tom
Private
I'll be back....as soon as I figure out how I can leave.
Posts: 128
|
Post by tom on Nov 11, 2008 19:33:43 GMT -5
Oh please let's just nip this one in the bud. Depleted Uranium is a controlled substance and as such the Connors wouldn't have access to it, yes I know it's Hollywood but a bit of reality now and again isn't that bad is it? There are civilian applications for it namely in radiography equipment but it's supply is closely monitored by Government bodies. Trying to get your hands on DU on the sly is a virtual guarantee that various Government agencies will be kicking in your front door. Secondly DU isn't used in small arms ammunition, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Tungsten Carbide is the common material used for armor piecing rounds for small arms. I agree. They would not be able to get their hands on DU rounds. Cameron was at close range, she unloaded multiple slug shells and being a terminator her aim is excellent. Cromartie's eye looked gone to me. Those slugs hitting all within the same area at that close range would do serious damage. Yes, Cromartie's eye looked gone to me too. Besides, I don't think Cameron were firing bird shots at him. Using buckshots would cause way more damage. It's also a good nickname. Cameron "Buckshot" Phillips  |
|
airofina
Refugee
Fall 2008 Video Challenge Winner!
Tech-Com Resistance Fighter.
Posts: 27
|
Post by airofina on Nov 11, 2008 19:38:55 GMT -5
I really like that idea of Cameron acting different toward John in private then she does in the presence of others. It would make perfect sense, especially if she was very close to him in the future.
On the other hand, what if Cameron is picking up this new behavior from watching Riley and John together?
I mean, she knows Riley comes over to see John- She was the one who told Sarah about Riley "climbing out John's window" after they got robbed. What's to say she hasn't seen John and Riley lay in bed together? She was watching them hold hands at the beginning of this episode. She could think that since Riley has become close to John if she acts the same, John may take to her as well. Which could explain why she thought John was in his room.. She could have thought she had gotten through to him because she acted the way she did.
|
|
traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
|
Post by traitorsgate on Nov 11, 2008 19:41:03 GMT -5
Could civilians get access to that sniper rifle and its armor-piercing ammo from a few eps back though? Or infiltrate a military academy like it's nothing? I'm willing to suspend disbelief on this one. As for the material itself, is it not used in small arms because it has properties that aren't very good for that application or simply because it's too valuable to be wasted on small arms (main use is for heavy anti-tank shells, IIRC)? AFAIK it's a very heavy, dense metal, so it should be an effective armour-piercing round for any size it gets made in. In any case, clearly the shotgun was meant to be loaded with something more than your standard-issue ammo; the effect on Cromartie would have been close to nil otherwise. Tungsten rounds would be fine for the desired effect, I suppose... Actually in many states in America civvies can legally acquire military assault rifles including a weapon like a Barrett or AW-50. Having said that California is I believe (if I'm not mistaken) one of the few States that has a ban on civilian ownership of military assault rifles, for what it's worth. As for the shotty that Cameron used, nothing exotic there, a rifled slug, the type commonly used by assault teams as a breaching tool would do the trick. For that matter so would plain old #4 buckshot. At close range anything out to about 15m a shotty packs a huge wallop. On the other hand, what if Cameron is picking up this new behavior from watching Riley and John together? I mean, she knows Riley comes over to see John- She was the one who told Sarah about Riley "climbing out John's window" after they got robbed. What's to say she hasn't seen John and Riley lay in bed together? She was watching them hold hands at the beginning of this episode. She could think that since Riley has become close to John if she acts the same, John may take to her as well. Which could explain why she thought John was in his room.. She could have thought she had gotten through to him because she acted the way she did. That actually makes far more sense and is potentially a much better course to pursue by the writers than the tired old line that always gets dragged up that Cameron was close to the future John Connor and was sent back in time by him to be his protector. |
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Nov 11, 2008 20:14:38 GMT -5
On the other hand, what if Cameron is picking up this new behavior from watching Riley and John together? I hope so. I agree with traitorsgate that this makes more sense and is a little more interesting take. Cameron's quick study is one of her primary assets. Frankly, I was freaked out by Cam in that scene because of all the heaviness of her seduction. While John is obviously very strongly attracted to her physically -and has ambigious semiromantic feelings for her- he too seemed freaked out by her behavior rather than pleasantly surprised. And that, to me, is because his feelings for Cameron are not based on the claustrophobic promise that Cameron is the only 'female' he will get close to in the future. I think he likes the quirky side of her: her curiosity, her strange innocence, and then ofc her protection of him. I think more caring and less seduction would've done the trick. |
|
|
|
Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 11, 2008 20:40:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by gothamite66 on Nov 11, 2008 20:55:57 GMT -5
Could civilians get access to that sniper rifle and its armor-piercing ammo from a few eps back though? Or infiltrate a military academy like it's nothing? I'm willing to suspend disbelief on this one. Actually in many states in America civvies can legally acquire military assault rifles including a weapon like a Barrett or AW-50. Having said that California is I believe (if I'm not mistaken) one of the few States that has a ban on civilian ownership of military assault rifles, for what it's worth. I doubt that the Connor's have obtained any of their weapons in a legal manner.  |
|
|
|
Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 11, 2008 20:59:42 GMT -5
so im watching the episode again on fox cause it was so good. but i just thought of something. Cameron can tell when people are lieing correct? so why couldnt she tell that john was really going to see Riley
i noticed something else. i think john might be thinking with the wrong head. he brought riley to mexico. he ran away with her and last time he gave her the alarm code. i think i might be warming up to riley. sure she is a risk but john is the one putting her in danger.
