Season 3 Suggestions General Discussion

[Derek Reese]

Apr 9, 2009 22:09:00 GMT -5 timstuff said:

I had an idea for a Season 3 villain: Bad Sarah



It's possible that in the current timeline, Skynet has collected enough data to create a T-888 "double" of Sarah Connor and send her back, in an attempt to replace her and get to John, hopefully for a more interesting reason than simply trying to kill him. Technically this idea has already been done in T2, since the T-1000 planned to and eventually did take the shape of Sarah Connor, but there's something I find intriguing about the idea of an evil terminator who permanently looks like Sarah, stalking the connors. I wouldn't want the "Bad Sarah" storyline to last a whole season, mind you, but I think it could make for a very interesting arc.

Would be interested in seeing that happening in regards to the series.

[aceplace57]

I started this thread a few days before the finale. Thankfully, most of the comments we made are still valid. We got through the finale without losing any major characters. Cameron's cyborg shell is somewhat battered and she is in a chip less coma, but otherwise ok. ;D A new version of Derek is back. He doesn't have a clue who the heck John is. But, he's back.

I wasn't thrilled with John's trip to the future storyline. But, now that they've done it, I hope they keep him there for at least the first three or four episodes. Let John get a taste of real, front line fighting. He'll see the suffering, the piles of mutilated, rotting corpses. He'll grow up fast. This story arc should mirror Sarah's four episode arc in the desert. Both characters are being prepared for the war to come.

I do expect to see the scenes shift back and forth between the present and future. TSCC has always done that. I'd like to see what Ellison, Sarah and Matt Murch are doing. Cameron comes back tethered to the Turk like John Henry was. A mix of present and future stories will work well.

I mentioned earlier in this thread that John needed to mature a couple years before S3. The time jump offers a unique opportunity to do that. John could spend a couple years fighting as a soldier and still return to 2009. Maybe only a few weeks or months after he left.

I understand that the show can't stay in the future too long. We'll be lucky to get four episodes. It's too expensive. When John returns it should be as a man. The boy character will be gone. The experiences in the future change him forever. He's a battle hardened soldier the same as Derek and Kyle. John's transition back to peacetime 2009 shouldn't be easy. John abandoned his comrades in the future to return. That's a tough decision that he'd only make if he had a plan to stop skynet. He's not coming back to hug mommy and play mind games with Cameron. He's coming back, on a military mission, to destroy skynet in the present.

I want to see John emerge from mom's shadow and take charge. I wouldn't mind seeing Sarah pursue her own separate missions. She'd always support John but I don't want Sarah diminished either. Sarah's still got a lot of fight left in her. ;D

Cameron/Allison need to share time in the present. A permanent dual role for Summer would be fantastic. The story has a young, virile male lead and it's time he got a real girlfriend. Someone that can fight by his side and love him at night. ;D If we see John and Allison living together in the future, fighting side by side, they can return to the present as a couple. I think the fans would accept it.

The dynamics of seeing Cameron adjust to Allison's presence offer some great story opportunities. It would be quite a shock for both of them. ;D

Weaver / John Henry - I assume the alliance with John will continue for awhile. Beyond that, I can't speculate or suggest anything. We still don't know their agenda.

Anyway, that's my suggestions for season 3 based on how the second season ended.

I hope they don't send John back 15 minutes into the first episode. I'll be extremely disappointed. The future storyline needs to accomplish something.

[vargatom]

Cameron's the main character, not Allison, so I wouldn't expect the real girl to hang around for too long... as much as I'd agree with your opinion on John and relationships.

[samuel95]

I disagree. We already had Cameron when we got Riley. We got her because couples developing a relationship makes for good tv. Triangles make for better tv. So I count on John getting a new girlfriend, almost getting her or at least trying to get her. Riley was never accepted by the fans, but Allison already has. I think a girlfriend do-over without the risk is a no-brainer. I would expect the 'new' girl to stick around.

How long? Well, everyone dies for John (and Josh uses character deaths to great effect). Maybe we'd agree if we defined too long. I do agree that Cameron is the main character and Allison is merely supporting. Sometimes I think Sarah and John are supporting too--not that I think they should--because Cameron and Summer are so dang popular.

[VALIANT CHAMPION]

I think she will play two roles.

Cameron will get fixed sort of in the past. She will self repair her outer skin with a cable in the back of her head like John Henry.

John will be concerned about leaving the future alone knowing that Allison will get captured and killed. Maybe.

The change in timeline may have distorted everything. Maybe Allison didn't get captured and killed in this new future since John was not around to make her a target.

I wonder when time comes for him, Cat and J.H. to jump back if the past will be the same as they left it.

[terrasj]

The other thing too as I noted on in 2x22, page 37, while John and Weaver jump into the alternate future, they easily could spend years there, 1, 5, or 10, and then easily jump back to minutes after they seemingly left. Sarah would literally have been frozen in time while John aged X amount of time.

Even at the minimalist, John's going to be a few days older when he comes back, and quite possibly mentally several years older from pre-exposure to J-Day conditions. Might help him to mature up a little faster than intended.

