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Post by Erika on Mar 9, 2009 12:00:41 GMT -5
I think Cameron will go down in a blaze of glory at the end of the season protecting John.
This Cameron is damaged...in the world of Terminator, same models are always being sent back in time - a newer, non-damaged version can be sent back again to replace this Cameron.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 9, 2009 12:23:15 GMT -5
I have faith they wont flush two seasons of character development down the drain. Cameron cannot be simply replaced anymore than Sarah can be.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Mar 9, 2009 12:56:23 GMT -5
I have faith they wont flush two seasons of character development down the drain. Cameron cannot be simply replaced anymore than Sarah can be. Why not? Arnie's Termie was different in every movie and it was fine. It'd be refreshing to have a Termie that isn't so jacked up. Leave the jacked upness to the humans, Terminators are supposed to be hardcore and Cam just isn't hardcore anymore.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 9, 2009 13:00:06 GMT -5
I think Cam's gonna fall into Weaver's hands, myself.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 9, 2009 13:18:54 GMT -5
Why not? Arnie's Termie was different in every movie and it was fine. It'd be refreshing to have a Termie that isn't so jacked up. Leave the jacked upness to the humans, Terminators are supposed to be hardcore and Cam just isn't hardcore anymore. Cameron isn't there just to be 'hard core', she's a character and that is by far more important than being 'hard core'. If that is how they consider her than it's a spit in the face to her fans. Her arc should end with everyone else's.
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 9, 2009 14:14:00 GMT -5
This Cameron is damaged...in the world of Terminator, same models are always being sent back in time - a newer, non-damaged version can be sent back again to replace this Cameron. I don't think I'd like that at all. As a matter of fact, if that were to happen, I think I'd stop watching the show. I just think spending two seasons developing this chemistry between Cameron and John and Cameron's own backstory, and then flushing it just like that would kill the show for me. I mean, not only killing off Cameron like that, but then we're faced with more people coming back from the future... and to be honest, I don't want to see ANYONE coming back for a fairly long time. Combine those two things and I think that's a recipe for disaster. That's just my opinion, though... I don't know how others would feel about the situation.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 14:39:42 GMT -5
I have faith they wont flush two seasons of character development down the drain. Cameron cannot be simply replaced anymore than Sarah can be. Why not? Arnie's Termie was different in every movie and it was fine. It'd be refreshing to have a Termie that isn't so jacked up. Leave the jacked upness to the humans, Terminators are supposed to be hardcore and Cam just isn't hardcore anymore. Since when is gaining character & personality development considered 'jacked up'? The differences between T1 and T2 is there wasn't any developed personal character interaction and personality carrying over from T1 to T2. T1 was a one-shot deal. T2 was a one shot deal also (even though its a continuation within the franchise). Sure, Arnie's back, but now as a different serial numbered unit, just of the same "visual template" as the previous unit that was sent back (only because Arnold filled the role again). Linda Hamilton also reprised her role as Sarah Connor, but if we remember, she totally freaked out scared [expletive deleted] at the hospital as "Unlcle Bob" came around the bend with a loaded shotgun as she was escaping herself. And for good reason. Sure, "Uncle Bob" was hardcore at the beginning of T2, ramping his Harley down a storm gutter, etc, but ever since rescuing John, John's interaction has been imprinting some new personality onto "Uncle Bob". When John's teaching Uncle Bob some catchy phrase lines. Or or scene at the gas station as Sarah observes and comments with her voice over about how Uncle Bob is like the perfect father figure - never hits or scolds, etc, all the while John's teaching the High-five game to Uncle Bob. Thats what made the ending termination scene so great and sad. All that development into the character has come to an end, and Uncle Bob was physically jacked-up. Had Uncle Bob met an unfortunate end during mid movie, before John got to interact much with Uncle Bob, then it'd be oh well... Look, a new look alike replacement arrived. Oh look, they defeated the T1000, he's physically damaged and has to be terminated. Ah well, thats ok, the terminator did its job. Which would've been about as sadly emotional as seeing the T1000 get grenade exploded and toppling