rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Mar 9, 2009 16:19:19 GMT -5
I'd prefer it to be a human character.
They've already bought one Terminator back from the dead by making him something else.
We need a human we care about to die.
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Post by samuel95 on Mar 9, 2009 16:20:31 GMT -5
Let me give the boring alternative: Josh blows up everyone and everything so he can do whatever he wants next season. If they can't afford the actors when the show moves to ESPN 8, then they died or had post-explosion reconstructive surgery. If they come back to Fox they keep the best actors and story lines.
Cameron may be expendable, but Summer is not--too many lost viewers. At this point it would be hard (but not impossible) to keep Sarah without keeping Lena. John is the only completely essential character and I think we're also going to have Thomas. Everyone else is completely expendable (sorry Derek and BAG). In the end Summer may be surprised by what it appears they filmed--it is sci-fi anyway. Hopefully not the death of Cameron.
Thats what I think anyway. I'll go back to reading posts from people who have an imagination and have put some real thought in it.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Mar 9, 2009 16:20:53 GMT -5
Why not? Arnie's Termie was different in every movie and it was fine. It'd be refreshing to have a Termie that isn't so jacked up. Leave the jacked upness to the humans, Terminators are supposed to be hardcore and Cam just isn't hardcore anymore. Cameron isn't there just to be 'hard core', she's a character and that is by far more important than being 'hard core'. If that is how they consider her than it's a spit in the face to her fans. Her arc should end with everyone else's. I agree with you, t101. Today I was asked (in a poll somewhere) if I'd keep watching TSCC in case Cameron was out of the cast in a possible season 3. This is a transcription/translation of my answer: Yes, I would. But it wouldn't be the same thing at all. IMO, TSCC without Cameron would be losing not only a formidable actress as Summer Glau, but it would be losing a great part of its plot substantial connection with James Cameron's vision, since the subplot that's showing us the way John's getting involved in a strong emotional attachment to a terminator like Cameron (all the controversial debate included) is something that gives me the wonderful vibe of a great connection between the series and James Cameron's original idea. If we contemplated for a second T2's ending with Sarah's VO: "If a machine can learn the value of the human life, probably we can too", and before that, having seen uncle Bob telling young John: "Now I understand why cry, but it is something I could never do" [and taking into account that Cameron did cry in Alison From Palmdale and wasn't just imitating real Alison but believing she actually was Alison - I mean, when she called Alison's future mom and she didn't recognize her, she cried, and she wasn't imitating Alison in that particular occasion, it was clearly Cameron who cried] then we would see the extraordinary connection between James Cameron's vision and the vital role played by Cameron in TSCC - See the connection? If you see this connection, then you cannot deny that we will be losing much more than a "stupid teenage love story" like some people believe it represents. We'll be losing a great part of the original James Cameron' message: Hope. Without Cameron learning to understand and respect the value of human life, this part of the message that James Cameron wanted to give us as a gift of hope would be completely wasted. And a whole substantial part of the franchise would be left out...  |
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 9, 2009 16:25:37 GMT -5
My theory is that Cameron's recent glitch wasn't really a malfunction as such. I mean she arrived at this point perhaps because of past malfunctions. But what this is about is her development has reached a point where she can't decide what the best course of action is. And it's driving her mad because a machine is always supposed to know the 'right' answer. She's tormented because everything is more complicated than what she's used to. She's not supposed to not know what to do but finds that it's sometimes impossible to always have everything neatly fit together.
I think Cameron does not need to be fixed with a screwdriver or a computer. She needs to figure out how to live with this and make choices that aren't always obvious. Her world view is changing.
She's 'jacked up'. Well, exactly. Use it. Don't put it down the toilet. They want to explore AI, well don't push the reset button, take it new places.
I do not believe Cameron will be replaced or any variation of.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Mar 9, 2009 16:30:48 GMT -5
I do not believe Cameron will be replaced or any variation of. Nope but you know how Weaver was looking for that computer that cross against the light...? |
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 9, 2009 16:34:39 GMT -5
Nope but you know how Weaver was looking for that computer that cross against the light...? Well if they restrict her to some room in CW's office where she'll be like John Henry... ugh... no! |
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Post by gothamite66 on Mar 9, 2009 16:40:43 GMT -5
Nope but you know how Weaver was looking for that computer that cross against the light...? Well if they restrict her to some room in CW's office where she'll be like John Henry... ugh... no! But... if Cameron went willingly to CW? Remember the Dekker Tapes revealed one would die, one would betray John and one would leave John. |
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 9, 2009 16:45:29 GMT -5
Cameron becoming irreversibly the enemy is another no no for me. I have quiet a few...