she is a troubled kid sort of like john. i mean look how she first met him.
i think she held her own last week delaying Cromartie and this week she did good when in jail to distract the guard so john could take him out
|
|
|
|
Post by gothamite66 on Nov 11, 2008 21:08:16 GMT -5
so im watching the episode again on fox cause it was so good. but i just thought of something. Cameron can tell when people are lieing correct? so why couldnt she tell that john was really going to see Riley Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall in Season one Cameron had to touch John's skin to get his vitals before she could tell if he was lying. I don't remember her touching John in that manner last night. |
|
traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
|
Post by traitorsgate on Nov 11, 2008 21:09:29 GMT -5
On the other hand, what if Cameron is picking up this new behavior from watching Riley and John together? I hope so. I agree with traitorsgate that this makes more sense and is a little more interesting take. Cameron's quick study is one of her primary assets. Frankly, I was freaked out by Cam in that scene because of all the heaviness of her seduction. While John is obviously very strongly attracted to her physically -and has ambigious semiromantic feelings for her- he too seemed freaked out by her behavior rather than pleasantly surprised. And that, to me, is because his feelings for Cameron are not based on the claustrophobic promise that Cameron is the only 'female' he will get close to in the future. I think he likes the quirky side of her: her curiosity, her strange innocence, and then ofc her protection of him. I think more caring and less seduction would've done the trick. Even as a heterosexual male I found the entire scene something of a distraction. Which again reinforces to me that it wasn't meant to be some attempt by Cameron to seduce John or even in some way to simply offer herself to him but rather from observing John & Riley, Cameron is simply trying another approach in order to communicate with John. The rather over the top wanting to be physically close to him was merely representative of Cameron's lack of understanding/experience about how Humans communicate and interact both verbally and non-verbally. Cameron's need to be able to speak with John is born out of her programming to protect him. In the first season his actions were rather predictable which makes the job of a Bodyguard somewhat more simple. However in season 2 John's actions have been more unpredictable making Cameron's job a lot harder. As a Bodyguard she's merely trying to understand what her Principle is thinking, if she can do that she can do better job of protecting him. Might not be very romantic, but once you accept that Cameron is first and foremost the Connor's Guard Dog it makes perfect sense. |
|
|
|
Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 11, 2008 21:23:09 GMT -5
so im watching the episode again on fox cause it was so good. but i just thought of something. Cameron can tell when people are lieing correct? so why couldnt she tell that john was really going to see Riley Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall in Season one Cameron had to touch John's skin to get his vitals before she could tell if he was lying. I don't remember her touching John in that manner last night. yea i think you may be right. but she could also assess that riley is a threat and security risk with out touching her. and she could tell that Jordan and Moicheas(sp) friend were not dead with out touching them. or maybe i am confusing different emotions and feelings. LOL i noticed something else. i think john might be thinking with the wrong head. he brought riley to mexico. he ran away with her and last time he gave her the alarm code. i think i might be warming up to riley. sure she is a risk but john is the one putting her in danger. she is a troubled kid sort of like john. i mean look how she first met him. i think she held her own last week delaying Cromartie and this week she did good when in jail to distract the guard so john could take him out |
|
|
|
Post by vicheron on Nov 11, 2008 22:26:34 GMT -5
Unlike Uncle Bob, Cameron doesn't have to follow John's orders. Uncle Bob pretty much had to follow John around and protect him regardless of what kind of stupid decisions he makes. Cameron has much more freedom in dealing with John. Uncle Bob couldn't force John to not do stupid things but Cameron does not have that limitation. In fact, Cameron did stop John by force to prevent him from doing anything about the suicidal girl. However, Cameron also realize that if she continues to try to stop John by force, John will not become any less defiant and may actually become even more erratic. As a result, it is only reasonable that Cameron try to convince John through other methods.
