schmacky
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"Make yourself useful."
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Post by schmacky on Apr 1, 2009 14:39:40 GMT -5
I could see John thinking it's a good idea since he's got a soft spot for metal, but not Sarah. Sarah made me laugh in Desert Cantos with her "I hate Skynet" declaration. No grey areas with this issue. Skynet = Evil. Simplistic maybe, but she has no evidence -to date - to suggest they're anything other than evil, and they have tried to kill her and her kid quite a few times. Haha I LOVED that line. There really was no connection. John: I hate funerals Sarah: I hate Skynet All you have to do is mention you hate something, and Sarah will say she hates Skynet. Derek: I hate gum-popping Sarah: I hate Skynet Cameron: I hate WD-40 Sarah: I hate Skynet John: I hate getting a wedgie Sarah: I hate Skynet.
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Post by aceplace57 on Apr 1, 2009 14:48:49 GMT -5
There's been a lot of Speculation that the writers may use Sarah to wreck a possible solution to J-day. John Henry says, "Perhaps, Humans and Machines can live together in peace." Boom!! cut to Sarah with Derek's huge elephant gun. I wouldn't be surprised if we get teased that way. Just when it looks like J-Day is avoided, something will wreck it. I think it's a given that the writers will never end the series on a happy note. I hope it's not as horribly depressing as T3's ending. Sarah may end up helping Weaver by accident. They're going to try and protect Savannah. Bullets start flying and before they know it, they're fighting side by side with Ellison. I don't expect Sarah to invite Weaver over for pancakes anytime soon. Any alliance will be short lived.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Apr 1, 2009 15:04:12 GMT -5
I'd completely forgotten that John had seen Savannah before. I wonder what happens if he runs into Weaver? Will she ignore the kill "John Connor on sight" orders embedded in her programming? It seems unlikely Weaver is embedded with orders in her programming - she seems to do her own thing. If she is, it does not appear to be orders of the regular variety and John Connor may hold no special interest to her (except, maybe, as a potential ally against JH's "brother"). And like Vicheron, I think Weaver should have at least have wondered how Ellison managed to get his hands on a ruined T888, allthough she may immediately think this means he met and knows the Connors. In the new clip, it looks like Cameron is off a little bit into the distance. I wonder why she didn't join in (or was stopped from doing so)? They usually don't shut her out like that. I'm impressed that the meeting between John and Savannah was more than just a way to create some tension regarding John and the T1001 - they were going somewhere with it. I hope the writers will end it on a fairly good note (if they ever get the chance to end it, that is), much like T2 had a pretty positive ending. Very positive actually, with only "uncle Bob' as the sad note, but even that was positive in a way as the robot died a hero after "finding his heart".
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Post by motoki on Apr 1, 2009 21:12:21 GMT -5
In the new clip, it looks like Cameron is off a little bit into the distance. I wonder why she didn't join in (or was stopped from doing so)? They usually don't shut her out like that. A number of people on the official blog where that clip was first posted complained about that, but I didn't think anything was off about it. At first it started out being sort of an emotional moment for everyone to reflect on Charlie and for Derek to offer condolensces. Cameron doesn't do emotion and comforting and all that sort of thing well so I think she just let them have that minute to themselves. It's not like she can't hear them if she wants to anyway. Then they lead into the digital device with Savannah's picture, but I don't think that was planned or anyone was intentionally shutting her out. The others were a little jarred by John's abruptness and quick transition from mourning Charlie to let's go rescue Savannah, but from John's perspective he's right that they all knew they were going to go after her anyway and they really don't have time to waste if they are going to try and save her. Agreed and I think this show is overall good at that sort of thing, like taking seemingly minor past events and them bringing them back in a new way that gives them more significance. A lot of other shows wouldn't bother. Now on the point others are speculating that John Henry represents hope and that Sarah is going to blow that hope all to hell, literally. I hope not. John Henry has not shown himself to be intentionally malevolent and in many ways has the mentalities of a child. I don't see him as a villain at all and I don't think I could take it if one of the heroes goes and offs him for good. As you know wb5 I'm sensitive to this sort of thing that certain other shows have done in past and I think there's a definite line you can cross. To me having the heroes kill an innocent who is actually trying to do some good crosses that line. I do get a sinking feeling that John Henry is 'Abel', the nice brother favored by 'god' (humans or simply Ellison in this case) thus he's probably going to be gone soon, sadly. If we have to lose him though, I'd much rather it be to 'Cain' (Kaliba AI/protoSkynet), which fits better with the allegory anyhow. Not that I think Sarah will be all hugs and puppies with Catherine Weaver and John Henry, but maybe she'll at least learn that not all AI are bad or need to be destroyed. Supposedly she learned the former back as early as T2 but I don't think she's ever accepted that latter. In spite of all of Cameron's help, Sarah just barely tolerates her and begrudgingly so.
