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Post by vicheron on Jan 28, 2009 3:39:38 GMT -5
If you can think of a dozen ways Sarah AND Cameron AND Riley get separated from John that doesn't degrade the show, let's hear them. Off the top of my head, I can't. That's cause you're not using your imagination. I'll pitch a few: -Big explosion. John gets separated from the rest of the family. -Massive traffic crash. John gets separated from family. -Sarah gets infected with a highly contagious disease. John HAS to stay away from her. -Someone is after Sarah so she sends John away to keep him out of the crossfire. -Sarah is led to believe that John has been killed. -Sarah leaves John at home and goes to the grocery story. Only one cash register is working. -Sarah suffers from a mysterious illness that exhibits the symptoms of cancer but tests show no signs of tumors or leukemia. The oncologists have no idea what's wrong with her. Sarah is forced to leave John to go to a hospital in New Jersey where her only hope lies with a surly and arrogant doctor named House. -Sarah is finally captured by law enforcement and gets put in a maximum security prison. John has to find the schematics to the prison to be tattooed on his body and then commit a major felony so he can get arrested. Cameron has to go to law school so she can represent John at his criminal trial and get him incarcerated in the same prison as Sarah so they can break out. -John joins the Chinese Imperial army to fight the invading Huns. Since the Imperial army does not accept female recruits, Sarah and Cameron must disguise themselves as men in order to join the army so they can protect John.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 28, 2009 5:13:27 GMT -5
OK, I'm gonna assume everybody's right, everything is fine, and nothing will change substantially, and we'll get a season three.
Actually, I can see one very good reason for splitting Cameron off from John - namely, that the PTB have finally figured out that having Cameron doing the Connor's laundry is simply idiotic for the person who is fifty percent of the show.
I was thinking today about just how valuable Cameron is simply as herself. Compared to everything else in the world, Cameron is just about THE most valuable entity - not to mention technology - on the planet. She's worth probably a few hundred billion dollars, if not a couple trillion, at least in terms of technology - and she's worth plenty just as herself as a functioning entity. I mean, a real AI with superhuman abilities? She makes the "Six Million Dollar Man" look like peanuts.
You could do five seasons of a "Fugitive" spinoff just having people chasing Cameron to get their hands on her. No John or Sarah needed. Considering that basically at this point, they have no where to go with Sarah, and little more to go with John, they'd really be smart to start transforming the show into one more about Cameron than anybody else. Instead of giving her an episode or two per season, they should let her take up the fifty percent of the show she actually deserves, and let what happens to John and Sarah revolve around what she does in terms of her own agenda.
That would be interesting. Developing John, if that's the intent of stripping away the female characters, is going to be considerably less interesting. I suspect since the T-4 movie is about John alone that the PTB are considering altering "The Sarah Connor Chronicles" to become the "John Connor Chronicles" in order to lead into the movie.
I suspect that, just like the stand alone episodes which were imposed on Josh and the writers, and which only Tom admitted recently were not appreciated, that the back nine have also been imposed. Perhaps Tom's dropping spoilers is a sign of some internal dissension on the part of Josh and the writers. That would really explain why he said Josh specifically told him to say what he did - and also why Fox apparently came down hard on the Youtube posting of those videos. According to the Terminator wiki, Fox really was not happy about that.
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DEM
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Post by DEM on Jan 28, 2009 9:45:16 GMT -5
Actually, I can see one very good reason for splitting Cameron off from John - namely, that the PTB have finally figured out that having Cameron doing the Connor's laundry is simply idiotic for the person who is fifty percent of the show. First TPTB have to agree (with you) that Cameron is fifty percent of the show.
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Post by jaquio on Jan 28, 2009 18:14:29 GMT -5
First TPTB have to agree (with you) that Cameron is fifty percent of the show. you mean besides the fact that JF wrote the role with summer in mind? for someone who claims to be in love with her acting, he sure is giving her the shaft this season
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Jan 28, 2009 18:16:13 GMT -5
First TPTB have to agree (with you) that Cameron is fifty percent of the show. you mean besides the fact that JF wrote the role with summer in mind? for someone who claims to be in love with her acting, he sure is giving her the shaft this season Just because they had Summer in mind when writing the role doesn't mean she's half of it. It just means he had Summer in mind when writing the role..
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Post by richardstevenhack on Jan 28, 2009 18:20:25 GMT -5
If they don't, they will be making a mistake to mess with the character. Which is what concerns me about these supposed spoilers.
I suspect that, possibly due to some unspecified tie-ins in marketing with the T-4 movie, that the intent may be to make the show more "John-centric", given that the movie is all about John Connor. Then depending on how the movie is received, they'll decide how to remake the show in a third season.
i know they've said repeatedly that the show has nothing to do with the movie - which may be true, creatively, as far as Josh and the others go. But that may not be true as far as Fox and the studio goes. And the result may be pressure to remake the show more in line with the movie - which means ditching the female characters and making the show more "macho".
