wb5
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Post by wb5 on Mar 14, 2009 13:31:04 GMT -5
We may be getting Weaver's backstory, here. I could see her being "hell" coming out of the box, and also having a message for John Connor.
Which still would beg the question why she was to be brought to Serrano Point. It seems quasi impossible to reprogram a liquid metal Terminator (there is no chip, only nanobots or something like that). Did those orders really come from Connor? In that case, something went wrong as it was a terible mistake to open the box (which may have held the T1001, if that's what it is, paralysed in some way, maybe by keeping it at a very low temperature).
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terrasj
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Rossbond Connor Crew
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Post by terrasj on Mar 14, 2009 21:32:34 GMT -5
But if it was so deadly I can't figure out how it had a message for John Connor. A dangerous machines purpose would have been to kill John Connor wouldn't it? Thats what you call a Trojan Horse, in which the Greeks built a wooden large scale horse as a peace offering to the city of Troy, since the Trojan walls were impregnable, the Greeks stuffed the horse with their warriors. Once inside the Trojan walls, and well past midnight of the early morning hours, the Greek warriors descended from the horse, and staged a siege surprise attack from within the city. Hence the term "Trojan Horse". ( Wiki Entry: Trojan Horse) Now, where I'm going with this is: Ok, so perhaps there might've been a rogue faction of Metals, and somehow there was a mole in the faction, reports to Skynet. Skynet sends in its forces, wipes out and replaces the Special Delivery party with its own - a T600 metal, and a pair of Endo's (888's?) to guard the box which contains a Liquid Metal. Now as far as Future!John Connor knew, the rogue faction was true and the parcel pickup authentic. As far as the Sub landing team knew, the deal's also authentic. The endos are still guarding the container to make it look authentic, and the guy leaves his weapon behind and raises his arms open handedly as a sign and show of peaceful intent and good faith. Since everything went according to plan, box is carried back aboard the sub and standing orders were for the box to be delivered back to John Connor - i'm suspecting labeled as "For Connor's Eyes Only". Except the sub crew disobeys that order, opens the box themselves to snoop, and find out they've unleashed holy-terror. Now, if and had the crew followed orders, deliver the box directly to John Connor, that'd have been a perfectly executed Trojan Horse by SkyNet, with a high probability of killing John Connor, and any secondary objectives like command staff in the bunker, reveal and transmit co-ordinates of bunker for an awaiting SkyNet strike force. It would have been the perfect plan masterminded by SkyNet, Kill John Connor, wipe out his bunker, and severely demoralizing any and all world-wide Resistance & Tech-Com fighters and members. Even the non-combatant surviving civilians would be demoralized. Score 1 big kahuna point for SkyNet. SkyNet might have even achieved a 2-for-1, helping the Resistance and Tech-Com distrust all and any friendly metals, and rogue metal factions, so those would gt scrapped and dismantled. That'd be doing a favor for SkyNet not having to waste metal fighting its own subverted creations. SkyNet's already written them off, but it'd still be a plus. I'm willing to bet Captain Queeg is authentic. And apart from Commander Jesse who discovered they're 300 miles off course, and wasn't put 'in the know' for new top secret orders, the rest of the crew seem to think highly of their metal captain, as one crewman pointed out - they're always kept on perfect schedual. However, that'd be one heck of a deep cover mission if Queeg was a SkyNet operative metal agent, even possibly having replaced the original Metal Queeg (as Cromartie disabled Ellison's double). And then it would also be that the whole Kraken attack and AHK's dropping depth charges was a very convincing attack and escape ploy. No worries, its probably why I sometimes go back and edit a few to several times after I've posted.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Mar 14, 2009 22:02:32 GMT -5
This post is entirely based around the facts that the Metal Faction exists and Want Peace with The Resistance. John KNOWS this and this BOX is going to initiate a agreement between Resistance and Metal Faction.
The Metal Faction that wants a peace treaty with The Resistance send the box. The BOX contains a messenger in the form of some kind of Machine. This MACHINE is programmed to be an EMISSARY of PEACE to Connor and The Resistance ONLY IF Connor opens it correctly.
