02X18 Today is the Day (Part 1)

[timstuff]

I personally don't mind finding out why Jesse is such a stone cold beotch. That's something I've been curious about for a while now. She went from trusting John Connor more than Derek did (in an alternate timeline), to thinking he'd gone off his rocker because of his pretty little Terminator pet/concubine/wife/whatever, to the point where she'd willingly raise up and kill off an innocent girl just to break John's Cameron habbit. I think that a bit of explanation is most certainly called for. I just hope that that's not all that the episode(s) are going to revolve around, though.

[VALIANT CHAMPION]

It's obvious that Derek and Jesse probably won't try to kill Cameron, although Derek will possibly come close to doing it. It appears that Jesse's plan is hoping John will do it. Namely because he has to be angry enough with Cameron so that in the future he will not trust to reprogram terminators.

I don't see how he can suspect Cameron killed Riley when she was in the building busy making her kill switch. Plus she was pretty frank and honest acting.

I suspect Jesse dumped Riley's body near the Connor home. Now that would cause John to question Cameron's story.

[jaquio]

basic csi will easily clear cameron. forensics will point to a dumped body, killed not in the way termies do, also a strong alibi for cam

[timstuff]

If Jesse or Derek simply wanted to bump off Cameron, there are ways they could do it. They've killed terminators before, and even though it'd be a huge risk, they could take out Cameron if they set up a good enough trap. The problem for Jesse though, is that the only thing killing Cameron outright would do is break John's heart. He'd be so broken up over having Cameron taken away from him that in the future, if anything, when he first finds Cameron in the future he'll keep her even closer and be even more protective of her.

No, Jesse's plan is far more diabolical than that. She wants John to lose faith in Cameron, and pull the plug on her himself, which is why Jesse needed so badly for Cameron to kill Riley in cold blood. Framing Cameron is a last ditch effort to salvage her plans. Cameron trusts John fully, even more than she trusts herself, and that's why I think John is going to show that he trusts her in return. That's exactly the reason why Jesse literally needed for John to see the blood on Cameron's hands. In the current path of events, Sarah and Derek will almost definitely believe Cameron is Riley's killer, but that's because by their own design, neither of them are anywhere near as close to Cammy as John is.

[nordwest]

I think that I now understand JF master plan for the back nine:

3 Sarah episodes

3 episodes dealing with malfunctioning (crazy) Cameron but not focused on a single character

the final 3 episodes fighting skynet with lot of action

I hope that I am wrong and that we will get closer to skynet already in the next two episodes. I would like to see a skynet connection in the future Jesse story. She might have been fooled by Skynet somehow. I hope that not too much money is wasted in expensive future Jesse scenes.

[Alexis]

Mar 7, 2009 13:13:11 GMT -5 timstuff said:

If Jesse or Derek simply wanted to bump off Cameron, there are ways they could do it. They've killed terminators before, and even though it'd be a huge risk, they could take out Cameron if they set up a good enough trap. The problem for Jesse though, is that the only thing killing Cameron outright would do is break John's heart. He'd be so broken up over having Cameron taken away from him that in the future, if anything, when he first finds Cameron in the future he'll keep her even closer and be even more protective of her.

No, Jesse's plan is far more diabolical than that. She wants John to lose faith in Cameron, and pull the plug on her himself, which is why Jesse needed so badly for Cameron to kill Riley in cold blood. Framing Cameron is a last ditch effort to salvage her plans. Cameron trusts John fully, even more than she trusts herself, and that's why I think John is going to show that he trusts her in return. That's exactly the reason why Jesse literally needed for John to see the blood on Cameron's hands. In the current path of events, Sarah and Derek will almost definitely believe Cameron is Riley's killer, but that's because by their own design, neither of them are anywhere near as close to Cammy as John is.

Couldn't agree more.

[aceplace57]

Mar 7, 2009 12:34:28 GMT -5 jaquio said:

basic csi will easily clear cameron. forensics will point to a dumped body, killed not in the way termies do, also a strong alibi for cam

That's true, if Sarah takes the time to obtain the report. Sarah is, uh impulsive to say the least. Her charging into that building in Earthlings is classic Sarah. She, never took a second to consider any innocents. The moment Sarah hears about Riley's death she'll pass judgment. John better keep that destruct locket well hidden from mama bear. ;D

[rossbondreturns]

What if the Watch Trigger...is not in fact wired to anything.

