rossbondreturns
Corporal
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 12, 2008 0:18:10 GMT -5
Yes but once again. Once a Terminator passes over a place it doesn't come back... that was the whole point of The School bit with Morris playing the part of John for Cromartie...and he never came back to Johns school.
So Cromartie after checking the Connor house and seeing another family on the fridge, and Riley saying she took the pictures.
Cromartie had filed this location away as...NOT the Connor house.
John knew about Morris and that Cromartie wouldn't come back so there was in his mind no reason to tell anyone.
It was ONLY because of Sarah's not killing the last thief that Cromartie put the Connor house back on the map.
Does it make whatjohn did right...nope. But nor should it make him vilified.
And nor should it take the blame off Sarah.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 12, 2008 0:53:47 GMT -5
Because you know Sarah has to have been wondering what her adult son was thinking sending a robot that looks like Cameron back to live with them.  He didn't. You guys still don't get that. There's NO WAY future John would have sent back a totally independent Terminator who does not obey orders from either his past self or his mother - especially a reprogrammed Terminator who could go ape for no known reason at any moment. Get it - he did NOT send Cameron back. She came back on her own. What she told them in the pilot was a complete LIE. And that puts the whole "seduction" bits in a totally different light. No, she was NOT just "learning to communicate with him". She is seducing him for her own purpose. Trust me. |
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Post by vicheron on Nov 12, 2008 1:06:11 GMT -5
Future John sent his own father on a suicide mission to impregnate his own mother. It's pretty obvious that future John is very manipulative and has lots of ulterior motives. Sending a hot teenage Terminator to mess with his past self is not beyond him.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Nov 12, 2008 3:08:41 GMT -5
@shotgun ammo: DU wasn't my first thought but personally I don't see why armor piercing ammo shot in the same spot multiple times in a row wouldn't do the job. @cameron: I think she knew exactly what she was trying to do. I think she always knew ever since season one the effect her femininity can have, hence she already tried to exploit John's emotions before. Of course being what she is it lacked subtlety. Even though, shoot me, but I though the sexual tension was oozing from him by the end even as John was a little freaked out. @ellison: Consider this. He didn't exactly come out with, "Hey there is this company exec. She knows and is very interested in the machines." The consequences of bringing him in could be disastrous as well as beneficial. Sarah's mistrust and paranoia has saved her before as well as being one of her most distinctive characteristics (flaws if you must). As for Connors desperately needing allies, they should get their own act together first. We are at a stage where they just aren't in it the way they should be. But that's the way of stories, things get worse before they get better. Besides they did destroy Cyberdine by themselves the last time around. It doesn't matter how Cromartie got to the house, it matters once he did John never told Sarah Cromartie had found them. IMO it was stupid that he never told his mother about the visit. But you are still wrong about the causality here. Cromartie checked the house and left, the reason he came back was because of the kid in the bowling alley. His first visit doesn't figure into it at all, if it didn't happen at all he'd still find the house in this episode. He didn't. You guys still don't get that. There's NO WAY future John would have sent back a totally independent Terminator who does not obey orders from either his past self or his mother - especially a reprogrammed Terminator who could go ape for no known reason at any moment. Why is it certain fans are so sure of what John Connor is like? We have no idea what he is like, we've never seen him. Future John could be absolutely anything. |
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
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Post by terrasj on Nov 12, 2008 5:09:57 GMT -5
@cameron: I think she knew exactly what she was trying to do. I think she always knew ever since season one the effect her femininity can have, hence she already tried to exploit John's emotions before. Of course being what she is it lacked subtlety. Even though, shoot me, but I though the sexual tension was oozing from him by the end even as John was a little freaked out. Whoever's gonna shoot you might as well have a pair of bullets loaded here, one for each of us... You won't need to worry, I'll be standing right behind you the whole way ;D  (j/k, couldn't resist a little humor here) Good observation there. When Cameron said they talk alot - implying in the future, he swallows then asks "We do?" Cameron corrects herself to future tense, John stammers claiming he's got to get some sleep... A little nervousness there hmm?? John stammering his speech towards Cameron, like kinda how some boys or guys fumble their first line when talking to a hot girl they like but are nervous about? Yet John doesn't usually have that problem with girls. After all, I think this was starting to uncover some new territory for John, from what Cameron was telling him. The way she approached, layed beside him, told him he's lonely. Teenage libido only needed to assume the rest. And for the shoot-me part, I still don't think this is the first time Cameron came over to John like this (in the future), there wasn't any of her normal quirkiness from improvising on the fly social interaction which usually is her weak spot. Rather than feeling it weakened or detracted from the scene, it actually makes me more curious to find out more about the future thats being kept a mystery. Its like how a playful tease is worth more effective to the imagination than seeing the full monty. :edit: someone had better make that 3 bullets, for a shoot me twice - What if this was a ruse or a lure by Cameron? Tell John a little bit, let him get nervous, then when John has some free time to think about it, it'll make him curious, and come to Cameron, wanting to know more? Theres still the 'I love you and you love me' that John hasn't questioned Cameron about. Those could very well still be unrelated subjects, but were I John, that would start bugging me to find out... Maybe he recalled that phrase in his mind the instant Cameron said he's lonely (in the future), and they talk alot about it... By the same token, I think the writers are really teasing us here... |
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timstuff
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Scary robot? Naw...
