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Post by thecolours on Mar 27, 2009 23:11:22 GMT -5
I enjoy this show much more, when I'm watching via my DVR. Watching it live, is sooooo brutal. The commercials kill the shows momentum. It also didn't help that the pacing was off in this episode. Each scene, before the commercial break, felt like it just ended prematurely.
Also, I wish the writers would have added more red shirts for Cameron to kill at the port. I felt cheated by that whole sequence. Same thing with John and Charlie running to the boat. That scene should have been in real time. It would have added some intensity to a pretty slow episode. Enough with trying to be artsy. At some point you have to deliver on the Terminator name. By no means, am I one of those people who cares only about the action. I understand there's budgetary limitations. The action sequences could have been more executed better.
Mini Rant. I don't know what it is, but I always end up feeling slightly let down by Natalie's episodes in season 2. The tension just isn't there.
Other than that, I loved it. Honestly!
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 27, 2009 23:14:06 GMT -5
You pretty much summed up my feelings, bro.
It's not that I disliked the episode, I just disliked the execution of it.
Co-sign.
The scenary reminded me of season one... and I loved it. That's probably the best part about this episode. The setting was awesome.
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Post by stealthgear on Mar 27, 2009 23:17:10 GMT -5
How did Miles Dyson exist in 1997? Did they totally screw up the T2 timeline or what???
**Confused**What does cyberdyne have to do with this ep. I thought it was just code that was originally inside the John Henry A.I. and his T-800 chip. Did Cyberdyne plant a worm inside John Henry? Is it still there?
Building up a story about going to Charlie's and then killing him was one of the stupidest, childest things ever. I don't think of him as a hero because it wasn't his war!!!
I thought John Henry scenes were brilliant.
They killed the dog? Thats randomly atrocious. I'm more horrified about a random dog character than Charlie. This is up there with the derek/jesse torture scenes as being super morally corrupt.
Chip in Sarah's boob? LOL. What the hell.
Charlie's house was cool. John Henry & the girl was amazing, even the connection to cyberdyne might be sweet. Awesome. Everything else = bad bad.
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Post by aceplace57 on Mar 27, 2009 23:18:20 GMT -5
It was a good episode. The manipulation of Sarah's character and Charlie's death left a bad taste. Sarah deserves better treatment from the writers.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 27, 2009 23:20:34 GMT -5
This episode reminds me of newer episodes of Family Guy. They waste about half of the show doing things not important to the real plot. They need to speed things up and cut down on the unnecessary stuff.
It is great that they're bringing back the connection with Cyberdyne. The idea that Skynet was created by technology from the future is a very important aspect of the series.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Mar 27, 2009 23:51:22 GMT -5
The dog would've tried (if it didn't already) attacking the men or metals that went to Charlie's lighthouse. Thats a problem so the dog was dealt with. We don't know if all those grey-uniform guys are humans, or if some of them are indeed metal.
The house was silent when Charlie came in, then he checked the house alarm - probably set it back from silent mode, and it went off..
Its either that, or don't introduce a dog in the first place. The dog made sense, being Charlie adopted a pet companion to keep him company after his wife's death. In addition, dogs are good early warnings for T888 detection. The dog would've alerted Charlie if there was a T888 at the door.
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 28, 2009 0:05:09 GMT -5
Yeah, the dog being killed was going too far for me.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 28, 2009 1:07:56 GMT -5
I wonder if they're going to further retcon the movie. Miles Dyson didn't work on a computer program, he worked on the neural net processor. Skynet wasn't created until the neural net processor was proven to be successful. I suppose it is possible that Skynet sent back a Miles Dyson Terminator or maybe the T-1000 somehow reconstituted itself.
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Post by potomac79 on Mar 28, 2009 1:54:46 GMT -5
I think that the Cyberdyne trail in the code is due to Andy Goode. After all, he interned there for a year (even in this timeline). His core code could easily find its way into both John Henry and the other A.I. since they share a common author. If we then extend that to assuming that Dyson's name would be attached to the project code headers because of his position on the project, then the connection could be made. I hope Savannah wasn't too traumatized by the playtime SNAFU. I like her and John Henry. They connect in much the same way that JH and Ellison don't. Here's an excerpt from my blog because I'm tired typing: Poor Charley. Sarah tried to manipulate him to always be there for John—as if his loyalty for John was ever a question. Instead, by taking that detour to the coast, she signed Charley's death warrant. He, and the dog, deserved better. Still, at least Charley got to have a noble death. Among the hundreds, if not thousands, who would die for John Connor, he was the first. This valor is even greater because he'd have done it even if John was just John...no other reason was necessary.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 28, 2009 2:01:08 GMT -5
The problem is that in T2, Dyson wasn't writing a program. He was trying to make a neural net processor.
Also, Andy made the Turk 10 years after the destruction of Cyberdyne and this Turk was made from scratch after the destruction of the first one.
