tze
Refugee
Posts: 19
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Post by tze on Nov 9, 2008 18:57:34 GMT -5
My guess is he's going to turn inwards at first surely, cause it's a natural (and first) human reaction. Then probably he'll be angry at the world for a while and will sleep with 9mm under his pillow. And if he realizes he can't do anything and has no one to open up, I would understand him if he chooses Cameron as a talk-to-buddy. Not of course as a friend, but more like a pet. Sounds funny; a killing machine as a pet- like sleeping with a chainsaw but it's the same reason why people share their most personal problems and secrets with their dogs. Cameron (just as pets) can't understand John's feelings and won't use them against him later. Also John wouldn't feel so inconvenient or exposed and Cam wouldn't think John is weak or a softie. And Cam doesn't have to understand or react to John, most of the time it's enough if she just listens- that's what Sigmund Freud did. So it totally makes sense to me to choose Cameron over humans as a "friend". I would go with the foster child idea. Kinda schematic but works well, especially if it would in fact mirror the T2 john. ;D I really like the idea that Riley is a foster child, because it clarifies a really difficult question: what girl in her right mind would not break up with a guy after she discovers he's been targeted by death squads from a post-apocalyptic future? John, for all his troubles, has a mother who'd die for him, a 'sister' who'd kill for him, and an uncle who's just itching to both kill and die for him. Barring their own deaths, none of them are going to abandon him. John might complain, but to a person who has NO family, joining up with this group might be a strangely attractive prospect. And on the whole 'nobody understands me' thing: what about poor Martin Bedell? Yes, no one really understands what John is going through, but Bedell--targeted by killer robots from the future, forced to give up his own dreams and become a military leader regardless of his own desires--is probably the closest he's going to find. Plus, they just sort of left Bedell on his own at Presidio Alto. The one thing Sarah and John Connor know for sure is that Skynet NEVER gives up---it makes sense to keep Bedell close so that they can protect him if and when Skynet tries again. Plus, John at least is surrounded by people who know the score; Martin literally has no one to whom he can vent. Poor guy is going to end up needing therapy almost as much as John. The world is going to end in a few years. Riley is going to either die in a nuclear holocaust, die in a Skynet purge, or end up in the tunnels. Anything she could learn from Derek and Sarah is going to be really, really useful. And while Bedell is going into the military in order to be well positioned to aid John when the time comes, it makes sense that he learn at the feet of Sarah and Derek while he still can. (Yes, John knows when and how Martin Bedell will die, and that sucks, but look at it this way: Jesus probably knew when and how John the Baptist would die, but I don't think it affected their relationship too much. )
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Nov 9, 2008 19:07:38 GMT -5
I wonder if they are telling Riley the whole tale or just going to spin some story about criminals hunting them.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Nov 9, 2008 19:43:46 GMT -5
I wonder if they are telling Riley the whole tale or just going to spin some story about criminals hunting them. Sofar, when John and Riley were in the truck driving away from the house in 2x07 - Brothers of Nablus, she was asking him who that guy was that she just faced. John was struggling how to tell her without opening up the whole pandoras box about Terminators from the future. He came up with the guy's a dangerous convict. So no, Riley has no idea yet. Unless they tell her after this episode (IF she survives.) So that is yet remains to be seen.
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traitorsgate
Sergeant
This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
Posts: 264
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 9, 2008 19:51:06 GMT -5
I wonder if they are telling Riley the whole tale or just going to spin some story about criminals hunting them. Realistically their better telling her sooner rather than later. At the moment the writers are fast venturing into territory that is just plain absurd with the Connors effectively fighting some pseudo guerrilla war in LA and yet the writers continue to expect viewers to believe that somehow all this is happening, one without the authorities getting wise to it, and two that the little intrepid band of soldiers aka Team Connor can do it all alone - yeah right. Believe all that and your the sort of person who probably believes in fairies at the bottom of the garden.
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tom
Private
I'll be back....as soon as I figure out how I can leave.