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Post by timstuff on Nov 12, 2008 5:39:06 GMT -5
Was I the only one why cried a little on the inside when Cameron said "I'm a machine, I can't be happy?" When I heard her say this, I did not really take it to mean that she is incapable of feeling the emotion, but that she thinks it's her fate as a machine to be unhappy.  She's definitely capable of being hurt, as we've seen many times before. The way she gritted her teeth when she saw John and Riley together in at the start of 208 was clearly a sign of jealousy, and her appearance in his bedroom afterward was likely a reaction to what she sees as being pushed out of John's life. Cameron practically offered herself to John on velvet pillow, but the logical part of her says that at best, John can use her as a physical companion, and that she'll never truly be able to have him.  |
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Post by chrisimo on Nov 12, 2008 6:00:17 GMT -5
Was I the only one why cried a little on the inside when Cameron said "I'm a machine, I can't be happy?" When I heard her say this, I did not really take it to mean that she is incapable of feeling the emotion, but that she thinks it's her fate as a machine to be unhappy. She's definitely capable of being hurt, as we've seen many times before. The way she gritted her teeth when she saw John and Riley together in at the start of 208 was clearly a sign of jealousy, and her appearance in his bedroom afterward was likely a reaction to what she sees as being pushed out of John's life. Cameron practically offered herself to John on velvet pillow, but the logical part of her says that at best, John can use her as a physical companion, and that she'll never truly be able to have him. Whether she can feel something like emotions or not, she certainly meant it in the sense that she can't be happy or unhappy because she is a machine and machines do not have feelings. |
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Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 12, 2008 8:55:46 GMT -5
awesome find Ok, I got the PVR from a friend of mine (sorry, I don't have a VCR, PVR, or DVR), and I've replayed the scene over again and typed it out line by line... If we're going to debate it further, we might as well get the exact conversation correct: Cameron: "I understand that its a bad idea. And I understand that being John Connor can be lonely" then right there she should have stopped him since her job is to protect him. right? Because you know Sarah has to have been wondering what her adult son was thinking sending a robot that looks like Cameron back to live with them. He didn't. You guys still don't get that. There's NO WAY future John would have sent back a totally independent Terminator who does not obey orders from either his past self or his mother - especially a reprogrammed Terminator who could go ape for no known reason at any moment. Get it - he did NOT send Cameron back. She came back on her own. What she told them in the pilot was a complete LIE. And that puts the whole "seduction" bits in a totally different light. No, she was NOT just "learning to communicate with him". She is seducing him for her own purpose. Trust me. interesting theory. i like it and it and can roll with it but also she has been acting like that since the chip screw up |
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Post by aceplace57 on Nov 12, 2008 12:40:07 GMT -5
Cameron's seduction attempt was silly and pretty sad. John already had his bag packed and was ready to meet Riley. The whole time Cameron was lying there he's thinking, "Won't she ever leave? I got to sneak out and meet Riley!". Honestly, I think John would poke it in a running garbage disposal before he'd touch Cameron. She's a cold blooded murderer. She shot 3 teens for nothing more than breaking into the Connor house. It's kind of funny that all the bad stuff in Mr Ferguson is Ill Today could have been avoided if John and Riley had stayed in the room doing what honeymooners do. Later, take a break & call for room service. TSCC has an odd puritanical streak. Riley jumps in the hot tub fully clothed? You'd think she'd at least wear a swimsuit. I rewatched the episode and it occurred to me that Sarah, Derek, Cameron etc. all gathered in John and Riley's room. That really struck me as kind of sad. Even John's love nest is invaded by his family and the curse of skynet. That kid just doesn't get any breaks in life. |
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 12, 2008 13:11:02 GMT -5
