rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Dec 18, 2008 18:15:27 GMT -5
Because every once in a while I like to come up with a doozy of a post here's something I was just thinking about.
There seem to be 3 schools of thought on Jesse.
A: She's on a Mission for members of the Resistance that are questioning Connors allegiance about his use of machines to combat Skynet (whether it'sworking or not).
B: She's a Grey herself on a mission from Skynet to do whatever she can to destabilize or even take out as many of the Connor clan as possible.
C: She's Using Riley she intends to gets Johns infatuation off Cameron and onto humanity under the assumption that it will improve Johns leadership in the future.
I want to posit at least one more option.
A very dangerous option.
What if she has come back through time to kill John, because of his perceived ineptitude in leadership in the future. Thus enabling a better warrior, someone who's fought the war already and knows the enemy to take over leadership of the Resistance.
Derek Reese would be a good candidate.
Knowing that this is not very likely it is more to spark debate than anything else, but it's something about as sick and twisted that Jesse would come up with it.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Dec 18, 2008 18:27:19 GMT -5
I would think she'd kill him by now.
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Post by allergygal on Dec 18, 2008 18:31:06 GMT -5
What if she has come back through time to kill John, because of his perceived ineptitude in leadership in the future. Thus enabling a better warrior, someone who's fought the war already and knows the enemy to take over leadership of the Resistance. The problem with that is that she's had ample opportunity to kill John. Any time she was shooting a surveillance photo of him, she could have been shooting a gun at him.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Dec 18, 2008 18:47:52 GMT -5
Easier even. She could get Riley to call him out alone somewhere like she did many times. Or neglect that alarm code like happened with the thieves and Jesse could get in and do anything she wanted in the house.
I'd say though after she sees her plot with Riley fail she might try something radical and irrational.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Dec 18, 2008 18:57:57 GMT -5
"The truth is inside of you..."That sounds much like "The truth is out there", don't you think? Was it a "blink" to the X-Files fans? Besides the UFO topic, did anybody notice that the song when Sarah was driving while listening the record was REALLY similar to the ones on The X-Files? I think this is a very smart move on behalf of TSCC's creative crew. They really created such a subliminal message (behind the explicit stuff like UFO/Drones, hypnosis, etc., of course) for the old fans of The X-Files to feel a little bit of nostalgia and maybe getting them interested on friday nights again... That might be fairly clever of them, huh? By the way, until "The Good Wound" comes out, I'll keep wondering whether "the truth is out there" or if "the truth is inside" Sarah's mind... Maybe a mix of both... The X-Files feel was entirely intentional. Writer Natalie Chaidez addressed it in The Official Blog. Oh good call about the "the truth is in you" being perhaps the suggestion that the truth is inside Sarah. I was hoping the "are they nightmares or are they memories" line was a hint that Sarah already knows something about all this (and doesn't remember) and we'll find out how when the show comes back. With the parallels between Sarah and Abraham/Alan/Eileen being so strong, "the truth is in you" could be another clue towards that idea. I still haven't the slightest idea how she could know anything, but that's part of the reason why I hope she does — there would have to be some cool backstory. Wow!! She paraphrased it at the end of her post! "The Truth is… well, you know the rest…". And she deliberately left the quote incomplete!! So, definitely that might be a clue for us... "The truth is..." inside Sarah?? Oh yeah, there might be a cool backstory waiting to come out on february That would be great!! Thank you for the link!
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Dec 18, 2008 19:02:56 GMT -5
I am quite convinced that Riley was well aware, right from the start, that Cameron was a terminator - after all, Jesse needs to tell her something about what she is supposed to do, and why. And Riley has been around Cameron enough to notice she is really creepy for a supposed sister, following John everywhere and confronting Riley about getting John "lost" (the mousetrap). Moreover, I think Riley knew very well what she was doing when she faced Cromartie in the Baum house. That was really bad-ass, if indeed she knew what he was - she owned him. Her panic in Mexico later is actually completely normal - people were equalling being from the future with being a supersoldier who never feels fear, but as we saw, Riley was even more scared, and with less reason, in the future then in Mexico. Not to mention, running away from a Terminator who is killing left and right seems a smart action, in the future or in the present, and she didn't lose her head. As for the HK, I've been told on another forum that the UFO we saw, is actually pretty much taken from actual, real-life UFO conventions; there are apparently even vids from it that can be found on the internet (turns out, they're CGI though it was initially billed as "real observations recorded by camera", beofre the CGI part was admitted). The TSCC design has been modified a bit, but it is pretty close. See www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bq9fC14ew&feature=relatedI don't see much likeness to the HK design used in T1, T2 and in a couple of TSCC episodes: the sKynet craft doesn't have all those weird tails at different places (except for the functional tail with the third engine, and it has a clearly defined main hull: images1.wikia.nocookie.net/terminator/images/8/85/SCC_DVD_Special_HK-VTOL_concept.JPGThe "Earthlings" UFO looks very different, with no real main hull visible other than a relatively small circular shape in the middle. I think it is more likely to be a Sarah hallucination (or at least a deformation of something that really was in the air, based on what she saw at the UFO convention).