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Post by punkmaister on Mar 28, 2009 2:04:23 GMT -5
I think that the Cyberdyne trail in the code is due to Andy Goode. After all, he interned there for a year (even in this timeline). His core code could easily find its way into both John Henry and the other A.I. since they share a common author. If we then extend that to assuming that Dyson's name would be attached to the project code headers because of his position on the project, then the connection could be made. I hope Savannah wasn't too traumatized by the playtime SNAFU. I like her and John Henry. They connect in much the same way that JH and Ellison don't. Here's an excerpt from my blog because I'm tired typing: Poor Charley. Sarah tried to manipulate him to always be there for John—as if his loyalty for John was ever a question. Instead, by taking that detour to the coast, she signed Charley's death warrant. He, and the dog, deserved better. Still, at least Charley got to have a noble death. Among the hundreds, if not thousands, who would die for John Connor, he was the first. This valor is even greater because he'd have done it even if John was just John...no other reason was necessary. You are right it surprised me that Sarah so blatantly signed Charlie's death warrant for all intended purposes, she did not seem that shooked about it either when she saw his corpse floating around. She is killing off those she can trust and shunning away those she think she cannot.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Mar 28, 2009 2:14:02 GMT -5
Poor Charley. Sarah tried to manipulate him to always be there for John—as if his loyalty for John was ever a question. Instead, by taking that detour to the coast, she signed Charley's death warrant. He, and the dog, deserved better. Still, at least Charley got to have a noble death. Among the hundreds, if not thousands, who would die for John Connor, he was the first. This valor is even greater because he'd have done it even if John was just John...no other reason was necessary. I'm sorry but that's utter crap. The only reason Charley is dead is because there was a friggin' tracking device in Sarah's breast. As if she knew that or could have even known! And when she did, it was too damn late. It's not like she purposefully put Charley in danger.. what the frak...
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DEM
Refugee
I'm Kilroy.
Posts: 94
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Post by DEM on Mar 28, 2009 4:20:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry but that's utter crap. The only reason Charley is dead is because there was a friggin' tracking device in Sarah's breast. Karma times fifty trillion.
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Post by littleb on Mar 28, 2009 4:59:01 GMT -5
That was an exciting episode. Congrats to AG and K8ie for figuring out the embedded chip ahead of time. <LOL> Props are indeed due. Let the gloating commence If the bad guys have been tracking them since SMW, maybe they were just waiting for an opportune moment - divide and conquer. Wait for the group to split and go for them while they're vulnerable. That was an utterly gorgeous scene and the actors hit it out of the ball park. There was loads of good stuff in this ep. I know people are complaining about the pacing but <shrugs> I can wait for the bullets to fly if we have such excellent character writing to be going on with. Reminded me a lot of the best bits of Season 1 - voice overs, pancakes, flashbacks, Sarah and John not being at each others' throats, kitchen table moments. I've only seen the ep through once, but I liked it a lot. Loved the "bug slug" scene, it just made me grin like an idiot. YMMMV from me. I liked what we were given. Who knows, maybe when a woman thinks she's terminally ill and is going to leave her son to his fate, maybe it'd make her reminisce a little? BTW - Derek, Cameron. Was that a basement reference when she untied him? Harsh. Very harsh. I don't think we were watching the same episode. I don't think for a second she was taking John away permanently. I think she needed a little breathing space for them both, away from Cameron and Derek. She already knew about the lump in her breast. She's thinking she's terminally ill - with good reason, given what she knows about her own fate - and she takes him to the only person she knows who has given her no reason to doubt him. Charley treated her like crap when she turned up and she took it, because she was there for John, not herself. Listen to what she says to Charley when she tells him about the cancer, listen to the way she says it. She knows she can depend on Charley to look out for John, she can trust him not to let her down and those are all things she can't say about Cam or Derek at that point. Takes a lot to make Sarah come undone and she does in that scene. Derek is the reason they're moving. He's done an awful lot recently to deserve Sarah's mistrust. I'm just sorry Sarah didn't have a tant at him on the way out. She was actually a lot more restrained than I expected. Cameron well, she keeps a lot of secrets and she's glitchy, I don't think it's anything to do Sarah being jealous, and her not trusting Cameron isn't a new thing. They took an awful lot of effort to establish how protected Charley's house was, it was practically a fortress. I don't think Sarah can be blamed for what happened. It wasn't like she knew that the lump in her breast was actually a transmitter flashing out her location - I mean, seriously, she's supposed to guess that?! All she knows is that she's probably going to die or at least get very sick, and the only people hanging out with her son are people she can't depend on. I liked how understated Charley's death was. No big dying in a hail of bullets, screaming "no, Johnny, you go, leave me!" Just evidence of the fight, a missing boat and Charley floating in the water. There was a terrible inevitability about it all, which just made it more poignant. Have a sneaky feeling that his next message may be "just unplug yourself from that little console. It's okay... I've got you..." Is it Kaliba doing the hacking? I honestly have no idea. It probably wouldn't do him much good. It's usually fatal in the movies but in real life, people don't tend to do it!
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Mar 28, 2009 5:22:17 GMT -5
- This episode felt like it had no climax. I was surprised when it ended, like there was something left undone. I'm not all about action either, but, the John & Charlie scene should have been pure action for the sake of action.
- Sarah Connor playing family should have been condensed. No, it's not that I don't like Sarah Connor, the execution was just too drawn out. I felt like they could have saved several minutes by cutting the Sarah Connor meaningful looks in half and using them for Cameron and Derek talking torture in the basement.
- Cameron scenes should have been more 'Cromartie at the police station' style. The episode could have used action.
- Is it Sarah's fault that Charlie died? No and yes. Of course she couldn't have predicted the tracking device. On the other hand she clearly knew what she was dragging him into, clear from all their conversations. Charlie had nothing more to give but his life, Sarah had no right to ask that of him.
This episode has definitely brought out the flaw in Sarah Connor. There is more to Derek and Charlie than John Connor, there is more to every human being than John Connor.
Oh, Sarah... No one is ever going to be that trustworthy. John is going to have to learn to work with different people, and that involves giving and forgiving and not just taking. John is going to have to lead people and most of them are going to be more like Derek and less like... Cameron. How ironic but the only person that's never going to choose themselves over John is a machine or Sarah herself.
She is so worried that John is way too close to Cameron in the future. Well, maybe that's not Cameron's fault, maybe it's Sarah's.
Oh, I do get it. She wanted to leave John with someone she deems worthy before she dies. The problem is she can't keep sheltering him, it's not possible and it's counterproductive.
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