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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 16, 2008 17:37:07 GMT -5
Yes indeed. A place to speculate and discuss spoilers in regards to Judgement Day.
Theorize, speculate, etc.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Jul 16, 2008 18:03:27 GMT -5
Should it happen?
The only part of T3 that actually worked was the stunningly bleak moment when John realized that he couldn't stop Judgement Day. Ending your movie with Armageddon is pretty ballsy, especially when preceeded by nearly two hours of pure C-grade Velveeta.
In the case of TSCC, it really depends on where you take the story and how you see the characters ending up. Sarah and John riding into the sunset seems implausibly *up* at this point, at the same time, seeing Sarah die and John go on to live through the end of the world has been done before and would be a really down note to end a series on.
The thing about TV is that the audience invests in the characters over time so, when charting an end, I think there's a greater pressure on the writer to come up with a final chapter that not only ends the story in an organic, internally-consistent and interesting way but does justice to the characters and the emotion invested in them by the audience.
Joss Whedon got it mostly right IMO with the final episode of Buffy, David Kemper did one better with Farscape: The Peacekeeper Wars but Whedon also showed how you don't end a series with Serenity and Strazynski flubbed his B5 finale pretty bad with "Sleeping in the Light" and, while I'm not a fan, the final episode of Enterprise was reportedly horrible on every level (when you female lead is bashing the script in the press, you have problems).
In terms of a gutsy play with the story, I think it would be interesting to kill John in the final episode and have Sarah survive Judgement Day to fight the machines but the fanboys would rise up en mass (of course, if the series is ending, does that matter?). You could also play with Skynet evolving and Sarah getting John and Cameron there in time to midwife the birth of this new intelligence, preventing Judgement Day by preventing the specific events that led to Armageddon or maybe just being on hand to cut the telephone lines to the silos. There are a lot of different ways the story could go, especially since you're dealing with time travel and you've got parallel timelines and quantum universes to play with.
Even if this time the only difference is that Sarah lives to see Judgement Day and survives to keep fighting with John, it would be more interesting than the story marching lockstep towards Judgement Day like a foregone conclusion. That ending only works in T3 because the audience honestly didn't expect it. In TSCC, to create something of equal impact to that ending, the writers are going to have to do something new.
Which is a long way of saying... it depends.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Jul 16, 2008 21:01:45 GMT -5
If I had to choose an ending, here it is short and simple:
Derek falls victim to Cromartie, Sarah sacrifices her life to save John from Cromartie (an epic scene where she jumps in front of bullets fired by Artie @ John), which in turn, ends up with John and Cameron eventually destroying and terminating Cromartie, and finally ending with J-day being inevitable and Cameron ensuring John's survival by getting him underground while she goes on to fight Skynet while they drop the bombs, only to lose her "life" in the explosions.
End show with John underground training for the war...
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Jul 17, 2008 0:23:50 GMT -5
If it ends without Judgment Day I will slaughter someone.
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Post by driftlight23 on Jul 17, 2008 2:05:27 GMT -5
I don't think it should be at all clear if it's going to happen or not. Part of the tension of T:SCC is that they may well have a decent stab at preventing it.
I'd quite like them to prevent it because the world is so bloody depressing at the moment, frankly, and I'd like some hope on the screen, but even if they don't, I don't like the idea of watching four seasons of SCC knowing it's definitely going to happen.
Also, if they do prevent it, they can then go on to tackle global warming.
I want to see Cameron taking out evil oil execs. Yes. ;
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Jul 17, 2008 2:27:31 GMT -5
Personally if they stop Judgment Day than IMHO a series that has stayed excessively close to Camerons original vision will have fumbled the ball at the goal line.
Having talked with Cameron on numerous occasion hisintent was never to stop Judgment Day simply because he realized that it was impossible to stop.
Even were The 4 Horsemen (Sarah, John, Derek and Cameron) able to wipeout EVERY fragment of Skynet technology. Which in and of itself would be exceptionally miraculous at this point in time Skynet would still find a way to become.
To exist.
And instead of John fighting the menace it would be his Children.
We opened pandoras box he said to me once...can you really get EVERYTHING back in and locked up. Not bloody likely.
Stopping Skynet now is like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.
I don't want SCC to Jump the Shark.