[aceplace57]

That'll upset mama bear even more. ;D

Seriously, I wonder how hard it is to get coroner's reports? I can see John using them to (eventually) convince Sarah of Cameron's innocence. The soft tissue wounds would not be consistent with terminator force blows.

Derek has a tough decision to make. It's not guaranteed that he'll turn on Jesse. The previews show her giving Derek a very convincing argument that her plan ultimately helps John and the resistance. Plus, Derek's hatred of Cameron is well known. Which way will Derek loyalties fall? His shower buddy or a woman that treats him with contempt? Dereks got a lot to think about. ;D

[Alexis]

Mar 8, 2009 17:00:40 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

What if the Watch Trigger...is not in fact wired to anything.

That would be interesting... Cameron testing John.

But I think it's not the case, though.

There are many dialogs setting the stage for the "Watch Trigger" plot device to be fully functional to the present storyline. For example:

- What Cam told Sarah in S&D: "If I ever go bad again, don't let him bring me back" - So, Cameron was already concerned about this possibility from the beginning.

- Self Made Man: The bathroom scene with Cameron talking about contemplating suicide as a possibility when feeling "something's wrong with you". Then, Cameron suggested that she felt like a time bomb, mirroring what Sarah said about herself in Automatic For The People, regarding the possibility of having Cancer.

"It's like a bomb, waiting to go off"- Such was Cameron's answer to Eric when he told her: "You have no clue, do you? You have no idea what is like to have something inside of you, something that's damaged"

So I think those dialogs were precisely aiming to build up a solid base to validate Cameron's decision in order to protect John. And I think it will work as formidable plot device to keep us on the edge of the sit every time we feel John [or someone else] is about to use the kill switch to destroy our beloved Cameron.

[rossbondreturns]

terminatornewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/the-kill-switch-a-different-angle/

I posted it in Ourselves Alone thread too.

[Alexis]

Mar 8, 2009 19:01:24 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

terminatornewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/the-kill-switch-a-different-angle/

I posted it in Ourselves Alone thread too.

Thanks for the link, Ross. Gotta admit it's a very interesting alternative.

[rossbondreturns]

Thanks.

And I am currently in the chat room by the way. Just keep forgetting to check it.

[VALIANT CHAMPION]

If nothing was wrong with Cameron than yes the fake kill switch theory makes sense.

In that scenario she has full control over her functions so that when John pushes the buttons all will be well and she could say to John that she faked everything to test him.

However we know that Cameron IS damaged and knows she is unreliable. Conducting a psychological exam on John isnt the best thing. Namely because it could endanger John. What if a situation occurred where instead of them shooting her with a 50 caliber John says "save your bullets! All I have to do is press this button!!*pressing* ooops!!"

Most of Cameron's misbehaviour, If you could call it that, usually centers around withholding information. Having said that compared to anyone else in the show she is actually relatively honest. The shock comes because she is a machine and we expect her to be Uncle Bob. However Uncle Bob wasn't entirely cooperative with little John. He disobeyed orders several times in favor of what he considered a better alternative.

In T3 we find 101 lying to Kate to get her into the vet truck despite her having command authority. Remember she asked 101 that if she told him where John was would he let her go. That sounds like a request to me. However 101 ignored her request.

One could say it was because she asked and didnt command. Later however at the gas station she tries to exit the back of the truck and demands for the T101 to let her go.

Compare to Derek who has repeatedly lied to Sarah and John, Riley, Jesse, Even the religiously sacred Ellison has lied about more important things than Cameron.

Who in the show hasn't lied to Cameron more than she has lied to them?

[terrasj]

Looks like its an equal toss up regarding the Kill Switch. theres been good points and arguments made about it, even Ross's theory.

If anyone watches that teaser on YouTube, go re-watch it a few times... its apparent fingers are going to be pointing over Riley's death. Looks like John's doing a valiant attempt at defending Cameron there, diffusing Sarah's accusations with "I don't know" and "we don't know that". However, it also looks like John is going to have some words with Cameron - Cameron's walking infront of the house, and then we see John also walking the opposite direction, coming towards her, and take a really good look at his face and body language as he walks.

In the ending scene of 2x17, John knew Cameron was in the garage all day, and came in to see what she's up to. He even asked then, if she did anything to Riley, and Cameron answered truthfully. So I still think John will believe Cameron's telling the truth when confronted about Riley this time around again. It just wouldn't be John if he didn't question Cameron himself, in private because he'd want to hear it from Cameron.