backwards into the vat of molten steel... No emotional attachment was made with the T1000, it had very few lines and just killed people prior to impersonating them. Now, if Cameron is terminated / destroyed, and a replacement Cameron is sent back: A.) She'd only be the same / retain the same memories that transpired over the past 2 seasons is if Present!John pulled her chip and kept if safe through J-Day and when the time was right, transfer the data from the chip to a fresh chip and plug it into the new / fresh Future!Cameron and send her back to Present!John. That would also allow Future!John to retain Future!Cam's chip, find another look-alike body, swap chips and be able to have Cameron around. That'll suffice I guess, although some might cry its a cheap cop-out. Though at least it would retain the former Cameron character. B.) A fresh / blank slate Cameron as a replacement. [expletive deleted] no... So basically all personality that was developed would be gone, the whole 'do not kill' and 'why its not alright to kill' teaching process will have to be taught again. Same goes for any human values / qualities the previous Cameron picked up is gone. It just won't be the same. Might as well just call the new one Amanda or something, dye and cut her hair while your at it. Its just, replacing the current Cameron character with a new one would be painfully reminiscent of the old Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes - every episode was fresh and standalone. The characters were reset to blank slates each new episode. C.) The other alternative already mentioned by someone else, is if her chip was pulled, thus deactivating her for a while. Perhaps the dust would settle for a bit, as John is able to plug the chip into his laptop, check the chip's integrity for damaged areas. (and hopefully not snoop in Cameron's memories). And also does the same for her body - plug the laptop into it and run some diagnostics. As RossBondReturns mentioned in 2x17 or 2x18, maybe Cameron's damage isn't so much internal Chip damage, but rather mechanical damage. It would be a process of troubleshooting and diagnostics, swapping out one part at a time until where the fault is identified. John already swapped out one arm actuator piece. Since the problem still persists intermittently, logic tells me (I'm a computer technician) theres the fault lies elsewhere - perhaps where the actuator rod connects into the wrist, or at the elbow joint, or possibly its the next segment above the elbow and between the shoulder. This would make for a nice cliffhanger, as well as some interesting episodes for season 3. Sarah would be trying to destroy the chip if she could just get her hands on it, as well as trying to convince John to let go of it and smelt the body. D.) Present!Cameron is Terminated beyond salvagability (body & chip), a new Cameron is sent back, and suddenly has all the previous memories of former Cameron... that'll be a major WTF!?!?!? moment, and IMHO a very cheap cop-out by the writers. That'll break my suspension of belief. :edit/addendum: minor adjustments. Looks like we're on the same page regarding sentiments Hollow Crown
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 9, 2009 14:52:48 GMT -5
Co-sign, Terras.
Option C actually sounds like the most logical situation.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 15:11:50 GMT -5
Thanks Hollow Crown
It just hit me , theres one more worse outcome that can happen as a result if they kill Cameron and bring her back. And its not just the lost character development. It would be easy for the writers to get used to using Cameron as an expendable character of the week. Oh on- oh yes... If Cameron gets smashed up in one episode, who cares right? She'll come back fresh and hardcore from the future in the next episode or two. And I thought some of us were already crying foul about how simple and cheap time-traveling has become in the future for both Skynet and the Resistance, nolonger making it a special occasion but a regular convenience.
The writers already comfortably do that with Skynet ala "Terminator of the Week" ... Lets see- after Vic, there was.... Carter (season 1), Greenway, Bedell, Ellison, Rosie, Myron Stark, the Fields Terminator, Comartie/John Henry... Do we need / want Cameron becoming a disposable and recyclable Cameron?
Just some food for thought there...
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 9, 2009 15:35:18 GMT -5
Hmm, I don't think they'd go THAT far. I think we need to give the writers of this show more credit than that, haha.
I think if they killed off the current Cameron and then sent another one back, that'd be a one time thing. Still, doing that just one time is still very iffy and you run the risk of alienating your audience. I mean, how can you throw away Cameron's development, especially from episodes like S&D and Self Made Man? That just screams illogical, IMHO.