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Post by vicheron on Jul 17, 2008 2:33:57 GMT -5
They're not going to stop Judgment Day just by doing what they're doing now. They're very focused on what Kyle told Sarah, "The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves." But four people are not going to be able to change the fate of the entire world. Even in the future, John doesn't defeate Skynet all by himself. He taught the survivors how to fight the machines. John changed the people's way of thinking, before he came long, the human race thought that it was doomed but John gave them hope and a reason to fight. That is the only way to stop Judgment Day. John has to change people's way of thinking. Simply destroying the technology Skynet is based on or getting rid of the people who are trying to build it won't change anything. People have to know why Skynet shouldn't be created or they'll keep trying to build it. As long as the Connors keep hiding in the shadows, waging their secret crusade against Skynet, they will not prevent Judgment Day.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Jul 17, 2008 10:13:33 GMT -5
Personally if they stop Judgment Day than IMHO a series that has stayed excessively close to Camerons original vision will have fumbled the ball at the goal line. Eh, at some point the story has to stand on its own. Respecting the characters and the story that James Cameron created is one thing but being chained to it is another and, ultimately, defeats the purpose of doing a series (and further movies) in the first place. That said, you stop the development of Skynet, at best you've prevented a specific apocalypse. There's still every other thing out there that has the potential to destroy the world, and a machine apocalypse completely unrelated to Skynet not the least of them. Dark highway at night and all that... |
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Jul 17, 2008 12:30:36 GMT -5
If it ends without Judgment Day I will slaughter someone. Agreed. Plus, what would be the point of Dekker's Connor finally becoming a badass and taking on his role of eventually becoming the leader of the resistance? |
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Post by vicheron on Jul 18, 2008 1:30:47 GMT -5
Personally if they stop Judgment Day than IMHO a series that has stayed excessively close to Camerons original vision will have fumbled the ball at the goal line. Eh, at some point the story has to stand on its own. Respecting the characters and the story that James Cameron created is one thing but being chained to it is another and, ultimately, defeats the purpose of doing a series (and further movies) in the first place. But there are some very basic ideas that they have to preserve because they are what define the series. It's like how no matter who owns the rights to Star Trek, the Federation has to be focused on peaceful exploration. No matter who owns Star Wars, the primary conflict has to be between the Jedi and Sith. No matter who owns Terminator, Skynet and Judgment Day will always be the driving force behind the story. Awww, there's no need to be so bleak. Everything will be fine when the zombies come and take away that cumbersome mind that you've been saddled with. |
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Jul 18, 2008 2:00:45 GMT -5
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM BBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAINNNNNNNSSSSS!!
I'd rather fight Machines with my mind intact.
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Post by vicheron on Jul 18, 2008 6:52:13 GMT -5
Just keep on thinking that machines are going to destroy the world when the zombies are obviously the real threat. We aren't even close to making a neural net processor and yet Paris Hilton's book was a New York Times bestseller. It should be obvious to everyone who sees the evidence that the zombies are the true menace to the human race but the zombie industrial complex has done a very good job of covering up the truth and propping up false threats to throw off our attention. The Connors may be able to prevent a machine apocalypse but it won't matter once the zombies come for us.
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Post by terminatornerd on Jul 20, 2008 22:37:30 GMT -5
Nope... end without it. Keep it hopeful yet still mysterious like James Cameron's original vision. Otherwise, it's T3 all over again.
I'd also have Cameron live on (too often the machine gets scrapped... why?) If she's supposed to be a member of a loving family unit I'd rather see Sarah start to look upon her as like a daughter (or daugher-in-law, if I may be so bold!)... a very troubled and tough as steel rebar daughter.
What do mothers or parents in general usually do when their "children" are threatened? They protect them, even with their lives. Parents never want to out live their own children. That's a fate worse than death.
If there is to be a final act to this show (and it lasts many seasons to get there) I feel it would be the best possible twist that Sarah saves Cameron's life (as Cam did Sarah by jumping her past her demise and dumping the cruddy T3 time line). They can choose how to go about this, but it would be such a deeply loving and caring gesture IMHO. It also shows that Cameron has become as worthy of existance and affection as a human (the Tin-Miss has a heart, after all), and Sarah realizes it in the end. There is enough love and room in Sarah's own heart for both John and Cameron.
It's like The Wizard granting the Tin-Man his wish: humanity and a soul (the heart is only a symbol of that)... though those aspects were always there; just hidden.
John and Cam ride off together into that unknown future, down the never ending, black highway and better people for having had Sarah in their lives.
Cameron wraps it up with her own narration at the end. She and John (sentient machine and man as a team) are writing this next chapter of the story.
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Post by Derek Reese on Jul 20, 2008 22:52:13 GMT -5
The entire point to destroying the Terminators entirely was to make sure that Judgement Day wouldn't happen. So that the technology couldn't fall into the hands of others and create another Skynet, which would still be very possible if Cameron was in play.
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Post by vicheron on Jul 21, 2008 0:50:36 GMT -5
Why do people assume that Cameron wants to become more human? It's funny how people attribute Cameron with human characteristics but in the end still treat her like she has no real choice. If Cameron does develop a consciousness, assuming she doesn't have one already, then it's up to her to decide whether or not she'll have a relationship with John, it'll be up to her to decide whether or not she'll continue protecting the Connors, it'll be up to her to decide whether or not she wants to become more human, and it'll be up to her to decide whether or not humans are worth saving. Remember, Skynet turned against the human race after it became conscious. Cameron could reach a similar conclusion.
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