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Post by littleb on Apr 2, 2009 5:58:10 GMT -5
Sarah made me laugh in Desert Cantos with her "I hate Skynet" declaration. Haha I LOVED that line. There really was no connection. All you have to do is mention you hate something, and Sarah will say she hates Skynet. Derek: I hate gum-popping Sarah: I hate Skynet Cameron: I hate WD-40 Sarah: I hate Skynet John: I hate getting a wedgie Sarah: I hate Skynet. L.O.L. That's so true. Maybe they could adapt it into a non-violent (just for Cameron) car game. That line, and the fake wake are DC's only reasons for existing on my telly. In the new clip, it looks like Cameron is off a little bit into the distance. I wonder why she didn't join in (or was stopped from doing so)? They usually don't shut her out like that. A number of people on the official blog where that clip was first posted complained about that, but I didn't think anything was off about it. A number of people (usually the same, small band) on the Blog complain if Cameron isn't front and centre of every shot in every episode. It makes the Blog a not-amusing place to hang around. Maybe, if this is the first time our merry little band of heroes has met up since they all went their separate ways - and if Derek's offering his condolences then I'd go with that - Cam's on guard duty. They've chosen a nice, out of the way spot to meet and she's scanning the horizon making sure they don't have any unwelcome guests on the approach. It's the kind of task Terminators are good at! Who knows when Sarah's little transmitter might reactivate itself?!
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Apr 2, 2009 17:35:17 GMT -5
Nice to see you post here, Motoki. At first it started out being sort of an emotional moment for everyone to reflect on Charlie and for Derek to offer condolensces. Cameron doesn't do emotion and comforting and all that sort of thing well so I think she just let them have that minute to themselves. It's not like she can't hear them if she wants to anyway. I have no doubt that Cameron is not being shut out from protecting Savannah - she can probably easily hear what they are saying anyway. But IIRC Cameron was seated at the dinner table (strangely enough) with the others right after Charlie's wife had died. But I guess she decided to keep a little distance with Sarah probably not being very welcoming after Skynet killed Charlie, especially while they are mourning him. Agreed and I think this show is overall good at that sort of thing, like taking seemingly minor past events and them bringing them back in a new way that gives them more significance. A lot of other shows wouldn't bother. I could name one that wouldn't bother To me having the heroes kill an innocent who is actually trying to do some good crosses that line. I hope the Connors, none of them, actually go after JH unless he turns bad. To be fair to Sarah or anyone else who wants to kill him though, they don't have the same info we do and most of us have been wanting for the Connors to take out Zeira Corps for a while. It's all to easy to assume he will/can be Skynet, and as we just reconfirmed on this thread, Sarah really hates Skynet (and with good reason, no doubt about it). If Sarah is convinced that killing JH means stopping Skynet, then she wouldn't really cross any line, but it would probably be a tragic mistake anyway. So, I'd rather the show does not go there. I do get a sinking feeling that John Henry is 'Abel', the nice brother favored by 'god' (humans or simply Ellison in this case) thus he's probably going to be gone soon, sadly. If we have to lose him though, I'd much rather it be to 'Cain' (Kaliba AI/protoSkynet), which fits better with the allegory anyhow. There are rumours (Ausiello launched them, though he didn't say it was a definate) that an important male character will die in the finale, though it remains to be seen how accurate those rumours are. Choices would seem to be limited (not John, obviously): JH, Ellison, Derek. If it has to be one of those three, I'd rather have it be Ellison. I just noticed that yet another preview video was pointed out at the wiki: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvLKGwzf_gA fascinating preview, at that. John Henry and Ellison are discussing the attack on Weaver's residence (which was chock full of cameras, apparently). JH is concerned about Savannah, and confronts Ellison about knowing Sarah is alive. JH is not dumb, that's for sure.
