cyadon
Major
A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Nov 25, 2008 11:11:55 GMT -5
Seeing as she's becoming an ever more important part of the second season, I feel it's time to have a thread for her.
Talk about Jesse, resistance (?) fighter of the future, here.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Nov 25, 2008 13:04:42 GMT -5
She and Cameron share a wardrobe. She is clearly ebil.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 25, 2008 19:26:05 GMT -5
This is going to be a short discussion thread because if Jesse goes up against John and Cameron, she's a goner.
I predict Derek will kill her himself - if Cameron or John doesn't. Derek is going to be seriously PO'd when he finds that Jesse didn't tell him about Riley and even more PO'd if he finds out that Jesse wants to get rid of John Connor as leader of the Resistance altogether.
She's definitely not long for this world.
The impact of all this on Sarah, Derek, John and Cameron is going to be hard to gauge.
Sarah will be ambivalent about Riley turning out to be a plant. On the one hand, she'll feel vindicated that John should have ignored Riley. On the other hand, she'll feel hurt for John that he's been used again. She'll be pissed at Derek for lying to her again, and ambivalent about Cameron coming out on top with John over Riley.
Derek will be upset that he was part of a plot that could damage John, but also ambivalent about sacrificing Jesse to keep Cameron around. He's going to be in the doghouse with Sarah for lying to her about Jesse and to John for being involved with this stupid plot.
John will be enraged that he was used by Jesse, but is likely to forgive Riley if her involvement was mostly because of Jesse's manipulations and not her own. He's going to be pissed at Derek but will forgive him somewhat if Derek has to take down Jesse.
Cameron is going to come out on top completely. Jesse will end up dead, Derek in the dog house if not dead, Riley will be gone (unless John not only forgives her but lets her continue to hang around), and she will be able to use this to cement her relationship with John.
But Jesse is history. If she lasts past the next two episodes, I'll be surprised, unless her plot has something to do with the cliff hanger in episode 12. If so, we'll see her in the back nine - but not for longer than another episode.
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Post by furious980 on Nov 26, 2008 16:16:35 GMT -5
My take is, in the future John really does have Cameron model that he has confided in. That is why he sent one back to begin with. Either way, Jesse is apart of a group in the future that is over the top medal haters. Much like Derek’s character was when he first arrived.
Jesse has personally witnessed some of these machines turning and destroying entire bunkers of resistance fighters. So I do believe that she had her friends brother “the bubble Tech” send her back. She sent her self-back on her own personal mission.
In her mind, John Connor is the last best hope for humanity. She just feels that if he continues to keep these machines around that it will end up being the downfall of the resistance. I.E. the machines win.
Her mission is to prevent John from ever becoming attached to begin with. Get rid of the Cameron model now and maybe he will think twice before bringing them around in the future. Problem with that is, Cameron is not the machine that begins this mind set for John. It is actually Arnolds Model in the second movie.
In retrospect, Jesse is attempting to stop then inevitable.
As far as Riley goes, it sounded like she was from the future too. I guess Jesse brought her along as some one other than a machine that John could relay on and talk with.
If my assumptions are correct, I think Jesse would have been better off just coming up with some excuse about bringing Riley back to begin with. John may have felt even more comfortable talking to her had he known that Riley was already from the future.
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Post by sarah on Nov 26, 2008 22:09:51 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't realize that we didn't have a thread on Jesse already. lol Yes, it is about time! Last week's episode was convincing me that maybe her feelings for Derek are genuine (even tho she's "ebil" and only trouble). Now, the utter manipulation of Riley/Derek/John by her makes me discount her humanity again. For all I can tell, she could be a Gray or a cyborg. In other words, whatever is the evil-est.
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Post by chrisimo on Nov 27, 2008 2:07:10 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't realize that we didn't have a thread on Jesse already. lol Yes, it is about time! Last week's episode was convincing me that maybe her feelings for Derek are genuine (even tho she's "ebil" and only trouble). Now, the utter manipulation of Riley/Derek/John by her makes me discount her humanity again. For all I can tell, she could be a Gray or a cyborg. In other words, whatever is the evil-est. Hmm, I don't know about her being a gray. Or even a Cyborg. Regarding her manipulation I think it is at least more effective in getting Cameron away than Derek's direct approach. Both want Cameron gone, but Jesse's way seems more promising, so far. And both have their share of secrets. And if some faction of the resistance wants to send someone back to get John away from Cameron it would make sense to send someone who can manipulate people. And who is she really manipulating? The only one we can be sure she manipulates is John.