Posts: 128
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Post by tom on Nov 9, 2008 20:16:45 GMT -5
The Riley kind of girl! She is constantly seeking for trouble (fun) and presumably a meaning for her life. A boyfriend like our Johny boy would be a mental orgasm for Riley. Just imagine; she finally finds meaning in the world, finds a goal (to fight) and she finds all in one boy who can introduce her a whole new world with scary robots and stuff. It would freak her out first, but she would stop wasting time wandering in the city aimlessly from store to store and would want to actually do something to prevent the certain death. I wonder if they are telling Riley the whole tale or just going to spin some story about criminals hunting them. Sofar, when John and Riley were in the truck driving away from the house in 2x07 - Brothers of Nablus, she was asking him who that guy was that she just faced. John was struggling how to tell her without opening up the whole pandoras box about Terminators from the future. He came up with the guy's a dangerous convict. So no, Riley has no idea yet. Unless they tell her after this episode (IF she survives.) So that is yet remains to be seen. Haha, I don't think the "guy's a dangerous convict" story will work this time. Riley must notice that Cromartie is bulletproof and doesn't need a door to walk out the building.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 9, 2008 20:27:27 GMT -5
Maybe Riley will recognize Cromartie as George Laszlo, better known as Beast Wizard.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Nov 9, 2008 20:30:13 GMT -5
The Riley kind of girl! She is constantly seeking for trouble (fun) and presumably a meaning for her life. A boyfriend like our Johny boy would be a mental orgasm for Riley. Just imagine; she finally finds meaning in the world, finds a goal (to fight) and she finds all in one boy who can introduce her a whole new world with scary robots and stuff. It would freak her out first, but she would stop wasting time wandering in the city aimlessly from store to store and would want to actually do something to prevent the certain death. Good point there. She's certainly not the sheltered type that'd flip out panicky girlie-style and think John's family are freaks. Sofar, when John and Riley were in the truck driving away from the house in 2x07 - Brothers of Nablus, she was asking him who that guy was that she just faced. John was struggling how to tell her without opening up the whole pandoras box about Terminators from the future. He came up with the guy's a dangerous convict. So no, Riley has no idea yet. Unless they tell her after this episode (IF she survives.) So that is yet remains to be seen. Haha, I don't think the "guy's a dangerous convict" story will work this time. Riley must notice that Cromartie is bulletproof and doesn't need a door to walk out the building. [/quote] I was just going by what already was said in the truck. Your right though - if she hangs around John and the Connors long enough, she'll realize somethings abnormal and strange. And lingo like Tripple Eight, Terminator and even by what she observes - bullet-proof superhumans (Cromartie, Cameron) with metal underneath the skin, she'll either ask or have to be told the truth eventually. Assuming she doesn't get killed in the process.
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tom
Private
I'll be back....as soon as I figure out how I can leave.
Posts: 128
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Post by tom on Nov 9, 2008 20:42:42 GMT -5
Yeah, if she survives (and looks like she will) sooner or later she'll know the truth. I can't wait when (if) she finds out the truth about Cameron. I see the scene; up close Cam flashing the blue eyes on the Security Risk...whoops, I mean Riley! ;D
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wb5
Private
Posts: 230
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Post by wb5 on Nov 10, 2008 6:42:56 GMT -5
The world is going to end in a few years. Riley is going to either die in a nuclear holocaust, die in a Skynet purge, or end up in the tunnels. Anything she could learn from Derek and Sarah is going to be really, really useful. And while Bedell is going into the military in order to be well positioned to aid John when the time comes, it makes sense that he learn at the feet of Sarah and Derek while he still can. (Yes, John knows when and how Martin Bedell will die, and that sucks, but look at it this way: Jesus probably knew when and how John the Baptist would die, but I don't think it affected their relationship too much. ) The world is not necessarily ending in a few years - the Connors and Derek are still trying to stop this, and they have already succeeded at postponing it a few times (compared to T2's original timeline at least - not sure what the original judgement day date in T1 was). He also doesn't know for sure when and how Martin will die - not only can things change completely if Skynet is stopped alltogether, every change in the past alters the future to some extent. Things have already changed compared to the future that Derek knew, compared to the future Cameron knew. Martin may or may not die like Derek remembers, but it doesn't have to happen exactly like that. Perhaps Connor, now warned, will avoid capture alltogether on this occasion (if it still happens). By the way, in the truly original timeline, the one before timetravel started, John Connor obviously wasn't the person we know from either T2, T3 or TSCC. Kyle Reese wasn't his father. So the guy who was originally targeted by Skynet , who rose to be leader of the rebellion, had a different father and a different upbringing. No wonder he may not always seem like this mythic figure of T1. Riley will certainly survive this episode - she has later appearances in the show. I'm not sure if she will be told about Terminators and/or put 1 and 1 together to get 2 herself, or if she will only think that the Connors are involved with some really heavy criminals. I guess it depends on how much she will see - she may not get the opportunity (this episode) to observe that Cameron and Cromartie can take bullet after bullet, or that there is metal under the skin, , or how strong those 2 are, depending on what happens and where Riley is at that moment. However, even if Riley doesn't see anything that really makes things clear, John will have a lot of explaining to do, with the Connor name and the whole death squad thing.
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Post by sandrinha on Nov 10, 2008 17:41:14 GMT -5
I'm hoping we get a Cam/John quasi friendship scene in the bed one, no sexual innuendo just someone who will listen to someone who needs venting. She may not understand him most of the times but she will never abandon him (Sarah's words in T2).