Was I the only one why cried a little on the inside when Cameron said "I'm a machine, I can't be happy?" When I heard her say this, I did not really take it to mean that she is incapable of feeling the emotion, but that she thinks it's her fate as a machine to be unhappy. She's definitely capable of being hurt, as we've seen many times before. The way she gritted her teeth when she saw John and Riley together in at the start of 208 was clearly a sign of jealousy, and her appearance in his bedroom afterward was likely a reaction to what she sees as being pushed out of John's life. Cameron practically offered herself to John on velvet pillow, but the logical part of her says that at best, John can use her as a physical companion, and that she'll never truly be able to have him. Actually, it sounded more like she was CONFIRMING that she can't be happy. Cameron's a machine, she understands her purpose. For the last time, they can't feel emotion. |
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Post by allergygal on Nov 12, 2008 13:15:34 GMT -5
So John should rely on luck and Sarah should execute people?  It may have been luck...it may have been destiny but it works. And yes...Sarah needs to held accountable. Sounds from next weeks preview that some serious accountability issues are being explored. Dude, for real? Because John got lucky once, you want him to throw caution and logic out the window and follow his teenage impulses because he feels lucky? And just so we're clear on Sarah, you think she should have killed Riley since she's seen the Connors in action and she knows John's real name and where they live. If Riley goes to the cops when she gets back, should Sarah be held accountable for not killing her when she had the chance? Depleted Uranium is a controlled substance and as such the Connors wouldn't have access to it, yes I know it's Hollywood but a bit of reality now and again isn't that bad is it? There are civilian applications for it namely in radiography equipment but it's supply is closely monitored by Government bodies. Trying to get your hands on DU on the sly is a virtual guarantee that various Government agencies will be kicking in your front door. Secondly DU isn't used in small arms ammunition, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Tungsten Carbide is the common material used for armor piecing rounds for small arms. Cameron could have picked up some depleted uranium at Serrano Point when they were there and made the ammo. |
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 12, 2008 13:34:31 GMT -5
What's so wrong with wanting Sarah to kill that girl from the bowling alley? No one has said anything about wanting to be an executioner, that's just blowing what we're saying out of proportion. Also, saying Riley should be killed by Sarah as well is just ludacrous and shows that you're grasping for straws. That's apples and oranges. The minute Riley told John she didn't want to run from him, it gave off the "I don't care that your life is like this, I want to be with you" vibe. And if you couldn't pick up on that, then the simplest of things must fly over your head.
JMHO.
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timstuff
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Post by timstuff on Nov 12, 2008 14:39:51 GMT -5
What's so wrong with wanting Sarah to kill that girl from the bowling alley? Granted that the boy in the bowling alley had really big deer-in-headlights eyes, long hair, and no semblance of facial hair whatsoever, I suppose it'd be understandable to misidentify him as a girl, but even so...  |
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Nov 12, 2008 14:59:05 GMT -5
What's so wrong with wanting Sarah to kill that girl from the bowling alley? Because she's not a murderer. She said so herself. It's like she prides herself on that. Yes, sometimes not killing someone bites them in the ass later. But then again, sometimes killing someone bites them in the ass too. Derek has no issues killing people, Jesse has no problems killing people. Sarah has issues killing people. She's not a murderer, she's not a killer. That's not who she is, so why do you want her to be something she's not? |
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 12, 2008 15:01:37 GMT -5
Sarah simply need to realize that they aren't trying to stop a war...they're in a war right now.
And those who hold information that might lead the enemy to you need to be silenced.
I don't want her to go on a slaughter spree but at least use some modicum of common sense.
She's not his mother...and he's her enemy regardless of whether he's peeing his pants or giving her I'm sorry puppy dog eyes.
Right now as inconsistent as John is at least he's beginning to get it.
If Sarah keepa on denying that killing is needed on day it's really going to have far worse consequences.
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(j/k, couldn't resist a little humor here)
