramming and Cameron.

That name comes from a poster you can find Here.

I think you knew about this, there's even a discussion Here

I don't know how reliable is that poster, but it seems to be only reference we have for her model.

[vicheron]

There's really no evidence suggesting that there is a rogue Terminator faction. It's something that was mentioned only in one line and has never been expanded upon. Even assuming that Weaver is a rogue Terminator, her knowledge seems way too limited.

Considering how much help Weaver needs with John Henry/The Turk, it would seem that her programming/capabilities were intentionally limited. Giving her the knowledge of how to program Skynet and Terminators would make her too powerful.

It's also possible T-1000 Weaver has copied the real Catherine Weaver so perfectly that she's distraught over the loss of Catherine's husband and is now trying to make a Terminator version of so that they could live happily ever after.

[cyadon]

Feb 17, 2009 0:55:24 GMT -5 vicheron said:

There's really no evidence suggesting that there is a rogue Terminator faction. It's something that was mentioned only in one line and has never been expanded upon. Even assuming that Weaver is a rogue Terminator, her knowledge seems way too limited.

Considering how much help Weaver needs with John Henry/The Turk, it would seem that her programming/capabilities were intentionally limited. Giving her the knowledge of how to program Skynet and Terminators would make her too powerful.

It's also possible T-1000 Weaver has copied the real Catherine Weaver so perfectly that she's distraught over the loss of Catherine's husband and is now trying to make a Terminator version of so that they could live happily ever after.

It's really a Terminator version of Bono.

[k8ie]

Feb 17, 2009 0:55:24 GMT -5 vicheron said:

There's really no evidence suggesting that there is a rogue Terminator faction. It's something that was mentioned only in one line and has never been expanded upon. Even assuming that Weaver is a rogue Terminator, her knowledge seems way too limited.

I think the "rouge rogue terminator" faction is explained by the guy in Complications who was teaching Terminators how to lie and interrogate people.

Whoops - the "rouge terminator"faction was last scene organizing a mechanical collective in Quebec City.

[wb5]

It is likely that interrogator-Cameron was lying to Allison (who was lying back in turn though, and is likely one of the main reasons Cameron could be reprogrammed later) with her "Terminator peace faction". The aircraft carrier in the episode, for example, was dubbed "Skynet's ark" by the writers, which seems to indicate Skynet was perfectly in charge of the whole operation.

Having said that, that Weaver wants Ellison to teack "John Henry" is remarkable. What is her game, here? Is she counting on Ellison's religion backfiring, does she want a destructive Skynet with religious delusions about being an "avenging angel" or something like that? Or is it a genuine effort to widen Skynet's horizon, make it understand humans better, maybe even to stop the war before it starts? The latter wouldn't necessarily mean she is of a rogue faction; Skynet seems to be on the verge of losing the war in the future in a lot of timelines, so maybe avoiding the war would suddenly seem like a good idea for the machines in the future. Or, failing that, prepare better by getting to understand how humans think better.

[gothamite66]

I've been thinking about this recently and now I'm starting to wonder if Skynet is working in a similar way as John Connor, in that John Connor sent back Kyle Reese because he knew Kyle was his father.

Maybe Skynet sent CW back in time to develop itself because it knew CW was responsible for it's own development.

We've been making comments about CW's line "Everything I do, I do for you" is very reminiscent of Sarah's story and how their missions are on seemingly parallel paths.

Now I'm toying with the idea that Skynet was developed in the same mind-bending manner that JC came about. Skynet sends back CW because it knows it can't exist if it doesn't. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[t101]

Cameron's original mission was to kill John Connor. So it's pretty clear she lied about the faction that wanted peace.

It's still a mystery as to why would CW want John Henry to be taught human morality though.

[Alexis]

Feb 17, 2009 15:58:28 GMT -5 t101 said:

Cameron's original mission was to kill John Connor. So it's pretty clear she lied about the faction that wanted peace.

It's still a mystery as to why would CW want John Henry to be taught human morality though.

Let's call her "Alison's twin".

What Alison's twin said to real Alison was a lie. That's out of discussion.

I think the most effective lies are the ones mixed with the truth. Besides, most of lies are mostly based on true experiences that make them believable.

I think that's true for a cyborg too.

__________________________

A side note:

I can't understand why all the people keep spelling "Allison" instead of "Alison".



Just pulling your leg.

[allergygal]

It certainly seems like Catherine Weaver is trying to start Skynet with John Henry. But what still complicates it is why she brought in Sherman and then Ellison. If she's just planning to create a super AI computer that can destroy mankind, then why bother with the moral and ethical guidance?

So I sort of agree with the rogue metal idea except I don't think there's actually a faction. If there was, then why wouldn't Catherine have brought a terminator back with her instead of hoping to get her hands on one when she got here? I think Catherine is a lone rebel. She didn't like how Skynet was running things so she sent herself back in time to kick start the super AI her way. What her way is, I'm not sure yet, but it seems to involve raising machines to be a superior versions of humans. Maybe she's aiming for a metal utopia where machines have free will and ethics instead of rigid programming.

[schmacky]

I think Weaver is trying to build Skynet with John Henry and the reason she brought in Sherman and then Ellison to teach the morals and beliefs and everything is make Skynet more efficient. In order for Skynet to completely wipe out humanity and do so quicker than it did in the past (future), it needs to know it's enemy in and out. Just like Uncle Bob had detailed files on human anatomy to make it a more efficient killer, I think Weaver is doing the same thing but psychologically/spiritually/morally/whatever.

[allergygal]

Good point about understanding humans, but I'd think that would be better accomplished by simply interacting with humans, not being taught by them. Or maybe the guidance she asked Sherman and Ellison to give JH was just a ruse to get them to agree to work with him, but they're really just subjects for JH to study?

There's also the issue of JH showing himself to be less efficient, not more, as he developed ("it's taking more time to do less"). Although that was before Sherman got involved, so I guess we don't really know if that's still the case. Certainly the more like a human a machine becomes the less efficient it'll be though.

Now I'm just all confused again. Argh.

[littleb]

Feb 18, 2009 2:16:09 GMT -5 allergygal said:

Good point about understanding humans, but I'd think that would be better accomplished by simply interacting with humans, not being taught by them. Or maybe the guidance she asked Sherman and Ellison to give JH was just a ruse to get them to agree to work with him, but they're really just subjects for JH to study?

They touched on the issue of using humans to better break humans in Complications to go to the darker side of the debate. I think there are some humans whose characteristics would be able to out-evil apocalypse-heralding machines any day. Maybe some people have degenerative depths even the machines wouldn't be able to contemplate (but are more than willing to learn about.)

I always wonder about the morality issue though, Weaver always seems strangely intent on it, which jars with her more traditional slice 'n' dice method of dealing with problems. At times her intentions with JH seem honourable and then she goes and decimates a factory full of humans.

There's also the issue of JH showing himself to be less efficient, not more, as he developed ("it's taking more time to do less"). Although that was before Sherman got involved, so I guess we don't really know if that's still the case. Certainly the more like a human a machine becomes the less efficient it'll be though.
Now I'm just all confused again. Argh.

You and me both! Wasn't there a spoiler somewhere about JH getting involved in a bar fight? Seems he might find out he's not quite as inefficient as a human after all. There's also the question why would Skynet be involved in the sleep clinic? That might tie into the understanding humanity all the better to destroy it theme.