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Mar 9, 2009 16:47:07 GMT -5
Thanks Hollow CrownIt just hit me , theres one more worse outcome that can happen as a result if they kill Cameron and bring her back. And its not just the lost character development. It would be easy for the writers to get used to using Cameron as an expendable character of the week. Oh on- oh yes... If Cameron gets smashed up in one episode, who cares right? She'll come back fresh and hardcore from the future in the next episode or two. And I thought some of us were already crying foul about how simple and cheap time-traveling has become in the future for both Skynet and the Resistance, nolonger making it a special occasion but a regular convenience. The writers already comfortably do that with Skynet ala "Terminator of the Week" ... Lets see- after Vic, there was.... Carter (season 1), Greenway, Bedell, Ellison, Rosie, Myron Stark, the Fields Terminator, Comartie/John Henry... Do we need / want Cameron becoming a disposable and recyclable Cameron? Just some food for thought there... Hmm, I don't think they'd go THAT far. I think we need to give the writers of this show more credit than that, haha. I think if they killed off the current Cameron and then sent another one back, that'd be a one time thing. Still, doing that just one time is still very iffy and you run the risk of alienating your audience. I mean, how can you throw away Cameron's development, especially from episodes like S&D and Self Made Man? That just screams illogical, IMHO. Schmacky mentioned Cameron not being hardcore or w/e, but I don't think she was never supposed to be some badass from the get go. It's already been established that she isn't designed to fight other machines, so I think you also add another dimension to her character by mentioning that. It looks like Cameron has a much deeper purpose than just protecting John. Why would you send back a machine to protect your younger self if the machine you're sending back isn't designed for combat? There's just so many questions about Cameron right now, that killing her off would be a real killer to this show's audience. I agree with your respective posts, Terras and Hollow Crown.  People have complained that Sarah Connor wasn't the hardcore badass Sarah Connor of the movies. Well Cameron isn't necessarily the hardcore badass machine that Arnie was. But no-one have complained at Cameron for not being a badass, people was complaining about not having John-Cameron interaction... the terminator action is a plus. The interesting part here is Cameron's learning process and all the human-terminator interaction. That's the difference.  |
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 16:52:08 GMT -5
I do not believe Cameron will be replaced or any variation of. Nope but you know how Weaver was looking for that computer that cross against the light...? We know that Cameron would actively choose to be terminated than be captured, modified and re-written (slightly) to become the host for future Skynet? I suppose it would be pure irony that specifically Cameron, had become Skynet's 'prodigal problem child' then ends up becoming the outlet in which Skynet was conceived through. That being said, thats one thing I don't wish happening. Cameron's programing and personality would have to be lobotomized by Weaver, else risk a potential for escaping. Yet as t101 said, its those sequences of events and glitches thats passed which caused Cameron to arrive to the point she's at now. Fun little self defeating purpose there, by Weaver's capture ending up destroying what Weaver has been questing for the most. :edit: i'm still in the chatroom btw, looks like i missed someone in there while writing and reading this past hour... ugh... Remember the Dekker Tapes revealed one would die, one would betray John and one would leave John. I'd say Riley was the betrayer. Her relationship to John was a lie from the getgo. Had Jesse not accidentally killed her or Cameron ending up killing her is a moot point now as Cameron's still the pegged scapegoat as the plan was initially. Riley's death still betrays John in that respect. :edit addendum: I was also talking with RossBondReturns last night over aim. While JF says one will betray them. Well look back in retrospect, Ellison DID betray the Connors by digging up Cromartie's body and handing it over to Weaver. However, the Connors know Cromartie's body is gone, probably suspect Ellison but they can't finger him for sure. In the ComiCon Spoiler slip, we see John attacking Ellison in a fit of hatred and rage shouting "I'll KIll you!" ... Possibly John just found out about Cromartie resurrected with Ellison's help... Basically WE know about Ellison, but the Connor's don't. Or, Ellison has a hand in Cameron's capture... Its just JF's clever play on words, as he's exampled several times already. What JF says and hints is true, just not in the way we usually suspect. Cameron becoming irreversibly the enemy is another no no for me. I have quiet a few... Agreed. But no-one have complained at Cameron for not being a badass, people was complaining about not having John-Cameron interaction... the terminator action is a plus. The interesting part here is Cameron's learning process and all the human-terminator interaction. That's the difference. Most agreed. |
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 9, 2009 17:10:14 GMT -5
Normally I don't double post but argh, instant flood of activity, had to keep up!
