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Post by hobs202 on Oct 21, 2008 23:17:27 GMT -5
This is precisely why these clowns need to stop pretending to be some sort of "normal" people and GO UNDERGROUND FOR REAL. They need a BASE, they need some SERIOUS security instead of just a freakin' alarm system (a lot of good that does against a Terminator who just smashes his way into the place!), they need protective vests, they need medical assistance (Charley), they need more money, more hardware, more intel, more of everything - especially more ATTITUDE. Meanwhile, John is staggering around suspected of being a suicide case, Sarah is useless at dealing with it, Derek is a PREVIOUS suicide case, and we've got a "rogue Resistance fighter" who's obviously been doing surveillance on the Connors and lying to Derek's face while seducing him with pillow talk. This is turning into a soap opera. I'm not sure I can take any more incompetence from this crowd. At least Cromartie has some FOCUS on his mission! Dude, it's a fictional TV show. Calm down already. |
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Post by allergygal on Oct 22, 2008 0:10:05 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that the government thinks that Sarah, John, and Cameron are dead. I don't know if Derek is being hunted by the police since they don't have anything on him. Derek is still a fugitive, wanted on suspicion for Andy Goode's murder. Whether or not they'd have enough evidence to convict him, who knows (we don't even know if he had the gun on him when he was arrested). But there's no reason to believe the police would have dropped their interest in a murder suspect who broke out of custody and fled. Yeah, Sarah and John Connor are still officially considered dead as far as law enforcement is concerned. Ellison is the only one at the FBI who knows Sarah is alive and he's not working for them anymore. But they break the law all the time and there are fingerprints on file, so they still have to be extra careful about the police. Which reminds me... It bothered me when Sarah didn't wipe off the door handle when she found Andy Goode's body. That handle so would have been dusted during the crime scene investigation. Maybe there wouldn't have been a usable print, but she should have thought to wipe it, even in haste. And that's not the only time she or John have left prints at the scene of a crime. *sssshhh* |
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Post by richardstevenhack on Oct 22, 2008 4:49:34 GMT -5
I acknowledge the fact that this isn't a study in criminology or counter-terrorism - it's a sci-fi TV show. And I acknowledge that the writers assume - correctly - that ninety nine percent of the audience aren't going to care about all that.
But the fact is that you can use these sorts of considerations to up the ante in the show - to provide more realism which leads to more tense drama and more intensity. That's my point.
If the show actually took the time to show the Connors pursuing their mission with more intense consideration of the real risks as well as the sci-fi risks - instead of Derek hanging out in the park with his hot dogs - the show would be more interesting and more believable.
Frankly I think the writers are taking the easy way out on some of these plot elements. I mean, they drop a future Resistance fighter in just to let him conveniently make a list of every episode in the near future that the Connors can follow every week. Nice - but lazy.
It would have been more interesting to see the Connors do what Ellison did - follow up on the nuclear reactor, discern the hand of Skynet and trace it back to Weaver - rather than having them pointed directly to the same psychologist's office as Weaver's kid. It works - but it's lazy.
I mean, if that guy knew the importance of Weaver's psychologist, why didn't he know about Weaver and point directly at her? Obviously to heighten the suspense of when the Connors will find out about Weaver. It works - but it's lazy. Worse, it starts to crack the bounds of believability.
Maybe I just prefer my writers to deal with real world issues rather than James Bond world plots. Not that I don't like James Bond movies.
As an example of difficulty in suspension of disbelief, consider the first Pierce Brosnan Bond movie. He deliberately follows a plane over a cliff, sky dives down to the plane, enters it, starts it and flies it out of the canyon. Now if you were left with no option but to do that, i.e., you'd already gone over the cliff and saw the plane, you might try that. But nobody would DELIBERATELY do that!
That scene was on a par with Bruce Willis floundering around on the back of a Harrier jump jet during "Live Free and Die Hard". Fun - but not believable even a little bit. And that hurts the movie.
The problem is that if you get lazy or crazy like that, sooner or later you end up being a caricature of yourself rather than being taken seriously.