Which would be a huge mistake in my view. I mean, ditching Riley is a no-brainer. Separating Sarah from John to some degree wouldn't be that big a deal, as long as Sarah got some attention in the scripts. But further diminishing Cameron than she has been already would be a big mistake.
I notice the latest blog notes have nothing to do with the spoilers. Total silence from blog land on Tom's spoilers.
Look at it this way. Why would Tom say what he said? A), he knows people don't like spoilers (except me, I don't mind them at all); B) he knows Josh doesn't like spoilers (the clip Josh put in the last podcast just confirms what most people already knew, that Kyle is in the next episode with Sarah); C) so on top of that he explicitly says Josh told him to drop the spoilers that allegedly reveal most of the next nine episodes? Something doesn't add up. Tom's not dumb and he wasn't that drunk, if drunk at all. He wouldn't have said what he said unless A) he was completely goofing around (which is possible, just making it up for his own amusement), or B) it's more or less true.
So let's assume it's mostly true, including the part where Josh tells him to say that stuff. So what does Josh get from this? A) He knows people don't like spoilers; B) HE doesn't like spoilers; C) Telling Tom to SAY HE authorized the spoilers will immediately make people think the spoilers aren't true anyway. So what's the point?
Aside from the obvious benefit that it gets everybody talking about the show, and perhaps attracts a few new viewers as a result of the promise of a big change in the show, I can't see much benefit. And if that's true, I can't see why Fox came down hard on the videos of Tom being posted on Youtube.
Unless there's something going on with the show at Fox. LIke there's a tussle over the direction and/or fate of the show and/or its characters.
Actually I can't see much point in dropping the spoilers even for that, other than the vague possibility that a negative reaction from the fans would give Josh some ammunition in resisting any "improvements" from the PTB. It would seem to be a bit late on that since they've already filmed most of the back nine. Maybe they think they could redo some of them?
I don't know. I just know that if what Tom said was true, it's a weird direction for the show to take.
Just to add a note about Cameron: While I wouldn't say Josh has "given her the shaft" this season, I DO say she hasn't been developed as much as she was in the first nine episodes of season one. And being relegated to doing the Connor's laundry - even if that was merely a setup for an entire episode devoted to her - is pretty bad. Hopefully Cameron will be more utilized in the back nine - but if Tom's spoilers are true, it's hard to see how, if the show is somehow being made more "John-centric" - unless the reason she is stripped from him is precisely because of some significant development in her character. Let's hope so.
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Post by jaquio on Jan 28, 2009 19:05:25 GMT -5
1. joss whedon's vision of strong female roles is being undermined 2. the 'no terminator-of-the-week' promise has been broken. and broken. and broken 3. trying to shoehorn the series into the movie is bad bad bad. i dont care how much money is made off it 4. JF trying to throw off TPTB with foilers would help restore my faith in him. even more than the 'big reveal' i know is coming in the episodes ahead. right now hes the easiest target of opportunity for my nerd rage
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Post by allergygal on Jan 28, 2009 22:57:26 GMT -5
Fine, if we assume John's "he has no women" means for one or two or three episodes. That obviously was not his implication, however, when he says "all new show". He said explicitly, "they are on their own and he is on his own" in the videos. That implies multiple plot lines. And like allergygal says, that's a big mistake. What you need to understand about Tom's statement is that when it comes down to it, he sure as crap doesn't have a clue what S3 will encompass. Josh has a laid out idea of what S3 is about but that can always change and therefore make Tom's statements pointless. But, let's say Josh continues with whatever he has planned.. it could be that Tom just perceived it a certain way. Or, we're all not thinking outside the box. Wouldn't you say that S2 is like a whole new show when compared with S1? It could be just a few different dynamics and it makes it all different. Maybe they won't be on the defense in S3 and always defending people but maybe they'll accept J-Day and prepare for it? That would make it seem like a different show. So many different ways to take what he said other than everyone splits off on their own... Actually, if they really are going to split up Sarah and John (which again I both doubt and think would be a mistake), that would be the best way to do it — have John accepting his fate and preparing for it, while Sarah continues to the fight to change his fate. I don't ever see her giving up and accepting j-day as inevitable. I think that was the significance of The Wizard of Oz in Goodbye To All That. Sarah really realized that John is Dorothy and he'll never be free to live his life until the wicked witch (Skynet) is really dead. She already knew that, but it seemed to hit home in that last scene. OK, I'm gonna assume everybody's right, everything is fine, and nothing will change substantially, and we'll get a season three. Actually, I can see one very good reason for splitting Cameron off from John - namely, that the PTB have finally figured out that having Cameron doing the Connor's laundry is simply idiotic for the person who is fifty percent of the show. -- I suspect that, just like the stand alone episodes which were imposed on Josh and the writers, and which only Tom admitted recently were not appreciated, that the back nine have also been imposed. Perhaps Tom's dropping spoilers is a sign of some internal dissension on the part of Josh and the writers. That would really explain why he said Josh specifically told him to say what he did - and also why Fox apparently came down hard on the Youtube posting of those videos. According to the Terminator wiki, Fox really was not happy about that. Believe me, we all know that you see Cameron as 50% of the show!!!!!!! But I don't. Regardless, it's a really unfair characterization to say she does meaningless things like laundry all the time. We saw the laundry get passed off to her once at the beginning of an episode that was centered around her. It was meant as a humorous scene. If you want to talk further about Cameron and her laundry-doing and what percentage of the show she is, TAKE IT TO THE CAMERON THREAD. It's gone off topic for this thread. I notice the latest blog notes have nothing to do with the spoilers. Total silence from blog land on Tom's spoilers. The silence about the Thomas Dekker spoilers confirms for me that he told more than he was supposed to. It also confirms for me that they weren't foilers. If they were, I'm sure they'd be toying with us about them on the blog now, not dodging them all together.