MOD NOTE: Please don't double post at all. Please use the modify button to edit your previous post.
Thank you.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Mar 9, 2009 17:27:08 GMT -5
I do not believe Cameron will be replaced or any variation of. Nope but you know how Weaver was looking for that computer that cross against the light...? Again, I bet you that Weaver was talking about herself in that occasion, as a lone rebel terminator that "crossed against the light" by coming through time on her own to build a new version of Skynet. In that possible scenario, CW may team up with Cam but not because Cam was to become Skynet instead of JH, but to fight him once he's unplugged and out of of control. Anyway, what you said could make sense if we draw a connection between Weaver's phrase and what Derek told Sarah in Vick's Chip: "Maybe it's not the Turk that created Skynet, maybe it's her... Maybe it was her plan all along" - but I'd still rather prefer the first choice, though. |
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 9, 2009 18:41:45 GMT -5
Schmacky mentioned Cameron not being hardcore or w/e, but I don't think she was never supposed to be some badass from the get go. It's already been established that she isn't designed to fight other machines, so I think you also add another dimension to her character by mentioning that. It looks like Cameron has a much deeper purpose than just protecting John. Why would you send back a machine to protect your younger self if the machine you're sending back isn't designed for combat? There's just so many questions about Cameron right now, that killing her off would be a real killer to this show's audience. When I said she wasn't hardcore, I wasn't saying that was her mission. But for story purposes, for the audience.. she is. People have complained that Sarah Connor wasn't the hardcore badass Sarah Connor of the movies. Well Cameron isn't necessarily the hardcore badass machine that Arnie was. And she IS jacked up. I didn't say anything about character development and all that stuff.. but she is messed up. Her chip is jacked, she glitches, she forgets she's a machine, her hand is twitching, she didn't kill Riley when a S1 Cameron would have. Yes, it's more interesting for Cameron to have these issues to develop her character but it's also made her lose that "badass machine" to her. I didn't even say I would like for them to send a new Cameron into the past but that it's possible and wouldn't be utter crap because it's been done before with another Terminator. I don't think Cameron was ever intended to be a badass, though. If you really look at her, the model of Cameron comes off more unintentionally humerous, really. I think she was programmed to teach John the fundamental stuff as opposed to hardening him up to be a badass himself. Then with her chip glitch, I think she's lost sight as what to do and has started to develop her own way of learning. I think that glitch has given her character a lot more depth, to be honest. I just couldn't see Cameron being any other way right now. |
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Mar 9, 2009 19:10:30 GMT -5
When I said she wasn't hardcore, I wasn't saying that was her mission. But for story purposes, for the audience.. she is. People have complained that Sarah Connor wasn't the hardcore badass Sarah Connor of the movies. Well Cameron isn't necessarily the hardcore badass machine that Arnie was. And she IS jacked up. I didn't say anything about character development and all that stuff.. but she is messed up. Her chip is jacked, she glitches, she forgets she's a machine, her hand is twitching, she didn't kill Riley when a S1 Cameron would have. Yes, it's more interesting for Cameron to have these issues to develop her character but it's also made her lose that "badass machine" to her. I didn't even say I would like for them to send a new Cameron into the past but that it's possible and wouldn't be utter crap because it's been done before with another Terminator. I don't think Cameron was ever intended to be a badass, though. If you really look at her, the model of Cameron comes off more unintentionally humerous, really. I think she was programmed to teach John the fundamental stuff as opposed to hardening him up to be a badass himself. Then with her chip glitch, I think she's lost sight as what to do and has started to develop her own way of learning. I think that glitch has given her character a lot more depth, to be honest. I just couldn't see Cameron being any other way right now. Terminators by default are badass. It's in their very nature.  |
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 9, 2009 19:32:10 GMT -5
Fair enough. |
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