And on a TV show, that means the phrase "jumped the shark" - which results in low ratings and cancellations.
They made a big deal, both in T-2 and in the series, of claiming that Sarah Connor is John's "teacher", that she knows a lot about combat and war, that she is, as Cameron put it in episode two last season, "the best fighter he knows".
Well, I'm not seeing it - except in certain instances - such as her going back and being prepared to take out Enrique in that same episode. Overall though, I'm seeing an effort to make the show some kind of cross between "24" and "The Waltons" or something. I'd rather see it a cross between "Terminator" and "24".
Don't get me wrong - they do a really good job with this show in general. The acting, the dialog, the directing - all top notch. But as John Travolta said in "Swordfish": "They didn't push the envelope!" As he also said, "Realism! Realism - not a pervasive element in modern American cinematic vision."
I just think the story development is a bit slow and too many corners are cut on the technical accuracy. Which is odd, because one of the BTS videos made a point of how the Visual Effects Supervisor (I forget his name)practically approaches all his gadgets and Terminators like an engineer, with a heavy emphasis on physical realism.
I'd just like to see them take that approach with the rest of the circumstances surrounding the Connors. Run the scripts past some technical consultants on police procedure and criminal behavior and the like. They must do some of that already - just use it to enhance the story and the characterizations.
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Ace
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Post by Ace on Oct 22, 2008 9:35:32 GMT -5
Yeah, well, Osama bin Laden doesn't seem to be having that problem. The problem with that statement is that Osama bin Laden doesn't live in America. He lives in a cave somewhere along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Which is some of the toughest terrain in the world. There's a reason we can't find him. Los Angeles, doesn't quite have the same terrain features. Besides Osama lives openly in a place where people support him. The same can not be said for the Connors... Ace |
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cyadon
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Post by cyadon on Oct 22, 2008 10:03:53 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: LET'S REFRAIN FROM THE REFERENCES TO RL FUGITIVES AND TERRORISTS. THE DISCUSSION HAS REMAINED OK, FOR NOW, BUT I'D LIKE TO MAKE SURE IT DOES NOT GET OFF TRACK. LET'S KEEP FOCUSED ON THE TOPIC AT HAND AND THAT'S EPISODE 2x07 "BROTHERS OF NABLUS".
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Post by ga5speed02 on Oct 22, 2008 12:47:27 GMT -5
Well I dont know where you all get your spoiler pics from but they are cool. After seeing the pics and watching the trailer for this upcoming episode (wow I wish I could dis-invent Baseball,and Im from Philly so you'd think Id be happy but Im not lol. I loath that sport) Im just worried something might happen to that Chevelle Ellesion is driving. Looks to be a 1971. I could be mistaken.
In the pic with Cromartie and Jody, could it be possible that the person Cromartie took on was Jody's real father? I mean he was an out of work low budget film actor. Could have been hard on Jody as a kid which is why she is screwed up. Or he could be using her to get to John. Only because he may have saw Cameron with Jody and may know Cameron is Johns 'sister'
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Post by vicheron on Oct 22, 2008 14:05:43 GMT -5
I acknowledge the fact that this isn't a study in criminology or counter-terrorism - it's a sci-fi TV show. And I acknowledge that the writers assume - correctly - that ninety nine percent of the audience aren't going to care about all that. But the fact is that you can use these sorts of considerations to up the ante in the show - to provide more realism which leads to more tense drama and more intensity. That's my point. If the show actually took the time to show the Connors pursuing their mission with more intense consideration of the real risks as well as the sci-fi risks - instead of Derek hanging out in the park with his hot dogs - the show would be more interesting and more believable. The whole "nobody is safe" idea has already been established. It is assumed that the Connors do take the risks into consideration just as it is assumed that they eat, sleep, exercise, and shower. The various precautions they take to avoid those risks are mundane tasks, so they merit no mention unless it pertains to the plot just as their meals do not need to be shown unless it advances the plot. The problem is that the Connors couldn't have made those connections by themselves. If the Resistance fighter hadn't told them about Greenway, they wouldn't have gone to the nuclear plant. If Marty's name wasn't on the wall, they wouldn't have noticed the murder of the first Martin Beddell. There's no way that they could have known about the psychologist. If Kyle Reese knew that there was a Terminator hunting Sarah then why did he wait until the last possible second to intervene? That scene in T1 is exactly like the examples you gave. |
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Post by taurus on Oct 22, 2008 18:27:36 GMT -5
cromartie is going to die
no doubt
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Oct 22, 2008 18:47:30 GMT -5
Die with Terminators is a relative term.