Also, maybe Cameron used those fancy FRAG-12 rounds to give Cromartie that face lift. I'm not even sure if they make DU ammo for shotguns.
|
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Nov 11, 2008 22:50:39 GMT -5
it wasn't meant to be some attempt by Cameron to seduce John or even in some way to simply offer herself to him but rather from observing John & Riley, Cameron is simply trying another approach in order to communicate with John. The rather over the top wanting to be physically close to him was merely representative of Cameron's lack of understanding/experience about how Humans communicate and interact both verbally and non-verbally. Thanks, traitorsgate. I really hope you're right; it makes me feel so much better! I really like Cameron as a character and 'personality' but the occasional insertion of "scary robot=sex object" scenes always leave a bad taste in my mouth and make me reassess her role on the show. Again, I do really love her as a character, so I'm open to her arc being one of transformation into humanity mayyyyyybe even to the point of eventual romance.... but I prefer her as a trustworthy protector and unique companion. Wow, great analysis right there! ITA --except with the "guard dog" part because I'm not a pet owner so haven't been able to anthromorphize an animal to the point that Cameron is on the show.  There's more to Cameron than meets the eye but IMO this episode didn't do much to make her any clearer. I think the episode's strength was the Sarah/Cromartie, John-out-on-a-limb and Ellison/Connor teamup. (I also enjoyed the format of the episode. I think it added tension, succeeding in keeping each character very distinct and split even in what amounted to a teamup episode). The ultimate best part of the ep for me was the John/Mom hug! FINALLY and it was very worth the wait. Not only was it long and heartfelt and dramatic but it was also a reversal of S1. Back then, Sarah was the one who'd grab John into a comforting hug. This time John is the 'adult' --he's the one giving the comfort. A very nice development, IMO. So, as ever, I applaud S2 for substantially progressing John's growth.  |
|
|
|
Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 11, 2008 23:36:28 GMT -5
I think the episode's strength was the Sarah/Cromartie, John-out-on-a-limb and Ellison/Connor teamup. (I also enjoyed the format of the episode. I think it added tension, succeeding in keeping each character very distinct and split even in what amounted to a teamup episode). you bring up a good point. if Ellison/Sarah do team up later, who is to say Ellison won't use Sarah to bring evidence to CW that another Terminator did/does exist. if i recall she is still looking for another one. i want to try to keep this on topic tho |
|
terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
|
Post by terrasj on Nov 11, 2008 23:49:48 GMT -5
Ok, I got the PVR from a friend of mine (sorry, I don't have a VCR, PVR, or DVR), and I've replayed the scene over again and typed it out line by line... If we're going to debate it further, we might as well get the exact conversation correct:
Cameron: "Are you busy?"
John: "No... Did you change?"
Cameron: "Its hot out"
John: "Since when do you feel heat?"
Cameron: "I feel heat"
John: "Are you hoping that Riley's gonna see us in bed together and be totally scarred for the rest of her life or something?"
Cameron: "No, I watched Riley leave 'til I couldn't see her anymore"
John: "And then you and mom high-fived"
Cameron: "You bring danger into Riley's life."
John: "I know that. I'm not stupid"
Cameron: "But sometimes you do stupid things. It would help me understand why"
John: "Humans humans do stupid things. So don't worry about it and be a happier machine"
Cameron: I'm a machine. I can't be happy. But I understand more than you think"
John: "So you understand that I'm going to keep see'ing Riley even if everyone thinks its a bad idea"
Cameron: "I understand that its a bad idea. And I understand that being John Connor can be lonely"
John: "Oh yeah? How do you understand that?"
Cameron: "You and I talk about it alot"
John: (swallows) "We do?"
Cameron: "We do. We will."
John: (stammers) "I need-I need to get some sleep"
Cameron: "And Riley?"
John: "I know. I know."
Next Morning:
Cameron: "He won't be seeing Riley anymore."
Sarah: "I don't like the way he responds to you"
Cameron: "You got what you wanted."
|
|
roseredscare
Private
Castiel, your local kickass angel
Posts: 120
|
Post by roseredscare on Nov 12, 2008 0:04:09 GMT -5
It doesn't matter how Cromartie got to the house, it matters once he did John never told Sarah Cromartie had found them.
|
|
