tom
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Post by tom on Nov 28, 2008 14:51:33 GMT -5
To get his mind off Cameron and make the mission more easy for Jesse? Or to intervene before John could leach onto Cameron for the next 20 years?
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 28, 2008 14:58:47 GMT -5
^^ Kind of a disrespectful way to treat your leader/saviour, dontcha think?
Not to mention pretty unethical - I think it's more likely Jesse lied about how she came to be in the past than there's a resistance fifth column made up of creeps.
Actually, we know she lied since she didn't tell Derek then or when he confronted her in "Strange Things" that 'oh, yeah, I also brought a hot young thing through time to soothe John's angst at losing his pet robot.'
Added to which, Riley's not entirely down with the program and doesn't have very friendly feelings towards Jesse (I'm going with Jesse being the bear in the "fish being eaten by bear" poster).
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 28, 2008 15:00:36 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, Riley's presence is probably the best contradiction of Jesse's story - Cully's-brother-the-bubble-tech-with-no-appreciation-of-operational-security might have sent Jesse back to stop Cameron but why would the resistance send a kid back in time to mess with John Connor's mind? Because John Connor in this timeline is younger. And approx. in 2007 he'd be Riley's age and probably the best age to be manipulated by a pretty girl.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Nov 28, 2008 15:02:13 GMT -5
The bubble tech guy by the very action of sending Jesse back on her own mission is on her side, so it's pretty much a given that he told her everything he knows. Assuming (my new favourite word) that's how Jesse and Riley got to the past... Now that I think about it, Riley's presence is probably the best contradiction of Jesse's story - Cully's-brother-the-bubble-tech-with-no-appreciation-of-operational-security might have sent Jesse back to stop Cameron but why would the resistance send a kid back in time to mess with John Connor's mind? Also, if Big Mouth the Bubble Tech sent Jesse back, why doesn't she know about Kyle? Why doesn't she at least ask Derek - who is in no way subtle about his devotion to his brother - where's Kyle? Don't forget that Kyle was sent back in Skynet's own facility before they blew it up so chances are that Mr. Big Mouth Bubble Tech never knew that Kyle went back to the past. Also, I agree with t101 that the Bloody Wall guy has something to do with how Jesse knows exactly where to go. She might even have been the one to have shot him. I think so anyway. And I'm gonna side with that Riley is not from the future at all but from the present and Jesse has somehow manipulated her to do as she pleases. Her outbursts about everyone dying and their skulls being bleached.. she doesn't have to be from the future to have an outburst like that. Just look at Sarah Connor.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 28, 2008 15:10:29 GMT -5
Don't forget that Kyle was sent back in Skynet's own facility before they blew it up so chances are that Mr. Big Mouth Bubble Tech never knew that Kyle went back to the past. Someone still had to run the tech...
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 28, 2008 15:10:42 GMT -5
I know where Riley is from. I've seen Ashley Miller say it on another forum. And this board needs spoiler tags... Someone still had to run the tech... Maybe Cameron did. I have a feeling she's instrumental to a lot of events in the future.
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tom
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Post by tom on Nov 28, 2008 15:21:31 GMT -5
I know where Riley is from. I've seen Ashley Miller say it on another forum. And this board needs spoiler tags... Someone still had to run the tech... Maybe Cameron did. I have a feeling she's instrumental to a lot of events in the future. I think that too, unless Jesse flicks the switch on her...
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Nov 28, 2008 15:24:39 GMT -5
I know where Riley is from. I've seen Ashley Miller say it on another forum. And this board needs spoiler tags... Maybe Cameron did. I have a feeling she's instrumental to a lot of events in the future. I think that too, unless Jesse flicks the switch on her... I always assumed it was John that flipped the switch for Kyle to be sent back. Didn't one of the guys in D&D say that they went in and only Connor came out?
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Post by allergygal on Nov 28, 2008 16:01:52 GMT -5
She might have known Derek went to 2007 to aid the Connors and followed after him? Possible. I always assumed that John personally sent Derek back (just like he'd sent Kyle back). But it could be that John had a trusted (oops) bubble tech operating the time machine when Derek went through. Even so, there's no way John would let on what the mission was. So at most, I could believe that same bubble tech gave Jesse and her cohorts the date that Derek went too and they all just assumed he'd gone through to help John. That still wouldn't explain her expecting to find Cameron in 2007. But maybe that didn't even matter. Maybe Jesse's plan wasn't so much to stop Cameron as to influence John (using Riley) so that whenever Cameron did arrive, John wouldn't really develop and kind of closeness with her. Except, he didn't send her back to 2007, did he? He sent her back to 1999. So... how long, exactly have Jesse and Riley been booting around the future, looking for John Connor and his pet machine? Exactly. Even if the bubble tech knew of Cameron's jump, he only could have known of her going to 1999, not 2007. And now that I think about it, it makes even less sense for Jesse to go to 2007 since a) she either had no way of knowing Cameron was there with John, or b) the bubble tech would have told her Cameron went to 1999, in which case jumping to 2007 would mean she'd be finding John 8 years after he'd potentially been with Cameron. Did Jesse think she'd be able to undo 8 years of influence? But Derek was sent back to 2007 so she might have followed that time period instead of when Cameron was sent back. We may know not know the real reason or whole truth of why Jesse's there yet, but it certainly seems to be about John and Cameron, not Derek. So following Derek only make sense if she knew Derek went to 2007 to meet up with John. I'm thinking the guy who did the writing on the wall may have something to do with it, he did know exactly where the Connors lived. Good point about the bloody future fighter. But again, I can't imagine John telling a bubble tech what