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Post by Derek Reese on Feb 29, 2008 15:21:46 GMT -5
Discuss his character here.
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Post by :: Gooz-C178 :: on Mar 2, 2008 20:03:18 GMT -5
I think that ellison is a bit boring and he will help sarah in her mission .. he look like a good man
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Post by tzigone on Mar 2, 2008 20:07:40 GMT -5
I think/hope he'll be more interesting once he's more accepting of the truth. He has been a bit dull late - a shame, really, since he was little more interesting (at least he had humor) in the original pilot. Unfortunately, his journey to finding out this is all true hasn't been the most fascinating. But hopefully seeing him handle this from the government end will be more interesting. Skynet is going to end up a missile defense system, and Ellison's not military, so I don't how he can help in tracking down info in that regard. But still, it might be more interesting to see him interact with the Connor crew (seeing them across the way and not shooting them does not count as interaction - I'm talking words exchanged).
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 2, 2008 21:19:48 GMT -5
I agree with you again, tzigone.
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Post by ReeseDN38416 on Mar 6, 2008 14:29:00 GMT -5
Unfortunately I agree with you guys. I didn't miss Ellison at all in the first half of the finale. He's boring.
If he had died in the finale it would have finished up his arc perfectly... The only other thing I can see is a sort of Silberman route. Oh this is getting me excited. A current resistance of believers loyal to Sarah Connor just because of the evidence they've seen before the war even occurs. So far we've got Ellison, Silberman, Charley... who else has seen the machines and lived to tell the tale?
That would be fun.
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 6, 2008 18:03:20 GMT -5
The thing is he's seen what a Terminator can do face-to-face. Yes, he could have died, but it wasn't in the cards. But it's not like he can turn around and turn say that Terminators are real. Although his team did believe him. He may end up like Sarah and Silberman if he does as such.
His next goal should be finding the Connor's and going from there. He's basically given them a chance to use further resources to track down Skynet.
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Post by allergygal on Mar 7, 2008 2:23:27 GMT -5
The thing is he's seen what a Terminator can do face-to-face. Yes, he could have died, but it wasn't in the cards. But it's not like he can turn around and turn say that Terminators are real. Although his team did believe him. He may end up like Sarah and Silberman if he does as such. His next goal should be finding the Connor's and going from there. He's basically given them a chance to use further resources to track down Skynet. I don't think his team knew anything about fakeLazlo being a robot until they were getting tossed off the balcony. On their way down they were probably thinking "you know, there's something a little robotic about that guuuuuuuuy!" Ellison's character is great, but I also find his scenes somewhat dull. It has nothing to do with the character or the actor; it's just the fact that he's still isolated from our central characters. They've dragged out his investigation a little too long for how much screen time he's gotten. Now that he feels sure Sarah is alive and finally understand about those robots she was always stalking about, he should make for a great help in gathering info on Skynet leads. You're absolutely right about him not being able to tell anyone at the FBI what he knows really happened at that motel or they'd stick him in a room next to Silberman over at Pescadero. And he knows that. so he'll just have to make up a story and keep the truth to himself.
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Post by Derek Reese on Mar 7, 2008 20:06:43 GMT -5
Valid points there. But Ellison did tell her a bit about it, even if she didn't believe him. Oh well...the group is in the past and he's the only man left standing.
Going in I can't say I had much respect for this character. Thought and felt the concept was a bit cliche but I think and feel that the last couple episodes have really given him more depth. Especially that confrontation with the Dr.
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Post by Derek Reese on Dec 27, 2008 23:57:31 GMT -5
With Ellison's ties to ZieraCorp and the truth finally in his face. What do you all believe his motivation is in regards to his current situation? What is it that he's truly seeking?
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Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 28, 2008 21:22:03 GMT -5
I think the guy is an idiot, but he's so blinded by his own guilt over leading the HRT team to their deaths that he'll do just about anything to get to the bottom of what it all means for him through his religious lens.
And that bodes ill for him. Sooner or later he's got to realize that he's being played by Weaver into assisting the creation of Skynet. That line he gave Cromartie, "I'll never do the Devil's work" is a major joke, since he's been doing it ever since. Just how much Cromartie knew about that is unclear.
And when he finds out how badly he's screwed up, I think his guilt will be even more overwhelming. He may well end up a suicide - possibly by throwing himself into harm's way at some point, such as attacking Weaver who will waste him in a heartbeat.
The really irritating part is how the Connors have apparently forgotten about Cromartie's body now, just as they've forgotten about "The Turk". Here was their SECOND major chance to find "The Turk" - by getting Ellison to admit he'd taken the body - and John blew it by not letting Cameron force the truth out of Ellison. And they haven't bothered to even follow him around to see if he knows something.
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Post by allergygal on Jan 8, 2009 15:48:39 GMT -5
The final scene between Sarah and Ellison in "Mr Ferguson is Ill Today" is a major turning point for Ellison. It seems to play to everyone as him wanting to help and Sarah slamming the door on him, but I don't see it that way at all. Before I get into my analysis of the scene, here's all the dialog from it:
SARAH: We'll attract less attention if we don't travel together.
ELLISON: You want me to leave. What's next?
SARAH: We'll come back down here, bring something with us to destroy it.
ELLISON: (about John) His name's going to be on an alert.
SARAH: He's got other names.
ELLISON: Then what?
SARAH: There is no 'then what'. Pretend I died again.
ELLISON: I lost a lot when you died the first time. My marriage, my career.
SARAH: That's a lot to you?