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Post by littleb on Nov 27, 2008 9:09:30 GMT -5
She and Cameron share a wardrobe. She is clearly ebil. Is it just a coincidence or is her hair getting bigger the more ebil she becomes? Cos some of her scenes this week, I'm guessing they had to go with a wide angle lens.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Nov 27, 2008 16:34:09 GMT -5
She and Cameron share a wardrobe. She is clearly ebil. Is it just a coincidence or is her hair getting bigger the more ebil she becomes? Cos some of her scenes this week, I'm guessing they had to go with a wide angle lens. And we got that shout-out to Cameron's interrogation of Allison in "Strange Things" as well. Clearly, Jesse is an ebil cyborg. Okay... I have no idea how you work the heavy sun-tanning regime into the "clearly Jesse is a cyborg" theory but so far this season we've seen: That Cameron was created to match a real girl (see also Vick & Ellison 2) That Cameron's "Allison" persona was capable of reacting to stimuli with an much large spectrum of emotional responses than Cameron uses (and more than Vick ergo Cameron is a more advanced model). That Cameron as Allison had no awareness of her cyborg nature until confronted by John Connor, at which point, her primary programming (kill John Connor) began to reassert itself. Skynet is now producing terminators of all shapes and sizes (see the pretzeloid terminator). That human beings worked for Skynet, teaching the machines to better understand and therefore better mimic human behaviour. This leads me to wonder if Skynet can now program a terminator that not only replaces an actual person but believes that it is the person its replacing until triggered by a specific criterion but while nevertheless carrying out its programming - kind of like a Manchurian Candidate for Robots. And Jesse and Cameron wore the same style and colours of clothing in "Complications" ergo Jesse is obviously a Scary Robot from the future. Like Derek said about Barbara and Vick - "You think you'd know?"
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Post by chrisimo on Nov 27, 2008 16:41:56 GMT -5
Like Derek said about Barbara and Vick - "You think you'd know?" But Barbara did know that something was wrong with her husband. She just didn't have the knowledge about Terminators. I think Vick would have been exposed in the future where people know about Terminators. And regarding the Manchurian Candidate thing, I think it would be necessary for Skynet to design Terminators that can't be detected by dogs as well, otherwise they wouldn't be much different in their infiltration capabilities (at least in the future, where dogs seem to be everywhere).
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Nov 27, 2008 16:56:35 GMT -5
Like Derek said about Barbara and Vick - "You think you'd know?" But Barbara did know that something was wrong with her husband. She just didn't have the knowledge about Terminators. I think Vick would have been exposed in the future where people know about Terminators. I agree but my point was a) that "Allison" appeared to be far more emotionally responsive than Vick and b) that it's Derek, who is from the future and replete with knowledge of a terminator's abilities and limitations, who heavily implies to Sarah that you wouldn't be able to tell a terminator replacement from the real thing. I believe the only dog we've actually seen on TSCC was in Carlos' gang house. And so far, we've seen none in the future!war scenes.
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Post by chrisimo on Nov 27, 2008 17:07:30 GMT -5
But Barbara did know that something was wrong with her husband. She just didn't have the knowledge about Terminators. I think Vick would have been exposed in the future where people know about Terminators. I agree but my point was a) that "Allison" appeared to be far more emotionally responsive than Vick and b) that it's Derek, who is from the future and replete with knowledge of a terminator's abilities and limitations, who heavily implies to Sarah that you wouldn't be able to tell a terminator replacement from the real thing. But was he really talking about humans in the future or was he merely trying to see things from Barbara's perspective? I got the impression that he meant to say:"If you were in her situation, would you notice?" I believe the only dog we've actually seen on TSCC was in Carlos' gang house. And so far, we've seen none in the future!war scenes. Ok, we haven't seen many. And in T1 we have only seen one in the future, I think. But to me it seems logical that dogs are bred like mad in the future, because they are a very reliable Terminator detector. They should be stationed at every entry point to a human bunker.