someone's mission was. The bubble tech may have been operating the equipment, but all he'd know is the date, not why the soldier was going back. From everything we know of John, he trusts to no one in the future. Derek didn't seem to know he was going to be meeting up with John in 2007. He only knew he was going back to set up a safe house, gather intel and wait for more orders (unless there mission parameters that we still don't know about Derek). Assuming (my new favourite word) that's how Jesse and Riley got to the past... Now that I think about it, Riley's presence is probably the best contradiction of Jesse's story - Cully's-brother-the-bubble-tech-with-no-appreciation-of-operational-security might have sent Jesse back to stop Cameron but why would the resistance send a kid back in time to mess with John Connor's mind? Also, if Big Mouth the Bubble Tech sent Jesse back, why doesn't she know about Kyle? Why doesn't she at least ask Derek - who is in no way subtle about his devotion to his brother - where's Kyle? I think Riley's there to get John to bond with a human. If Jesse expected Cameron to be there in 2007, then Riley's purpose would be to come between John and Cameron. If they didn't expect Cameron to be there, then Riley's purpose would be to develop a relationship with John so he wouldn't bond with Cameron whenever she finally entered the scene. The bubble tech wouldn't know about Kyle time jumping. In D&D Derek's told that John and Kyle went deep into the Skynet facility and 3 days later John came out alone and had them blow the place. So Kyle got sent back personally by John through Skynet's time machine. The time machine that all the other resistance fighters have come through (including Derek) is either one that John built later or it's Skynet's machine that he had been dismantled and moved to a resistance bunker prior to blowing up the facility in Topanga. But yeah, you'd think Jesse would ask Derek what happened to Kyle. It could be that she, like everyone else thought Kyle was dead, though. Kind of a disrespectful way to treat your leader/saviour, dontcha think? Not to mention pretty unethical - I think it's more likely Jesse lied about how she came to be in the past than there's a resistance fifth column made up of creeps. Jesse's killed at leas 2 people since she's been in 2007 and she's holding back info from Derek while she sneaks around trying to manipulate John Connor. I think it's pretty clear Jesse and her cohorts are not respectful or ethical. Don't forget that Kyle was sent back in Skynet's own facility before they blew it up so chances are that Mr. Big Mouth Bubble Tech never knew that Kyle went back to the past. Someone still had to run the tech... John ran it.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 28, 2008 16:11:27 GMT -5
It was the bubble tech guy. Derek told Jesse the first time they met. In fact:
Jesse: "Cullie's brother, he's a bubble tech." Derek: "He is the same one..." Jesse: "Who sent you back. I know." (<< Isn't that curious?)
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Nov 28, 2008 16:12:35 GMT -5
I think Riley's there to get John to bond with a human. If Jesse expected Cameron to be there in 2007, then Riley's purpose would be to come between John and Cameron. If they didn't expect Cameron to be there, then Riley's purpose would be to develop a relationship with John so he wouldn't bond with Cameron whenever she finally entered the scene. The problem with Jesse's story is it presents two mutually exclusive premises: 1) John Connor is a freaky machine-loving recluse with no friends who needs to be saved from Cameron's ebil influence (her rant to Derek) 2) John Connor is saviour-leader of humanity who forges an effective resistance to a nigh-unstoppable numerically and technologically superior force through the force of his personal charisma alone (her speech to Jesse) I don't see how both can be true.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 28, 2008 17:17:55 GMT -5
Uh oh you just opened a very big can of worms you or I'll need to open a thread for. Time for the great time travel Paternity test.
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Post by allergygal on Nov 28, 2008 17:58:17 GMT -5
It was the bubble tech guy. Derek told Jesse the first time they met. In fact: Jesse: "Cullie's brother, he's a bubble tech." Derek: "He is the same one..." Jesse: "Who sent you back. I know." (<< Isn't that curious?) Ah yes. Thanks, I'd forgotten that. I think Riley's there to get John to bond with a human. If Jesse expected Cameron to be there in 2007, then Riley's purpose would be to come between John and Cameron. If they didn't expect Cameron to be there, then Riley's purpose would be to develop a relationship with John so he wouldn't bond with Cameron whenever she finally entered the scene. The problem with Jesse's story is it presents two mutually exclusive premises: 1) John Connor is a freaky machine-loving recluse with no friends who needs to be saved from Cameron's ebil influence (her rant to Derek) 2) John Connor is saviour-leader of humanity who forges an effective resistance to a nigh-unstoppable numerically and technologically superior force through the force of his personal charisma alone (her speech to Jesse) I don't see how both can be true. They're not mutually exclusive. John Connor is still the guy who gets humanity off it's "we're all gonna die" butts and starts them fighting back. He still organizes the resistance and leads an effective war against Skynet. Jesse says that John never talks to anyone but Cameron "anymore". I take that to mean that his isolation from the other soldiers has grown over time to the point that she thinks Cameron has too strong of an influence on his decisions. In other words, she thinks the great John Connor has begun to lead them down the wrong path after clearly leading them well for many years.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 28, 2008 18:24:12 GMT -5
I think, at least from what Jesse says, there is a group of people who made Cameron their scapegoat. More than a thought out strategic disagreement or understanding of John Connor's character and motives it's an act of bitterness, fear, and hatred. Namely for the use machines which did cause several tragedies.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 28, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -5
The jump from 1999 to 2007 may have always been part of the plan. It was rather convenient that Derek's team was sent to 2007 so they could get enough supplies to help the Connors after they arrived. Derek was not surprised that Sarah and John were 8 years younger than they should have been.
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