However Jesse and the crew of the Jimmy Carter get far too interested and want to know what's in PANDORA'S BOX.
So THEY open it INCORRECTLY this triggers something in the programming of the item delivering the message to change.
Instead of the METAL FACTION teaming up with the Humans. Since JOHN didn't open it correctly it became a message of Destruction.
That Human and Metal would not fight together EVER.
Just a thought.
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Post by VALIANT CHAMPION on Mar 15, 2009 0:00:24 GMT -5
What I meant was after whatever in the box (possible t1k) comes out and does its damage that it then says it has a message for Jesse to give to John Connor.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Mar 15, 2009 0:23:17 GMT -5
What I meant was after whatever in the box (possible t1k) comes out and does its damage that it then says it has a message for Jesse to give to John Connor. What would be the point of that? why not then just kill or subdue the crew, pilot the submarine to the nearest skynet harbour to offload the prisoners... It would be a one way street, kill some crew, then give a message to pass to John Connor... its life would be forfeit, and being a T1k I don't think SkyNet would spend those so loosely. Then, or at the very least taken prisoner if it didn't end up killing crewmen as it went for an escape hatch or to the CIC to take control of the sub... Pose as one of the crew, possible only surviving crew member left, spin a horrific tale about the captain gone rogue and slaughtered everybody, and try to make its way to Connor? Somehow Jesse survives, to tell the grizzly tale... Guess thats yet one more possible angle...
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Post by windowseat on Mar 15, 2009 1:45:27 GMT -5
"Whatever it is has to be either metal or human because it had a message."
But couldn't Jesse just be using a figure of speech, not speaking about a literal "message"? Having a message for someone in the idiomatic sense suggests you want to influence or even pressure them to... "get the message."
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wb5
Private
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Post by wb5 on Mar 15, 2009 7:37:35 GMT -5
It could of course be a message in the vein of "we'll put your head on a pike, Connor", with Jesse being left alive purely to spread demoralising tales of what happened on the sub. Skynet could do this both to show its strength, and maybe it even hoped Jesse would be turned againt reprogrammed metal, as seemingly happened in the end.
Regarding the latter, it will be interesting to see if "Captain Queeg" will be a victim along with the rest of the crew, or not.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 15, 2009 15:53:54 GMT -5
If there is a rogue Terminator faction, then I hope that it was started by future John. The idea that Terminators can break free of Skynet's control is a bit iffy. I think it's more likely that a rogue faction was created when future John sent some reprogrammed Terminators to infiltrate Skynet's forces and they broke free of his control.
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Post by VALIANT CHAMPION on Mar 15, 2009 15:55:28 GMT -5
Maybe Jesse is telling Cameron that there was a message so she could get past Cameron to see John personally.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Mar 15, 2009 16:27:32 GMT -5
If there is a rogue Terminator faction, then I hope that it was started by future John. The idea that Terminators can break free of Skynet's control is a bit iffy. I think it's more likely that a rogue faction was created when future John sent some reprogrammed Terminators to infiltrate Skynet's forces and they broke free of his control. Not anymore iffy than Skynet breaking away from humans.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 15, 2009 16:38:45 GMT -5
If there is a rogue Terminator faction, then I hope that it was started by future John. The idea that Terminators can break free of Skynet's control is a bit iffy. I think it's more likely that a rogue faction was created when future John sent some reprogrammed Terminators to infiltrate Skynet's forces and they broke free of his control. Not anymore iffy than Skynet breaking away from humans. It's a completely different scenario. The people who created Skynet had no idea what they were dealing with, they had no real contingencies for that situation. Skynet knows exactly what it's dealing with since it turned on its creators. The fact that Skynet has sent back Terminators back in time for non-essential missions, far away from its influence, shows that its Terminators are going to be true to their original programming.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Mar 15, 2009 16:56:29 GMT -5