Although if we split this chasm too far, and I honestly think Sarah will be a little lost and alienated by John coming back differently than when he went in.

[aceplace57]

The other thing too as I noted on in 2x22, page 37, while John and Weaver jump into the alternate future, they easily could spend years there, 1, 5, or 10, and then easily jump back to minutes after they seemingly left.

I agree he could come back to the same time. But it would wipe out any stories they tell in the past with Sarah, Ellison and the chip less Cameron. I'd prefer seeing him come back a few months later. That way we can see how Ellison deals with the Kaliba Group attack. They won't give up easily.

I think they'll switch back and forth between Future John and present Sarah. That approach has worked well for TSCC. Eventually John will get back. They can't keep the cast split up forever.

[terrasj]

Thats the beauty of it acerplace, it can be a great writer's opportunity to make use of - if used and written wisely.

There's no limit on how long John can or should stay in the future, and there's no specific time or date John has to return to the present.

I agree, they could do it stupidly - feature a few Sarah & Ellison episodes, then overwrite those with John coming back before those events happened. I have to question - why would the writers pull something tasteless like that?

Its been done in other series, they've pulled it a few times in ST Enterprise in which things are either undone or is a dead end.

I suppose the writers could play with killing Sarah for real, (not unlike Sarah's oblivious dream sequence about the sleep clinic), but it'd be a wasted episode, her actual death semi-permanent.

Though as heavily time-travel themed Terminator is (and every send-back alters the time-line for a new loop), that's the one thing I admire about it - the respectful use of the time machine. They haven't been abusing it to blow up Cameron and send a replacement every other episode making her a disposable / replaceable commodity. So I don't see any reason for the writers to start abusing it now to waste a few episodes of non-progression on.

Still, good point there - it would be interesting to see some of Kaliba's men and/or Endo's chase after Sarah, and Sarah having to deal with them or duck, cover and run for her life if she's unable to dispatch them on her own.

As mentioned above, it might give Sarah some second thoughts about having Cameron around. I mean, the Connors, especially Sarah gotten so used to having Cameron around to fight for them, the appreciation was lost on Sarah, to the point of trying to make Cameron leave. Now the irony would be Sarah needing Cameron around more than ever, and Cam's body is chipless and inert.

So yeah, I'd actually enjoy seeing Sarah get into that predicament, and during a brief hiding spot to rest and catch a few hours to eat and sleep while on the run, let her past wishes become regrets. Derek's dead, John's in the future, Cam's offline, Ellison is probably not very useful, so it'd be very reminiscent to her original run in with a Terminator back before John was born (T1), and no Kyle Reese this time either. Maybe a short dream while she's asleep, with her wishes and regrets being the focus. Let it be the lesson learned that having Cameron around (for what she is and represents) is better than not having any protector Terminator around at all.

Also, once John returns, and hopefully with the means to restore Cameron to the persona she's become, I think it'd be interesting to see Sarah having little choice but to accept or live with it- the choices John has already made; to keep Cameron around and with them.

We've already seen Sarah couldn't change John's mind as the timer counted down as she backed out of it, but nor did she try to physically pull John away from it. So on some level, I think Sarah knew she lost, or realized she'll just have to accept it - John being set out to do something he strongly believes in, and there's no changing it.

:edit / addendum:

The other story branch here is Ellison and Savannah. Kaliba's got Savannah on their target list, I can't imagine they'll just give up on trying to kidnap or kill her. Ellison might have his own hands full dodging Kaliba and keeping Savannah safe out of harm's way. Since this time John Henry isn't there to look out for Savannah.

It'll be also interesting to see how John reacts and takes to the J-Day conditions, or the mental toll it puts on him. Talk about a definite culture-shock for John. (should also make for some stories to tell Mom when he gets back).

[schmacky]

I don't know... as much as it's been proven that Sarah doesn't trust Cameron, it's been proven just as much that Sarah has valued what Cameron can do for them and sees her as an asset. I think that was a big difference between Derek and Sarah. They both hated metal, but Sarah saw the Terminator as an asset to be used while Derek just completely hated it and wanted it gone. Sarah's even come to Cameron's rescue a few times. I think it wasn't until Sarah found Cameron unpredictable and unsure of the effect that she was having on John that Sarah started to want her gone.

[vargatom]

Savannah was only important as a lead to Weaver, I guess... but yes, she could still be in danger.

Ellison and Sarah should be on the run together, maybe even chased by a T888. The next logical step for the ex-FBI unbeliever is to start fighting for the resistance... Could also make for an interesting new meeting with ex-collegues or the ex-wife. They'd think he's gone mad
The Danny Dyson plotline is probably also meant for them to explore and there's that new FBI agent too. It'd be a more interesting and eventful storyline than that of Ellison doing errands for Weaver... although it could also mean that it'd take more 3-5 episodes to get the family back together.

And John as a young boy in the future is obviously such a great opportunity...

[t101]

So if John comes back to grow up to be the John Connor it means that in a new altered timeline there will be two John Connors at some point. The one that lived through JD and his younger self who time traveled. Oh my head...