When I saw the interview with Josh on the TV Guide channel there was no relatively about it. He said the character would die and stay dead. It also sounded like a human character. And lest we forget the person who dies if it happens in this episode must in it's own way bring about Judgment Day.
There's been no hint in Cromartie about that.
Cameron on the other hand.
Sarah...Derek or John...all are big possibilities.
Now IF The Turk / Skynet has eyesand the T-1001 iskilled in front of it...somehow...then that would work too.
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traitorsgate
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Post by traitorsgate on Oct 22, 2008 19:44:45 GMT -5
Well as it's now been shown that the Producers are willing to lie, (re: Who Killed Sarkissian?) I trust everyone from here on in will treat anything said by the Producers with a grain of salt. As such this whole who dies business could yet be just another Red Herring.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Oct 22, 2008 20:30:09 GMT -5
Um...I don't remember the Producers saying anything about who killed Sarkissian.
The screenwriters laid groundwork that could've gone both ways easily.
But if you're really paying attention it's obvious from the look Sarah gives to John just before Cameron kicks the door open in S and D...that no one other than John could've done the deed.
And I really really doubt that there's any red herring specially after the last trailer.
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joe
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Post by joe on Oct 23, 2008 2:30:13 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: Fox bashing and triple posting is not acceptable on these forums. Do not continue to do so.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Oct 23, 2008 3:18:10 GMT -5
What makes you think it's out of order? And if Fox really wanted it to fail why did they order a full season with less than optimal ratings?
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traitorsgate
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Post by traitorsgate on Oct 23, 2008 3:18:35 GMT -5
If FOX genuinely didn't want TSCC to succeed they wouldn't have ordered the back nine episodes of season 2, in fact they probably wouldn't have signed off on the second season period if they didn't think the show could could work. Quite frankly this constant moaning about FOX screwing over shows is just getting monotonous and is without any real substance other than Fanboy bitchfests. Firefly tanked because it was a quirky Sc-Fi show that would have never been more than a niche show at best, combined with it's production costs it was inevitable that the network execs put a bullet to it. The order in which Firefly was shown had little effect on the show as each episode was for the most part a standalone story, much the same can be said for the second season of TSCC as the producers have consciously made each episode more self contained unlike the first series. MOD EDIT: Sorry, but I snipped the quote of the deleted post. I'm going to ask that folks don't feed the trolls until we get them stuffed back under the bridge where they belong. |
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Post by ga5speed02 on Oct 23, 2008 8:56:17 GMT -5
If FOX genuinely didn't want TSCC to succeed they wouldn't have ordered the back nine episodes of season 2, in fact they probably wouldn't have signed off on the second season period if they didn't think the show could could work. Quite frankly this constant moaning about FOX screwing over shows is just getting monotonous and is without any real substance other than Fanboy bitchfests. Firefly tanked because it was a quirky Sc-Fi show that would have never been more than a niche show at best, combined with it's production costs it was inevitable that the network execs put a bullet to it. The order in which Firefly was shown had little effect on the show as each episode was for the most part a standalone story, much the same can be said for the second season of TSCC as the producers have consciously made each episode more self contained unlike the first series. MOD EDIT: Sorry, but I snipped the quote of the deleted post. I'm going to ask that folks don't feed the trolls until we get them stuffed back under the bridge where they belong.good post. 'fanboy' is a great word and a funny modedit. lol look i dont know anything about producing or anything like that, but i do have some common sense. if they wanted it to fail, why order more episodes?  i hope this show stays alive and kicking TTSCC FTW |
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