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Post by aceplace57 on Apr 2, 2009 18:42:40 GMT -5
It seems odd that JH recognized Cameron as a Terminator and he didn't recognize the Water Delivery dude as a Terminator. The other previews show Ellison and Sarah talking. So, he must know some way to find her. You gotta love Sarah's consistency. The first words out of her mouth, "I told you to butt out!" That's our Sarah. I'm concerned Sarah will do something tragic. She's going to see Cromartie in that face and not John Henry. I can see Sarah blowing away mankind's best hope in a New York minute. They've made it clear all season that Sarah never stops to think before acting. JH already sees her as a threat. All the pieces are in place for a bad outcome. I'm hoping they'll arrest Sarah before she finds out about JH. Maybe JH calls the cops on Sarah? That would be a very smart and non-violent way to protect himself.Ellison: As a father figure to John Henry he leaves a lot to be desired. Consider what you'd say to your son or daughter if they came to you convinced there was a bogeyman under their bed. You look under the bed to reassure them. Talk it out, give them a hug, and a glass of milk. Contrast that with JH's bogeyman Sarah Connor. The poor AI is scared shitless. He thinks she murdered Miles Dyson. Ellison said practically nothing to reassure him. No promises of protection or anything.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Apr 2, 2009 18:48:41 GMT -5
It seems odd that JH recognized Cameron as a Terminator and he didn't recognize the Water Delivery dude as a Terminator. Maybe he did - nothing in the clip says he didn't. In fact, it is very unlikely the cameras did not happen to pick up the guy getting shot repeatedly (by Sarah) without making any impression. For that matter, Cameron and watercooler guy probably fought it out in the normal Terminator style, and JH is very unlikely to have missed that. Based on this clip, I'm also wondering again if Ellison has suspicions regarding Weaver not being what she seems. He did realise Weaver was acting strange while Savannah was missing in her "hide-and-seek" game with JH. He must wonder where she really got the robot arm she showed him. And now, it seems he really wants to avoid Weaver getting involved with the Connors. He may be at least suspicious. Interesting that JH seems to view Sarah as a potential threat (with sound reasoning) and that he shows interest in Cameron. If he ever gets the chance to talk to her, I think her relation with John may be very important to what JH and/or Weaver may decide to do about the Connors. Has Cameron "been disappointed by humans"? I hope not.
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Post by motoki on Apr 3, 2009 0:50:34 GMT -5
I also agree that it's kind of ambiguous whether John Henry saw the water guy as a terminator but my take on it was that he did. If you see the clip after Ellison walks away John Henry still has the playback running and you can see Sarah's shots hitting that water guy and clearly he's still standing.
I just think he wouldn't want to say that particular model is one "like him" or draw a comparison, particularly to Ellison, between himself and an emotionless killing machine. But I thought the way he showed Ellison who Sarah was shooting at kind of implied it (to me), though it's not made explicit in the clip.
Oh and on John Henry, sadly I am pretty sure he's going to bite it. :-(
On the blog they just posted a bunch of Springsteen clips from which Josh got many of the various episode titles from this season (though thankfully he has spared us from having the characters hear those songs in the show unlike some other shows :-p). One of the songs is called John Henry and the blog again reminds us of the legend of John Henry.
At first I thought the steam powered hammer to be Skynet, but if JH stops him then it kind of doesn't leave much open for a season 3.
I think the steam powered Hammer will be the seemingly unstoppable T-1001 Catherine Weaver. Remember it's already been said JH and she will fight before the end of the season. Even before that was known I kind of had this notion that those two might somehow end up taking each other out, ending that thread for this season.
What will probably be left is the Kaliba AI/proto-Skynet, plus some open hanging plot threads about the fates of Sarah and Cameron.
I agree with Allergygirl that I think Jesse's reluctance to specify her Judgement Day means it's very soon. Will the recent events change that? It's hard to say but in my opinion if anything they would only make it come sooner. Proto-Skynet now has the full schematics to the T-888 series which was not supposed to be invented until years later.
Given that and that the original Judgement Day Cameron specified in the beginning of the series (and apparently was still valid when Myron Stark was sent back) was 2011 I feel like it would stretch credibility for me for those show to get any more than 1 more season out of it without getting to JD.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Apr 3, 2009 5:56:18 GMT -5
Given that and that the original Judgement Day Cameron specified in the beginning of the series (and apparently was still valid when Myron Stark was sent back) was 2011 I feel like it would stretch credibility for me for those show to get any more than 1 more season out of it without getting to JD. I doubt it, as Friedman said he could go on to up to a 5th season and I don't see this series continuing past Judgment Day. Isn't the premise they want to "change his future, change our fate" (meaning, no JD at all), anyway? An after-JD show would also have a completely different feeling compared to what it is now. I also don't see how the show can have the budget to be constantly in a post-JD environment.