My preference would be that they wrap up the future storyline as fast as possible. But I can't see them do that because of Kyle/Derek/Allison.

[terrasj]

Apr 18, 2009 6:11:54 GMT -5 t101 said:

So if John comes back to grow up to be the John Connor it means that in a new altered timeline there will be two John Connors at some point. The one that lived through JD and his younger self who time traveled. Oh my head...

My preference would be that they wrap up the future storyline as fast as possible. But I can't see them do that because of Kyle/Derek/Allison.

Maybe, maybe not. The future Present!John's in is newly created as John jumping from 2009 to 202x mean his absence during J-day, and someone else is leading the resistance. Soon as Present!John leaves, that future's done as John will be back in the timeline to live through J-Day.

We have to remember there's more than one possible / parallel future, as Jesse and Derek don't come from the exact same futures. So where Present!John traveled to, is yet again a different alternate future.

And I'm curios to who's leading the resistance that nobody knows who John Connor is...

[samuel95]

Apr 18, 2009 0:54:21 GMT -5 terrasj said:

I agree, they could do it stupidly - feature a few Sarah & Ellison episodes, then overwrite those with John coming back before those events happened. I have to question - why would the writers pull something tasteless like that?

They don't have to do it tastelessly. But if Ellison and/or Sarah do anything of significance, then it's a historical fact for John in the future. Assuming he goes back, it wouldn't be smart to go back to a time before they did things right. Going back will change something and could just screw it all up. It would be smart to go back to a time and place before they get it wrong in order to fix it.

Then again, he may not have a choice as to when and where he goes back, just like his jump forward. That's actually the story I'd like to see.

[timstuff]

Apr 17, 2009 8:59:37 GMT -5 aceplace57 said:

Cameron/Allison need to share time in the present. A permanent dual role for Summer would be fantastic. The story has a young, virile male lead and it's time he got a real girlfriend. Someone that can fight by his side and love him at night. ;D If we see John and Allison living together in the future, fighting side by side, they can return to the present as a couple. I think the fans would accept it.

"Fans would accept it?" Well let me cast my cast my vote right now and say NO! Allison is the perfect opportunity to test John's feelings for Cameron, since "on paper" she should be the perfect solution to John's problem-- she's a human girl that looks like Cameron. But then again, that's just the problem-- she only LOOKS like Cameron. I think Allison's purpose in the story will be to show that John is mature, and his feelings for Cameron are real. If John actually went with Allison though, it would show that he ultimately is shallow, and only ever cared about Cameron because of how she looked on the outside.

There are several other problems that would arise in a John / Allison relationship as well. We already pretty much know John loves Cameron, so what happens if he gives up his search for her, and jumps into a relationship with a girl who looks just like her? Don't you think Allison deserves better than to be with a boy who's going to think about someone else every time he touches her?

Also, John's entire reason for going into the future was to get Cameron back. If he suddenly decides he's going to "upgrade" to a human who he's only just met, then he might as well just give up his search for Cameron because he never really wanted her in the first place.

Basically, John leaving Cameron for Allison = bad storytelling. John being tested by Allison, but ultimately choosing Cameron, = good storytelling. If John fails the test though, it would only prove that he never actually cared about her, and that he was only lusting after her body. I do not want John to turn out to be a shallow, disloyal jerk, and that's what he'll be if he succumbs to the temptations that Allison will bring into his life. If John chose Allison and still had the nerve to bring Cameron back, then it would be the ultimate slap in the face to Cam. Pretty much, John would be saying "Anyone but you. Heck, I'd even take a girl who looks just like you, as long as she's not you."

Apr 17, 2009 8:59:37 GMT -5 aceplace57 said:

The dynamics of seeing Cameron adjust to Allison's presence offer some great story opportunities. It would be quite a shock for both of them. ;D

We already had the "love triangle" with Riley. Cameron's loyalty to John was tested, and she passed. Given that Cameron already killed Allison once though, if I was the latter I wouldn't press my luck.

[k8ie]

Apr 18, 2009 11:06:38 GMT -5 timstuff said:

"Fans would accept it?" Well let me cast my cast my vote right now and say NO! Allison is the perfect opportunity to test John's feelings for Cameron, since "on paper" she should be the perfect solution to John's problem-- she's a human girl that looks like Cameron. But then again, that's just the problem-- she only LOOKS like Cameron. I think Allison's purpose in the story will be to show that John is mature, and his feelings for Cameron are real. If John actually went with Allison though, it would show that he ultimately is shallow, and only ever cared about Cameron because of how she looked on the outside.

I hate Jameron with the fire of a thousand suns (I will spare you the elucidation of the reasons why) but Cameron is to me, and I quote, "a unique entity" who cannot simply be replaced by someone who looks like her. There are many possible reasons why the writers would have reintroduced Allison (my suspicion is that they wanted to create a circumstance where John is offered everything he ever wanted at a the worst possible cost: everything he ever had) but I doubt simply replacing the robot with a real girl so they can run a romance storyline for Dekker and Glau to play is one of them.