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Post by Derek Reese on Feb 29, 2008 1:00:41 GMT -5
Discuss it here.
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Post by oneye on Feb 29, 2008 15:46:13 GMT -5
I would like the show to continue right up to the Terminator 4 movie. There is so little on TV that I like to watch.
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Post by Derek Reese on Feb 29, 2008 15:49:48 GMT -5
Hopefully, we'll get that and FOX won't fall into its usual logic.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 1, 2008 19:55:30 GMT -5
Seriously.
As a person who doesn't watch reality TV or game shows, there's not a lot on that I'm interested in watching. Maybe if more networks programmed stuff like TSCC that have heart and action and excitement and ACTING and SCRIPTS I'd watch more TV.
As for season two (yes, please) I'm dying to know how Derek is going to fit into the Connor clan long-term. Sarah doesn't like Cameron but she understands her usefulness, Derek seems to straight up hate her. And there's the problem with him murdering Andy Goode. I can't imagine either John or Sarah are going to approve.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Mar 1, 2008 21:42:12 GMT -5
Oh, I don't know. They had less evidence of Andy's connection to Skynet than Derek did and they were still thinking about killing him quite a few times. Derek just did what they wouldn't do. I'd suggest this little show called Supernatural about two brothers that ride the backroads of America hunting and killing things that go bump in the night but it's been pulled from the schedule ever since it aired it's last new episode Thursday.
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 1, 2008 22:32:09 GMT -5
The thing is Andy admitting that he was involved with the creation of Skynet. Andy wanted to be purged of his "sins", so Derek took it into his own hands and took care of the problem before it even happened as a favor for "future Andy."
One of the particular reasons I love this verse is the complexity of the relationships. None of the characters are strictly black or white, there's a lot of gray. Derek's got a mixed bag of motives, when it comes down to things. He went in on John's orders, but he's clearly got his own agenda for being there.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Mar 1, 2008 22:56:58 GMT -5
Oh for sure. After seeing D&D, I'm positive Derek thinks he can save his brother and that's really his motivation for everything. But by Kyle being John's father, Kyle's fate, unlike humanity's, is already sealed.
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 1, 2008 23:02:04 GMT -5
Not entirely. If he interacts with his brother at a younger age, getting him out of the line of fire and attempts to stop Judgement Day, it's possible to wipe out the timeline entirely or John's existence. Time travel in itself is risky.
The timeline that Derek himself came from was basically altered the moment that he came back, so whatever actions Derek brings into the timeline now are altering things in the future. Derek maybe able to change his own.
Let's face it we're living in a world, where: "There's no fate, but what we make it."
Really its up to much speculation as to what'll be changed and altered by Derek's own interaction. John maybe be there because of him, but it's possible too that Derek may end up erasing John out of existence. For the moment that's entirely theory.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Mar 1, 2008 23:22:52 GMT -5
This all gets really hairy really fast with the time travel stuff. For without J-Day John Connor can't exist. So if Sarah and John prevent it, then what? In order for John to still exist after J-Day has been prevented, Kyle must always be sent back to 1984 therefore always die.
Derek doesn't understand the magnitude of the importance of Kyle being sent back. He simply sees it as preventing Skynet, preventing J-Day therefore no Terminator is sent after Sarah Connor and no secret mission of time travel is needed for Kyle to carry out. He doesn't know that John Connor's very existence depends on Kyle going back. At this point he thinks all will be saved if he were to simply prevent Skynet but really Kyle will always be doomed to die for John to exist no matter what.
And no, I don't think that if he knew Kyle was John's father that he would purposefully endanger the existence of humanity's only vital leader (chip on his shoulder or not).
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 1, 2008 23:27:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree it does get hairy and the complications are going to have to likely play out over the next season.
I've got a gut feeling John's going to have to be the one to hone up to Kyle's death and explain the circumstances, despite the fact that it was before his time.
The time travel situation definitely makes the situation that much more complicated and there's not telling what method the writers are following.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 2, 2008 18:39:58 GMT -5
"They had less evidence of Andy's connection to Skynet than Derek did and they were still thinking about killing him quite a few times. Derek just did what they wouldn't do."
Which is going to be exactly why Sarah and John will have a problem with it because every time they've faced that choice, they've tried to work around it. Whether or not it's the right decision is another question.
Death isn't something that's glossed over or forgotten in this 'verse - Kyle Reese is still very much in John and Sarah's thoughts and just last week Sarah went and visited Andy's grave. Whatever he may or may not do in the future, Sarah mourns him now. She's not going to shrug off the news that Derek murdered him. No matter how good his intentions. And I think that's going to profoundly impact Sarah's willingness to have Derek around her son.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Mar 2, 2008 19:37:34 GMT -5
Yet she seems relatively alright with Cameron hanging around. Cameron is without a doubt a cold blooded killer. She even killed one of Sarah's best friends right in front of her for less reason than Derek had to kill Andy.
So yes the Connors would probably frown on Derek's actions against Andy but I can't see them altogether condemning him.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Mar 2, 2008 19:49:33 GMT -5
One must always conside that whatever theory of time travel they're using at least two things always happen or have to happen.
1: Skynet Must exist and Must become self aware: It is possible to delay this for a long time if done right. And if Delayed that long maybe it ends up being Johns SON John being the ssavior of humankind.
2: Kyle Must be sent back: To make everyone happy. Just kidding since the original timeline is long lost to history Kyle must be Johns father. Of course see point one to how that might be more important- even more so that one thinks.
The timeline can be lengthened greatly...the only thing in opposition to that is the writers imagination.
Wether or not it's possible we all want-
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 2, 2008 20:17:19 GMT -5
"So yes the Connors would probably frown on Derek's actions against Andy but I can't seem them condemning him with out seeming hypocritical."
Cameron's a Terminator. Derek's human - "why not just give it to them, if we're going to act like them" (1x03, "The Turk").
It makes me wonder if to get away from the terminator of the week scenario, Derek Reese wasn't brought on board to be more of an antagonist for Sarah - a direct challenge to her way of doing things.
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roseredscare
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Post by roseredscare on Mar 2, 2008 20:32:43 GMT -5
So what if Cameron's a Terminator? She's still hanging around John and still a killer.
Derek killed Andy because he knew what Andy was going to do and that little could stop him from doing it. As we saw when Sarah burned down Andy's house, Andy just rebuilt. The Connors didn't want to get their hands dirty by taking Andy out but they never came up with a decent way of stopping him otherwise.
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