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
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Post by terrasj on Dec 18, 2008 19:50:11 GMT -5
As for the HK, I've been told on another forum that the UFO we saw, is actually pretty much taken from actual, real-life UFO conventions; there are apparently even vids from it that can be found on the internet (turns out, they're CGI though it was initially billed as "real observations recorded by camera", beofre the CGI part was admitted). The TSCC design has been modified a bit, but it is pretty close. See www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bq9fC14ew&feature=relatedI don't see much likeness to the HK design used in T1, T2 and in a couple of TSCC episodes: the sKynet craft doesn't have all those weird tails at different places (except for the functional tail with the third engine, and it has a clearly defined main hull: images1.wikia.nocookie.net/terminator/images/8/85/SCC_DVD_Special_HK-VTOL_concept.JPGThe "Earthlings" UFO looks very different, with no real main hull visible other than a relatively small circular shape in the middle. I think it is more likely to be a Sarah hallucination (or at least a deformation of something that really was in the air, based on what she saw at the UFO convention). Nice argument, if we only go by the T:SCC HK-VTOL as seen in Dungeons & Dragons. That design is an update of the original design, more 'shark' like, and also lacks a 3rd tail engine... It's TSCC's graphics department making their own mark in the Terminator franchise. Now, lets look carefully at the original: HK-Aerial12345Be it T1, T2, T3 - the Aerial HK's all had 3 engines in a " T " or Holy Cross shape design. 2 wings and tail. Remember, the VTOL Sarah saw - may be a Pre-HK design due to the limitations or actually even of present day technology and production facilities. Or rather a new "Prototype" HK design, again, designed with present day breakthroughs of alternative propulsion methods - the drawback is less thrust/lift/mass ratio. It has a light and thin frame, not needing the 747 sized aircraft engines that the larger movie HK's need for the size/mass/lift ratio. The movie HK's probably capitalized on as sheer common availability of spare 747 parts. Perhaps those aerial antenna like veins on the wings are sensors and flight control mechanisms to stabilize it's flight and hovering ability. Might also be a primitive AI controlling it, so its more like a kid on a bike with training wheels. I doubt that it even has any onboard weaponry, or at best hard-cased ammunition rather than plasma (which would require reactor furnaces, adding largely to the bulk of the unit) There had to be earlier versions of the Aerial HK's before the final ones we see in the movies, and the T:SCC is again making their little mark within the T franchise. The updated HK-VTOL from D&D could be result of cutting resources on design. And the tell-tale giveaway is the continuing design heritage: Sleeker, slimmer, light weight, more airo-dynamic, the tail wing design with the bent-back wing fins. But hey, this is only my opinion about it. Feel free to agree or disagree :edit: couple small grammar corrections and re-phrasing for clarity.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Dec 18, 2008 20:46:03 GMT -5
I think there are 4 different groups of humans in the future: 1- The ones who are with John Connor and against the machines: The resistance fighters (I include Derek in this group). 2- The ones who are with the machines and against John Connor: The greys (Charles Fischer). 3- The ones who are against the machines and consider that John Connor is making questionable decisions which must be rectified: They started as a sub-group inside the Resistance. Let's call them 'Radicals' by now (I place Jesse in this group). 4- The civilians: Authentic 'pariahs' who are potential greys or resistance fighter's pets (I include Riley in this group). _______________________Now, regarding to my hypothesis about Kyle, which I promised I would explain better today, I decided that I'll post it on "The Good Wound Discussion Thread" because I think it fits better there, don't you think? So, I invite you to join the discussion and share your thoughts!! (if you haven't done it yet ) Greetings!