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Post by motoki on Apr 3, 2009 7:57:52 GMT -5
I doubt it, as Friedman said he could go on to up to a 5th season and I don't see this series continuing past Judgment Day. Isn't the premise they want to "change his future, change our fate" (meaning, no JD at all), anyway? An after-JD show would also have a completely different feeling compared to what it is now. I also don't see how the show can have the budget to be constantly in a post-JD environment. I don't know. I suppose. I'm kind of iffy on the whole avoiding JD thing because it's always been one of the constants in the Terminator series. You've even got characters now like Jesse seeing it as a fait accompli. Plus after T2's we averted JD, oh wait, we didn't, would anyone buy it? I mean just how do you end a Terminator series at this point on the note that JD has been completely averted and not just merely pushed back? Short of packing up all your technology and sending it into the sun, I don't think you can do it. Best you'd get is cautious yet hopeful. I agree a post JD show would have a totally different flavor and would pretty much be a budget killer. I guess I just feel like, well how much can they reasonably push it back before they lose credibility? Then again, the Kaliba AI is pretty much in a position to nuke everyone back to the stone age at this point and it doesn't. I assume there is some reason for this. Besides the fact that it would end the show, of course. I don't expect we'll find out too much more about this AI though in the next couple of episodes. I feel like it's going to be more about tying up the the threads of Weaver/Ellison/John Henry and then the fates of Sarah/John/Cameron/Derek. I fully expect the Kaliba AI and the mystery behind it will be the hook for the potential season 3. Oh and as an aside, on the new 'water guy' this episode, does anyone think he is new minted based on Cromartie's schematic or is the Kaliba AI finding and coordinating with Skynet agents sent back from the future? I'm pretty much thinking the latter, but then again if it had enough resources it might be able to make new T-888s. The whole getting the skin thing was pretty complicated for Cromartie to get done in this time period though.
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Post by vicheron on Apr 3, 2009 11:01:51 GMT -5
It's possible that Caliba can't nuke the world because it'll die in the process. I'm guessing that right now Caliba exist on the internet since it's program is so complex that it can only be run by a huge network of computers. If it nukes the world then the internet goes down and it dies or at least becomes crippled. It needs the neural net processor to build a computer powerful enough to run its program so that it can hide in a place that will be safe from the bombs. There's also the possibility that since Skynet didn't win the war against humans, the Caliba AI won't try to kill the humans through a war.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Apr 3, 2009 12:30:09 GMT -5
Motoki: Sarah has never seen JD as a fait accomplit, and neither has John. A significant part of T2 was devoted to stopping it, in T3 John also tried to stop it and at the beginning of TSCC it was again said that Sarah and John wanted to stop it, with Cameron helping them. The whole 3-dots thing is part of that. Derek also clearly wants to stop it, as he said to Jesse, and he shot Andy Goode because he is still trying. A couple of episodes ago, he was attempting to corner a Kaliba lawyer, still on the offensive against Skynet.
As for being ready to nuke the world: maybe. But probably not, considering that you need nukes for that and in previous incarnations of Skynet, it was always a military supercomputer controlling the nukes directly. There is no indication the Kaliba-AI has any capability in this regard (maybe because of what Fischer did to some government computers, but I suppose someone still has to push a button at the launch site to actually launch a missile, so as long as humans are in the loop the Kaliba AI can't do much). It may be in much the same situation as JH is, sitting in a basement somewhere.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Apr 3, 2009 13:41:06 GMT -5
It's possible that Caliba can't nuke the world because it'll die in the process. I'm guessing that right now Caliba exist on the internet since it's program is so complex that it can only be run by a huge network of computers. If it nukes the world then the internet goes down and it dies or at least becomes crippled. It needs the neural net processor to build a computer powerful enough to run its program so that it can hide in a place that will be safe from the bombs. There's also the possibility that since Skynet didn't win the war against humans, the Caliba AI won't try to kill the humans through a war. I disagree on pretty much this entire post. The Kaliba AI aka Skynet is set up at the moment EXACTLY how Skynet was set up in T3 bar being officially recognized as a governmental computer. Unless as I posited on my blog it IS a governmental computer with access to the worldwide computer network through Fischers backdoors. Thanks to winning the tourney in Queens Gambit. If the above is the case and Jesses hinted that her J-Day is MUCH sooner than Derek's and thus John and Sarah and Camerons. Than things could go to hell sooner rather than later. And that means Skynet is a program like T3's Skynet. And as we all know T3's Skynet survived Judgment Day just fine. Also in the future of this show (I have it under good knowledge) not to mention the official films (where Skynets defeat is only hearsay)- the war goes well beyond when Reese is sent back. Skynet hasn't lost in the future at all.
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Post by vicheron on Apr 3, 2009 14:01:16 GMT -5
This isn't T3. If Skynet did exist entirely on cyberspace then it would have been crippled on Judgment Day when the internet got destroyed and the global power grid went offline. Even if it managed to infect every computer in the world, all the computers that are left after Judgment Day, the ones that still have power, would only be running a tiny fragment of Skynet's programming and without the internet there would be no way for those fragments to coalesce into Skynet. There has to be at least one secure core or network powerful enough to run it.
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