ELLISON: I suppose many people lost those things.
SARAH: You want answers.
ELLISON: I just want to know my role in all of this. What happens after this?
SARAH: This is it. There's nothing else behind the curtain. This is what I do, it's all I do. You already know why I do it. I'm sorry for what you lost, but I can't help you get any of it back.
When I watch that scene, I don't see a man eager to join the Connors in fighting robots. I see a man looking for meaning in his life and Sarah doesn't have the kind of answers he's looking for. They part ways and that's that. So where in this scene is everyone else getting that Ellison wanted to help and Sarah told him to get lost?
Is it because she wanted him to leave? She explained why and he didn't seem to take offense. It wasn't personal — it was a security measure. It might draw attention if they crossed the border with an FBI agent.
Is it because he asked "then what?" and she didn't give him a game plan? Beyond coming back to destroy the body later (which she told him), there was no specific game plan. He wasn't looking for specifics anyway, and Sarah realized that. Ellison was looking for larger answers about his involvement in this whole thing. "There is nothing else behind the curtain." To Sarah, there is no greater meaning to it all. She does what she does without questioning it because it's her job. Kyle Reese died so that she could live to do it. "This is what I do. It's all I do."
This is not the scene of a man who was scorned and turned away. It's the scene of a man seeking an understanding of a very bizarre situation and looking for a higher purpose. What's it all about? Why me? How do I fit into the bigger picture? In the context of his failed marriage and career, his spiritual beliefs, and his lonely discovery that crazy fugitive Sarah Connor was right, it's understandable. But he wasn't pushed away, he walked away.
Ellison didn't balk at leaving. Ellison never once said "how can I help?" Ellison never said "I'd like to join you." Ellison didn't ask why they had to destroy the body. AND HE NEVER ONCE MENTIONED CATHERINE WEAVER. He asked a few vague questions and when he didn't get the answers he was seeking, he left and decided to find them his own way.
[BTW, I stuck this discussion in the character thread instead of the Mr Ferguson thread because even though this is about a specific scene, I figured it would lead to talk of other scenes and Ellison's motivations in general.]
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cyadon
Major
A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Jan 8, 2009 16:00:21 GMT -5
I never got the feeling that Sarah was tossing him away or rejecting him, but telling him that there were no answers. All the way back in episode 2x01 she tells Cameron she's not a believer, so there's nothing there for her to give to Ellison, who is a believer.
Things are the way they are for her. For Ellison, he's searching trying to find the big plan in all this. I understand his need to search for those answers and Sarah being unable to answer them.
Some of his actions, otoh, still leave me scratching my head.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Jan 8, 2009 16:55:08 GMT -5
When I saw Mr. Ferguson and then I came online and read about how other people thought Sarah was being all bitchy to Ellison and shutting the door on him I didn't understand.
Ellison wasn't all gung-ho asking to join and help. He was just lost and wanted answers. But when we knew he took Cromartie's body and gave it to Weaver, I just didn't understand this character at all.
I still don't understand him. Yes, he's looking for answers and probably wants to know his role in all this but he's just not making any sense to me.
This might be more for the speculation thread but I remember Thomas Dekker saying how whoever was going to die would inadvertently cause J-Day. In another interview, I think he stated that the death everyone was talking about wasn't necessarily Cromartie's death. So, with all that, I think (like I did before Cromartie died) that Ellison will die and somehow he has caused J-Day or brought it closer with all this meddling.
I really hope though that the writers will explain why Ellison turned in Cromartie's body. What was the motivation for that? He KNOWS what these things do, he knows it's gonna cause the end of the world. Why did he give it to someone who wants to reverse engineer it and create them?? I just don't get it.
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Post by vicheron on Jan 8, 2009 17:32:06 GMT -5
Ellison probably doesn't actually trust Sarah. She is working with Derek and Cameron, and that gives Ellison reason to doubt her. He knows that Derek probably killed Andy Goode. He may suspect that Cameron killed Enrique and perhaps several other people. Plus he may still think that Sarah killed Miles Dyson.
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Post by allergygal on Jan 8, 2009 17:37:53 GMT -5
I really hope though that the writers will explain why Ellison turned in Cromartie's body. What was the motivation for that? He KNOWS what these things do, he knows it's gonna cause the end of the world. Why did he give it to someone who wants to reverse engineer it and create them?? I just don't get it. In Ellison's defense on that, he didn't know Catherine was intending to reverse engineer it. She'd told him that if he brought her a robot body, they'd take it apart together. I don't know the exact quote, but she said something like "I'm not sure what we'll find, but I guarantee you it won't be evil." But even not knowing Catherine's true intentions at the time, Ellison taking the body was direct interference in the Sarah's work and he knew it. So the way I see it, he stabbed Sarah in the back for the chance to find answers. He put his personal quest above her mission to stop robots and prevent the apocalypse. And now that he knows Weaver is a liar and wanted to actually make her own cyborg, not take one apart, it makes no sense to me that Ellison is sticking with her instead of trying desperately to find Sarah and warn her. We really have no indication, either, that Ellison has loftier goals than to try to prevent this one amoral cyborg from being an intentional killer. And even that was never planned. It's just what his involvement with Catherine snowballed into because of Sherman's death. Ellison is playing with fire and I don't see it ending well. I tend to think he's like the new Andy Goode — sort of what you were saying about causing judgement day. In another timeline, Andy created an AI mind that grew angry and couldn't be reassured. It was the cause of everything. And now here's Ellison with his hands all in it. Not good.
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