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Post by vicheron on Nov 10, 2008 18:17:55 GMT -5
The world is going to end in a few years. Riley is going to either die in a nuclear holocaust, die in a Skynet purge, or end up in the tunnels. Anything she could learn from Derek and Sarah is going to be really, really useful. And while Bedell is going into the military in order to be well positioned to aid John when the time comes, it makes sense that he learn at the feet of Sarah and Derek while he still can. (Yes, John knows when and how Martin Bedell will die, and that sucks, but look at it this way: Jesus probably knew when and how John the Baptist would die, but I don't think it affected their relationship too much. ) The world is not necessarily ending in a few years - the Connors and Derek are still trying to stop this, and they have already succeeded at postponing it a few times (compared to T2's original timeline at least - not sure what the original judgement day date in T1 was). He also doesn't know for sure when and how Martin will die - not only can things change completely if Skynet is stopped alltogether, every change in the past alters the future to some extent. Things have already changed compared to the future that Derek knew, compared to the future Cameron knew. Martin may or may not die like Derek remembers, but it doesn't have to happen exactly like that. Perhaps Connor, now warned, will avoid capture alltogether on this occasion (if it still happens). But the future hasn't changed. Everyone sent back came from different points in the future. If the future changes whenever someone is sent back then the new people who are sent back will be from different futures. So far, there's nothing to suggest that the new people who came back are from different futures. Jesse has the same recollection as Derek. If the future has changed then Jesse would be a different person than the Jesse Derek knew since she would be from a future where Skynet wasn't built by Andy. Actually, Kyle Reese told Sarah that she prepared John for Judgment Day, "It was an honor. A chance to meet the legend. Sarah Connor. Who taught her son to fight...organize, prepare. From when he was a kid. When you were in hiding, before the war." It's a predesintation paradox. The "original" John Connor has always been Kyle Reese's son.
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wb5
Private
Posts: 230
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Post by wb5 on Nov 10, 2008 20:02:16 GMT -5
But the future hasn't changed. Everyone sent back came from different points in the future. If the future changes whenever someone is sent back then the new people who are sent back will be from different futures. And it seems that this is the case. That's how the date of Judgment day keeps changing (which obviously has consequences for the people involved, who lives and who dies, and so on), that's how Skynet's origin keeps changing (it was from Dyson, than it was from Brewster and his guys in the military, than it was from Andy Goode, and now it's apparently Weaver who makes sure it will be Skynet) that's also how it's possible that John Connor in T3 meets Catherine Brewster and in (most of) the other timelines he apparently doesn't. In TSCC, we now have a John Connor who is 8 years younger that he should be - that's another future right there. Not too mention, if they actually manage to stop Judgement day, or at least postpone it until John Connor dies of natural causes, they have brought about a very drastic change. The future is not predetermined in the Terminator universe; that was one of the big thematic points of T2. No future but what we make. Actually, Kyle Reese told Sarah that she prepared John for Judgment Day, "It was an honor. A chance to meet the legend. Sarah Connor. Who taught her son to fight...organize, prepare. From when he was a kid. When you were in hiding, before the war." It's a predesintation paradox. The "original" John Connor has always been Kyle Reese's son. That may have been the intention by the time of T1 (you have a good point on what Kyle told her), but predestination was dropped by T2, on which TSCC is based. Now it seems to be a multiple timelines-affair. OK by me, I always thought such presdestination paradoxes (as also used by Babylon 5, for example) were silly, even for a timetravel story. It's not really a paradox, as a paradox should still make sense, and Kyle Reese as John's original dad makes no sense.
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rossbondreturns
Corporal
Summer 08 Wallpaper Challenge Winner!
Posts: 1,617
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 10, 2008 20:10:50 GMT -5
Nope Multiple timelines are horrible in the Terminator universe....and they don't work.
What is that point of fighting to change your future if you're not changing your damned future?
In my conversations with Cameron he stated emphatically that it is NOT multiple timelines.
It is one timeline that goes interrupted and formed a loop.
Then end the end the loop is hopefully broken.
Actually the Terminator Loop is more like a Capital Q than anything.
Q
With the little tail being the Future extending after Kyle is sent back.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Nov 10, 2008 20:13:58 GMT -5
Watching the episode - just started 13mins ago and dang.......!
This is one TIGHT episode.......!
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Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 10, 2008 21:09:37 GMT -5
this episode was awesome! it reminds of that simpsons episode. lol anyway i dont even know where to start. do i start with the chartector scew ups or the good parts hahah yes we all know the bathroom kid would lead Cromartie to them. john is a screw up. riley needs to shot in the head Cromartie was awesome. I LOVED the shoot out in the church. Ellison was good. im still pumped. i dont even know what else to type. oh i i still want the chevelle
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