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Post by terminatornerd on Feb 1, 2009 21:46:24 GMT -5
If they want to split up the gang they DESTROY the show. The fans wanted good interaction between the leads and saw a glimmer of that in S1. They liked John and Cameron's growing connection.
Then Josh decides to do a complete 180 from what was popular??
Even Lena supposedly is upset in the direction this season. And now they want to further split the team and make things EVEN DARKER??!!
I'm shaking my head. It's pure lunacy.
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Post by Hollow Crown on Feb 1, 2009 23:48:37 GMT -5
The darker this show gets, the better.
Terminator has never been a fairytale with joyus outcomes.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Feb 3, 2009 19:35:00 GMT -5
Has anyone thought that Cameron doesn't apply to any of the three endings? Dekker said all the women in his life will be gone, well.. technically Cameron isn't a woman. Maybe Riley betray John and die and Sarah leaves and Cameron does nothing?
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Post by aceplace57 on Feb 3, 2009 23:32:46 GMT -5
I hope TPTB took note of Heroes dramatic tumble in popularity since season 1. Convoluted storylines and killing off popular characters (like Elle) doesn't endure fans to a show. Heroes is trying to fix their mistakes the second half of this season by creating a storyline that forces the characters to finally quit squabbling and finally work together. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. That show never manages to tell a straight story that goes anywhere.
I see TSCC making a lot of the same mistakes. The same Weird story twists that creates more questions than answers. Characters with mixed allegiances that betray one another. Now, there's talk of John being left on his own and we still have another major character death before the season ends.
I'm concerned TSCC is heading for the same cliff that Heroes is close to falling off. It's ironic because TSCC got one of their stars (Dekker) and several writers from Heroes.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 5, 2009 14:38:13 GMT -5
Has anyone thought that Cameron doesn't apply to any of the three endings? Dekker said all the women in his life will be gone, well.. technically Cameron isn't a woman. Maybe Riley betray John and die and Sarah leaves and Cameron does nothing? He did specifically say Sarah, Cameron and Riley, though. One leaves, one betrays and one dies. And then later he said he's left alone with no women in his life. I hope TPTB took note of Heroes dramatic tumble in popularity since season 1. Convoluted storylines and killing off popular characters (like Elle) doesn't endure fans to a show. Heroes is trying to fix their mistakes the second half of this season by creating a storyline that forces the characters to finally quit squabbling and finally work together. I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop. That show never manages to tell a straight story that goes anywhere. I see TSCC making a lot of the same mistakes. The same Weird story twists that creates more questions than answers. Characters with mixed allegiances that betray one another. Now, there's talk of John being left on his own and we still have another major character death before the season ends. I'm concerned TSCC is heading for the same cliff that Heroes is close to falling off. It's ironic because TSCC got one of their stars (Dekker) and several writers from Heroes. Well we do know that the network interfered somewhat in the creative process this season (and not for the better, IMO). But really I felt the problems were that the story was kind of choppy and some aspects dragged while others moved along fine. I haven't seen any dead-ends or stories left hanging. Actually, Charley got left hanging — Michelle died, he tossed the Bible and we've not heard of him since. Aside from that, though, everything's been moving forward.
I think I'm back to my original idea that Sarah dies. I was thinking about the 3 dot dreams, which would seem to be the start of the main story arc of the rest of the season. I think the gist of those dreams was that Sarah is worried about dying and needs to get busy hunting Skynet or John will be left with no one to protect him but Cameron (who can't be trusted). If we follow that out to the leave/betray/die conclusion, it would seem to imply that Sarah dies, Cameron betrays and then Riley would have to be the one who leaves. The big question, of course, is how do you get Sarah back in season 3? Time travel from the past is the only way and that seems kind of half-baked. But it could be fun too. I don't know... I'm just feeling that Sarah is going to die this season.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Feb 5, 2009 16:37:39 GMT -5
My feeling is that Sarah is utterly and completely safe from dying. Cameron is probably too, even though I get worried from time to time. Riley's going to die. Anyone could betray, because that's rather vague. I hope it isn't Cameron becoming the enemy or some such.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Feb 5, 2009 16:45:02 GMT -5
I'm just feeling that Sarah is going to die this season. Maybe Sarah does die.. but maybe it's like for 20 minutes or something until they bring her back with CPR? Such a cop out, but hey it could happen!
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