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Pugsley
Refugee
*Financial Supporter*
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 27, 2008 17:18:42 GMT -5
I'm still not sure what Jesse's plan is. Its not to kill John Connor because she's had plenty of opportunities to do that. If its to kill Cameron why hasn't she tried to do it? So maybe she is trying to discredit Cameron. John falls in love with Riley then Jesse manipulates Cameron into killing Riley. That might be enough to put John off Cameron and convince him machines can't be trusted.
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terrasj
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Rossbond Connor Crew
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Post by terrasj on Nov 27, 2008 23:19:21 GMT -5
And Jesse and Cameron wore the same style and colours of clothing in "Complications" ergo Jesse is obviously a Scary Robot from the future. Like Derek said about Barbara and Vick - "You think you'd know?" So Derek's been boinking a Metal!!!! From his hate of Metals, this must be the second time, and twice fooled ;D Oh, I just had to say it ;D ;D ;D *ducks and runs from the expected wave of wierded-outness soon to follow* If nobody's opposed or wierded out by that (I'm not), then theres a double standard for Cam goin on here... ..... Back to seriousness... If Jesse can seduce Derek so easily, scheme & mastermind Riley's involvement with John, I wonder if she's yet got a few trump cards hidden up her sleeve yet. Blackmail Derek or something when the time comes - a "If I'm going down, your going down with me Derek"... I don't think there'd be a doghouse big enough at the Connor's house for Derek outside. To make things real interesting, the big confrontation happens, Jesse & Derek, John and Cameron... Jesse's got some backup plan, but the plan backfires royally, instead brings the attention of a Terminator or two, so that it comes down to Jesse & Cam and the Terminators, Jesse ends up martyring herself with an explosive device by telling Cameron to pull an unconscious John & Derek to safety... -side variant - it ends up Jesse and Cam are encircled, fighting back to back to save their skins, ending up realizing they fight good as a pair... Twist number 2: confrontation Derek & Jesse, Cameron & John... Then a second Jesse shows up... The 2 Jesse's start arguing over who's the real one... Cameron states their both metals, and Derek freaks out ;D One more scenario - Jesse gets sneaky, befriends Sarah under a different alias, doesn't tell Derek. I wouldn't put it past Jesse to play it from both angles. It would also seem Jesse's as hot blooded as Derek is when it comes to sex. Also seems Jesse's enjoying herself in this present day, lots of novelties and luxuries ripe for the taking, all she has to do is go for it. (made good friends with the diamond buyer didn't she?) I don't doubt Derek's the only one she's seducing. Wonder if she's even Bi? Hmmm??? Just tossing up some ideas for a little variety...
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Post by littleb on Nov 28, 2008 9:18:26 GMT -5
This leads me to wonder if Skynet can now program a terminator that not only replaces an actual person but believes that it is the person its replacing until triggered by a specific criterion but while nevertheless carrying out its programming - kind of like a Manchurian Candidate for Robots. Sounds a little too Battlestar Galactica which might put the writers off from heading in that direction. I thought they were going to dabble in BSG similarities when AllisonTerminator mentioned that not all of the machines wanted war but I think it was just something she said to try and gain Allison's trust. That really would mess with Derek's head somewhat. Jesse seems mostly to wear towels... or underwear... or underwear under towels. If we start seeing lots of shots of Cameron coming out of the shower in her skimpies then I'll be totally convinced I think Jesse's human. Naughty. But human. I don't think she's really been seducing Derek so much as continuing a relationship they already had. He didn't seem to love her that much that he told her where he was going but I think we're assuming they had a previous relationship. She's definitely distracting him though, can't wait to see what Sarah has to say about it all especially when Derek's been ragging on her for being played and chasing phantoms.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Nov 28, 2008 10:42:08 GMT -5
I think Derek ends up killing her once he finds out she's been lying to him several times in a row. He's told her John's big secret and she's not exactly proven trustworthy.
I don't think she could be a machine, she's way too human and Skynet if it could get one of it's Terminators so close to John would kill him, period. It's not going to make even more elaborate plans to manipulate him when it can't even simply get John shot dead.
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