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Dec 19, 2008 1:02:04 GMT -5
Is someone financing Jesse's mission in the present? And who would it be? As soon as Jesse and Riley jumped back, it didn't take them long to acquire brand new clothes (price tags intact), and rent a room at a pretty lavish hotel. You can't rent a room at any upscale hotel without a credit card. And, they double check the card with a driver's license to make sure it's not stolen. Someone must have had fake paper, and cards to supplier her with. Fake paper could be made in an hour or two, depending on how well sophisticated, and financed her backers are. Not to mention that Jesse dropped off Riley at school in a brand new car. Plus, she found no trouble buying guns, cell phones, and a expensive camera. Someone must have set her up with a little bit of cash, and probably some diamonds. Diamonds never depreciate in value, and Jesse had a shady fence who would buy stolen ones. I'll answer this post in the -= Jesse shipper thread =- because we're talking about the character in general, and can discuss it and other Jesse aspects further in that thread.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 19, 2008 8:25:28 GMT -5
I think it's very clear that Riley knew Cameron was a Terminator all along. She got nervous when she was confronted by this *thing* she KNEW was not John's "sister" and which clearly was suspicious of her. Remember, Riley is not a Resistance fighter - she's a civilian. And they obviously fear Terminators even more than Resistance fighters do. It's probably been a tremendous strain for Riley to even be around Cameron.
I don't think Riley knew Cromartie was a Terminator when he barged in that time. But she might have guessed. If she did know, then there's an inconsistency in her reaction then and her reaction to Cameron. She was a "bad-ass ninja" in dealing with Cromartie and completely freaked out by Cameron? Doubtful. So I don't think she even knew Cromartie was a Terminator until John told her he was a "very bad guy".
I think Jesse is exactly what she claims to be and was described as - a "rogue" Resistance member who wants to change the way Connor operates - or possibly even remove Connor as leader of the Resistance. Since she's from Australia, and not directly under Connor's command, she and presumably her fellow members of her faction have less awe of him than those around him.
In a way, this is similar to the Hitler assassination plot in the new Tom Cruise movie, "Valkyrie". At some point, soldiers start questioning their leaders when the war goes badly. Then they start assassinating their leaders. In Vietnam, I knew of cases where officers and NCOs were "fragged" by their own troops who didn't respect them.
I think Jesse is somewhat like that. She claims to be trying to "save" John from Cameron - but she might have said that just to enlist Derek's support in getting rid of Cameron, John's primary protector (besides Sarah). Her real intentions might be to remove John Connor as the leader of the Resistance entirely. But to do that she has to get rid of Cameron, Derek and Sarah.
But as I indicated elsewhere, I suspect that Jesse intends something more than merely inserting Riley into John's life. That won't be enough to get rid of Cameron. Cameron must be physically destroyed. The only way to get John to do that is to frame Cameron for doing something really bad - like killing Riley, Derek or even Sarah.
Kill Sarah, frame Cameron, John destroys Cameron - that leaves John under the influence of Derek, a Terminator hater - and Jesse, who has Derek under her thumb. Then she can convince Derek that maybe HE ought to be the leader of the Resistance. If he doesn't buy it, well, she can kill him, too.
Now as others have said, the problem with this theory is that Jesse could have killed John before this. OTOH, Cameron has usually been around - even when John was running away from her and ended up at the Santa Monica pier. Of course, there was the "lover's lane" opportunity.
So maybe Jesse doesn't actually want to kill John. That WOULD be risky if he really is the myth everybody claims he is. So I think she just wants to CONTROL him. Which mean Sarah AND Cameron have to go.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Dec 19, 2008 12:27:10 GMT -5
As for the HK, I've been told on another forum that the UFO we saw, is actually pretty much taken from actual, real-life UFO conventions; there are apparently even vids from it that can be found on the internet (turns out, they're CGI though it was initially billed as "real observations recorded by camera", beofre the CGI part was admitted). The TSCC design has been modified a bit, but it is pretty close. See www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bq9fC14ew&feature=relatedI don't see much likeness to the HK design used in T1, T2 and in a couple of TSCC episodes: the sKynet craft doesn't have all those weird tails at different places (except for the functional tail with the third engine, and it has a clearly defined main hull: images1.wikia.nocookie.net/terminator/images/8/85/SCC_DVD_Special_HK-VTOL_concept.JPGThe "Earthlings" UFO looks very different, with no real main hull visible other than a relatively small circular shape in the middle. I think it is more likely to be a Sarah hallucination (or at least a deformation of something that really was in the air, based on what she saw at the UFO convention). Nice argument, if we only go by the T:SCC HK-VTOL as seen in Dungeons & Dragons. That design is an update of the original design, more 'shark' like, and also lacks a 3rd tail engine... It's TSCC's graphics department making their own mark in the Terminator franchise. Now, lets look carefully at the original: HK-Aerial12345Be it T1, T2, T3 - the Aerial HK's all had 3 engines in a " T " or Holy Cross shape design. 