Schmacky mentioned Cameron not being hardcore or w/e, but I don't think she was never supposed to be some badass from the get go. It's already been established that she isn't designed to fight other machines, so I think you also add another dimension to her character by mentioning that. It looks like Cameron has a much deeper purpose than just protecting John. Why would you send back a machine to protect your younger self if the machine you're sending back isn't designed for combat? There's just so many questions about Cameron right now, that killing her off would be a real killer to this show's audience.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Mar 9, 2009 15:46:09 GMT -5
Schmacky mentioned Cameron not being hardcore or w/e, but I don't think she was never supposed to be some badass from the get go. It's already been established that she isn't designed to fight other machines, so I think you also add another dimension to her character by mentioning that. It looks like Cameron has a much deeper purpose than just protecting John. Why would you send back a machine to protect your younger self if the machine you're sending back isn't designed for combat? There's just so many questions about Cameron right now, that killing her off would be a real killer to this show's audience. When I said she wasn't hardcore, I wasn't saying that was her mission. But for story purposes, for the audience.. she is. People have complained that Sarah Connor wasn't the hardcore badass Sarah Connor of the movies. Well Cameron isn't necessarily the hardcore badass machine that Arnie was. And she IS jacked up. I didn't say anything about character development and all that stuff.. but she is messed up. Her chip is jacked, she glitches, she forgets she's a machine, her hand is twitching, she didn't kill Riley when a S1 Cameron would have. Yes, it's more interesting for Cameron to have these issues to develop her character but it's also made her lose that "badass machine" to her. I didn't even say I would like for them to send a new Cameron into the past but that it's possible and wouldn't be utter crap because it's been done before with another Terminator.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 9, 2009 15:51:40 GMT -5
It's already been established that she isn't designed to fight other machines. I wouldn't put to much stock in that line, HC. No terminator is designed to fight other machines. See above - you send the machine back because even if it isn't designed to fight other terminators, it's still stronger, faster, more resilient than a human protector. The first season strongly implied that Cameron was chosen because she would blend into John's life as opposed to an Arnie-sized model who would definitely raise questions if it attempted to transfer into John's biology class.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 16:03:06 GMT -5
When I said she wasn't hardcore, I wasn't saying that was her mission. But for story purposes, for the audience.. she is. People have complained that Sarah Connor wasn't the hardcore badass Sarah Connor of the movies. Well Cameron isn't necessarily the hardcore badass machine that Arnie was. And she IS jacked up. I didn't say anything about character development and all that stuff.. but she is messed up. Her chip is jacked, she glitches, she forgets she's a machine, her hand is twitching, she didn't kill Riley when a S1 Cameron would have. Yes, it's more interesting for Cameron to have these issues to develop her character but it's also made her lose that "badass machine" to her. I didn't even say I would like for them to send a new Cameron into the past but that it's possible and wouldn't be utter crap because it's been done before with another Terminator. Ahh, thats more clear now. I had thought you meant when you said "It'd be refreshing to have a Termie that isn't so jacked up. Leave the jacked upness to the humans," you were refering to the faults and flaws human develop. If we recall, the writers decided to remind everyone that Cameron's still a dangerous machine at the end of Season1 / Season2 opening. Place a car bomb in her Jeep, blow it up and have Cameron revert to Termination mode and hunt John Connor. And the path the writers took from there- a glitch here, a glitch there, etc. With about the same ease and frequency as a bad habit develops. Hence the Terminator of the Week habit. So while it might be a good intention to replace Cameron with a fresh one, (however you'd think it best to go about it), its something that the writers will end up turning into a bad habit.
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Post by Erika on Mar 9, 2009 16:05:05 GMT -5
A.) She'd only be the same / retain the same memories that transpired over the past 2 seasons is if Present!John pulled her chip and kept if safe through J-Day and when the time was right, transfer the data from the chip to a fresh chip and plug it into the new / fresh Future!Cameron and send her back to Present!John. That would also allow Future!John to retain Future!Cam's chip, find another look-alike body, swap chips and be able to have Cameron around. That'll suffice I guess, although some might cry its a cheap cop-out. Though at least it would retain the former Cameron character.Actually considering that Skynet is now adding self destruct mechanisms in chips of Terminator so that John can't just change them out at random, I think that's a VERY likely scenario. The truth is if we're going to have the death of a loved one and the person that they're NOT referring to is Charley - then Cameron is likely the next best option. I could see her suddenly popping up all fixed but technically still the same Cameron, even though she's not...call it Josh's ode to BSG
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 16:16:29 GMT -5
That could still also imply Derek too, he's been around in the series long enough to be part of the main cast and admired by fans JF also implied a character death early in season2, tho low and behold it was a technicality, Cromartie dies, and resurrected as John Henry. You do have a good point there, thats a major development in the future timeline that can have some adverse affects and implications for both Present & Future Johns.
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