It's a completely different scenario. The people who created Skynet had no idea what they were dealing with, they had no real contingencies for that situation. Skynet knows exactly what it's dealing with since it turned on its creators. The fact that Skynet has sent back Terminators back in time for non-essential missions, far away from its influence, shows that its Terminators are going to be true to their original programming. Nothing in the universe is certain.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 15, 2009 17:31:17 GMT -5
It's a completely different scenario. The people who created Skynet had no idea what they were dealing with, they had no real contingencies for that situation. Skynet knows exactly what it's dealing with since it turned on its creators. The fact that Skynet has sent back Terminators back in time for non-essential missions, far away from its influence, shows that its Terminators are going to be true to their original programming. Nothing in the universe is certain. And Skynet could actually be controlled by a malevolent alien invader so what's your point? We're dealing with what has already been shown in the movies and TSCC. We have never seen a Skynet controlled Terminator go against its programming. The Terminator in T1 suffered way more damage than Cameron and his programming wasn't corrupted. The T-1000 was frozen by liquid nitrogen and began glitching but it still continued its mission. Cromartie had his head blown off and he continued his mission. Stark was around for over 80 years and all he did was prepare for his mission. The only Terminators that have gone against their programming are the ones reprogrammed by the Resistance.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis on Mar 15, 2009 21:17:42 GMT -5
Now, where I'm going with this is: Ok, so perhaps there might've been a rogue faction of Metals, and somehow there was a mole in the faction, reports to Skynet. Skynet sends in its forces, wipes out and replaces the Special Delivery party with its own - a T600 metal, and a pair of Endo's (888's?) to guard the box which contains a Liquid Metal. Now as far as Future!John Connor knew, the rogue faction was true and the parcel pickup authentic. As far as the Sub landing team knew, the deal's also authentic. The endos are still guarding the container to make it look authentic, and the guy leaves his weapon behind and raises his arms open handedly as a sign and show of peaceful intent and good faith. Since everything went according to plan, box is carried back aboard the sub and standing orders were for the box to be delivered back to John Connor - i'm suspecting labeled as "For Connor's Eyes Only". Except the sub crew disobeys that order, opens the box themselves to snoop, and find out they've unleashed holy-terror. Now, if and had the crew followed orders, deliver the box directly to John Connor, that'd have been a perfectly executed Trojan Horse by SkyNet, with a high probability of killing John Connor, and any secondary objectives like command staff in the bunker, reveal and transmit co-ordinates of bunker for an awaiting SkyNet strike force. It would have been the perfect plan masterminded by SkyNet, Kill John Connor, wipe out his bunker, and severely demoralizing any and all world-wide Resistance & Tech-Com fighters and members. Even the non-combatant surviving civilians would be demoralized. Score 1 big kahuna point for SkyNet. SkyNet might have even achieved a 2-for-1, helping the Resistance and Tech-Com distrust all and any friendly metals, and rogue metal factions, so those would gt scrapped and dismantled. That'd be doing a favor for SkyNet not having to waste metal fighting its own subverted creations. SkyNet's already written them off, but it'd still be a plus. Very good theory, Terras. Karma! I also think it's quite possible that we'll be having a Trojan Horse stratagem there and, as you already know since we've been talking it through, I'm all with the Rogue T-faction theory, I'd put all my money on it. So, presumably, whatever was delivered in that box, might perfectly have been replaced and become a real Pandora's Box meant for John Connor to be killed off but eventually opened by curious Jesse, confirming the old saying: "The curiosity killed the cat". ;D
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Post by VALIANT CHAMPION on Mar 15, 2009 22:36:50 GMT -5
What if the box contains the upper torso of Cameron as depicted on the many of season ones promotional banners. Unlikely but I am just throwing up some out of the box ideas.
We do know that the newly constructed Cameron terminator from Allison wanted to meet John.
I don't think Jesse will be there when the box opens. I think it is the Sonar guy that opens it. He seems awfully curious in the preview when asking Jesse what's in it. At the time she looks like an obedient soldier. I don't think she would disobey orders at that time.
Which more than likely its a T1k as you can hear the metal sound in the preview. Unless that is the sound of Catherine Weaver killling Elliston and they dubbed it in an off place to fool us.
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