2 wings and tail. Remember, the VTOL Sarah saw - may be a Pre-HK design due to the limitations or actually even of present day technology and production facilities. Or rather a new "Prototype" HK design, again, designed with present day breakthroughs of alternative propulsion methods - the drawback is less thrust/lift/mass ratio. It has a light and thin frame, not needing the 747 sized aircraft engines that the larger movie HK's need for the size/mass/lift ratio. The movie HK's probably capitalized on as sheer common availability of spare 747 parts. Perhaps those aerial antenna like veins on the wings are sensors and flight control mechanisms to stabilize it's flight and hovering ability. Might also be a primitive AI controlling it, so its more like a kid on a bike with training wheels. I doubt that it even has any onboard weaponry, or at best hard-cased ammunition rather than plasma (which would require reactor furnaces, adding largely to the bulk of the unit) There had to be earlier versions of the Aerial HK's before the final ones we see in the movies, and the T:SCC is again making their little mark within the T franchise. The updated HK-VTOL from D&D could be result of cutting resources on design. And the tell-tale giveaway is the continuing design heritage: Sleeker, slimmer, light weight, more airo-dynamic, the tail wing design with the bent-back wing fins. But hey, this is only my opinion about it. Feel free to agree or disagree :edit: couple small grammar corrections and re-phrasing for clarity. Actually. The Aerial H/K's in T1 and T2 only have TWO thrusters. One on each side. Yet for some reason they're agile and able to turn on a dime and go up and down. In T3 they DO have a tail thruster. In Salvation they might.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Dec 19, 2008 18:29:46 GMT -5
Nice argument, if we only go by the T:SCC HK-VTOL as seen in Dungeons & Dragons. That design is an update of the original design, more 'shark' like, and also lacks a 3rd tail engine... It's TSCC's graphics department making their own mark in the Terminator franchise. Now, lets look carefully at the original: Carefully looking at the original, which looks a bit different from the (very nice) TSCC version, I still don't see any likeness between this and the "Earthlings" UFO, other than that both are flying engines that have engines that can direct their thrust downwards. But then, the Harrier also fits that description. I don't think Riley knew Cromartie was a Terminator when he barged in that time. But she might have guessed. If she did know, then there's an inconsistency in her reaction then and her reaction to Cameron. She was a "bad-ass ninja" in dealing with Cromartie and completely freaked out by Cameron? But she wasn't really completely freaked out by Cameron, was she? When they first met, Cameron immediately came very close to size her up, and Riley didn't give any indication she was intimated by that - though she must have been. In "The mousetrap", she is actively working against what Cameron wants: "look, there is your weird sister, let's leave" - accidentally nearly getting John killed in the proces. Even in "Earthlings", she may be sweating a bit - who wouldn't be when a potentially very hostile Terminator (who might go violent any second) is showing first irritation and then clear suspicion (and with reason, as Riley knows) - but she doesn't lose her outward cool, keeps conversing with Cameron as if nothing out of the ordinary is happening - just having a chat about tattoos. I guess if Cromartie had touched her when he visited the house, his measurements would have revealed nervousness as well. That Cameron was getting suspicious was only one factor in the suicide attempt; Riley had no one to talk to, had lost her foster parents and Jesse as people who cared for her, couldn't tell anything to John or really reach him, and she knew the world would end in a few years.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 19, 2008 20:02:24 GMT -5
I agree that Riley didn't commit suicide because of Cameron. It's clear the other events - her being kicked out, slapped around by the woman she considers her protector, etc. - contributed heavily.
And because of that, the situation was different for her in being confronted by Cameron vs Cromartie. So it's perhaps not that big an inconsistency in terms of her reactions. That's why I actually think Riley didn't know Cromartie was a Terminator. It would explain her different reactions completely.
What I mean by Riley freaking over Cameron's suspicion is that it made it clear to her that she was failing in her mission and she had no way out given Jesse's attitude. She was caught between a rock and a hard place - between Cameron and Jesse, and her inability to tell John what was going on. She may yet confess to John - that would be the most logical thing for her to do and the most likely emotional reaction she would have to that situation. John can protect her from Jesse, although she will likely lose John's affections.
On the other hand, the writers can keep us all guessing how things will go if Riley simply dies. As I indicated, that would leave John partially blaming Cameron for Riley's death, even if there is insufficient reason to do so, and confused over why Riley died at all. And it would leave Jesse free to continue her campaign which would be bad news for everybody and allow the writers to stretch that subplot out until the end of the season.
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Post by driftlight23 on Dec 20, 2008 13:21:05 GMT -5
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Post by thecolours on Dec 20, 2008 15:05:20 GMT -5
I don't think the California Drones are a failed marketing campaign by Fox. Rather, the writers capitalized on a real-life unexplained UFO phenomena, and weaved it seamlessly into the mystery behind the 3 dots.
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