02x08 Mr Ferguson is Ill Today

[rossbondreturns]

Nov 11, 2008 8:44:30 GMT -5 aceplace57 said:

I was surprised that Sarah was so rude to Ellison. He's seen enough now that he knows about the danger of Terminators. I'm puzzled why Sarah didn't explain about Skynet and the efforts to stop it. There's no security issues involved. Skynet is already very much aware that Sarah is working to stop its development.

Sarah's hostile attitude did nothing except drive Ellison further towards Catherine Weaver's plans. He'll probably become convinced that she's working to stop the robots (Ellison doesn't know about Skynet yet). Ellison is a trained investigator and he certainly saved John and Sarah from Cromartie. Sarah practically told him to go F himself. Meanwhile, Weaver is constantly telling Ellison that he's important and that she needs him.

I agree with other posters that it's more and more difficult to accept the idea that Sarah, John and Cameron will magically stop Skynet all by themselves. Some sort of organization has to be built. There's many models that can be studied and used. The French Resistance network is one of the better known. Small cells of fighters that work independently. They get orders through message drops. They don't know the names of fighters or leaders in other cells. Read any decent espionage book. Some of the older authors like Ian Flemming and John le Carré were OSS or MI6 during WWII. John le Carré is by far one of the most detailed and accurate cold war writers.

It's time the show takes the next step. They have to start recruiting people and building an organization. The Lone Ranger approach isn't believable and it's quickly becoming tiresome. I want to see less gunfights & explosions and more espionage and maybe then they'll have a chance at stopping Skynet. Killing a Cyborg every other week won't keep fans interested for very long. Borrow a few pages from Robert Ludlum's books.

Yes. Yes A million time yes.

In fact Sarah's snub of Ellison was perhaps the dumbest thing anyone did in the entire episode.

Hello...Sarah...He not only SAVED YOU and JOHN and RILEY from the Rampaging Cromartie at the Police Station. But he became the Sacrificial Lamb during the shootout at the Church.

The dude deserves way WAY more than a-

frak You there's nothing else behind the curtain, get outta here there's nothing more for you speech.

And I must note although this is the first MAJOR character that she's stupidly snubbed verbally. It is the second total...yes I still remember her ruining Charlie's life by trying to get to John instead of trusting her plans with Cameron back in The Mousetrap. (Stop the van at least let him stabilize his wife before you take off since you have NO chance of making it to John in time to help).

Each of these moves is driving nails into Team Connor chances.

Good luck getting medical help off the map.

Good luck coming back and finding Cromarties body.

Good luck saving the world when you keep shhoting yourself in the foot.

Without this inane crap the episode would have been 10 out of 10.

With it....it drops to an 8 along with my opinion of Sarah Connors character and thought process.

[ga5speed02]

wow read the last 3 pages. it was amazing.

i was wondering, when ellison was in the chuch during the shoot out, did he get a gun? and also how was he not hit in the cross fire?

[chrisimo]

Nov 11, 2008 13:34:49 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

Yes. Yes A million time yes.

In fact Sarah's snub of Ellison was perhaps the dumbest thing anyone did in the entire episode.

Hello...Sarah...He not only SAVED YOU and JOHN and RILEY from the Rampaging Cromartie at the Police Station. But he became the Sacrificial Lamb during the shootout at the Church.

The dude deserves way WAY more than a-

I think her breakdown at the end showed that she isn't much into rational thoughts at the moment, as John would say .

[rossbondreturns]

Nov 11, 2008 13:43:04 GMT -5 chrisimo said:

Nov 11, 2008 13:34:49 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

Yes. Yes A million time yes.

In fact Sarah's snub of Ellison was perhaps the dumbest thing anyone did in the entire episode.

Hello...Sarah...He not only SAVED YOU and JOHN and RILEY from the Rampaging Cromartie at the Police Station. But he became the Sacrificial Lamb during the shootout at the Church.

The dude deserves way WAY more than a-

I think her breakdown at the end showed that she isn't much into rational thoughts at the moment, as John would say .

Yes but one of these irrational thoughts needs to come back and seriously effect Team Connor.

Sarah WAS responsible for last nights issues.

But CW really needs to get Cromarties Body.

That would help Sarah to get a bit more focused.

And yup that dummy...that dummy tells us all we need to Know Cromartie is not gonna stay dead forever.

Hell from the teaser for next weeks episode we're already getting some more footage of him. Unless I was seeing him where he wasn't.

[t101]

I think Sarah Connor is perfectly in character. When did she ever trust anyone?

[chrisimo]

Nov 11, 2008 13:56:12 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

Yes but one of these irrational thoughts needs to come back and seriously effect Team Connor.

Sarah WAS responsible for last nights issues.

But CW really needs to get Cromarties Body.

Yes, and if Ellison tells Weaver about Cromartie and she gets his body that may actually bring the Connors back on the trail of the Turk.

[theturk]

I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life.

[wb5]

Nov 10, 2008 20:10:50 GMT -5 rossbondreturns said:

Nope Multiple timelines are horrible in the Terminator universe....and they don't work.

What is that point of fighting to change your future if you're not changing your damned future?

In my conversations with Cameron he stated emphatically that it is NOT multiple timelines.

If Cameron said that, OK, than it is that way for T1 and T2 at least (TSCC does not necessarily have to follow that). Regarding the point of fighting though, there is always a clear benefit in stopping judgment day, even if it does not affect all futures: you don't get nuked, or get to live in a horrible, depressing post-apocalyptic world, still chased by Terminators and other assorted Skynet stuff. It is your future, after all.
But OK, thinking long about this timetravel stuff is bad, it's best just to suspend disbelief and move on and accept the premise.

About the episode;
Terrasj, you were spot on with your foster parent prediction! A nice detail, a nice shout out to T2 with John and his Foster parents.
Really liked this episode, suspenseful and the characters just "clicked". Liked the different perspectives to, even if they didn't bring any earthshattering differences (Sarah in the trunk was the biggest surprise though). I liked the ep from start to finish.

Interesting and long discussion on the preceding pages, allthough I disagree that the show needs to focus continually on just those 4 core characters. I maintain that a bigger ensemble makes the show stronger and that more variation (easier with more characters) is good.

Some particular points of interest:
-Riley is very likable in this episode, this character has improved a lot since her introduction. She now knows what John's real name is, and that they aren't kidding with the safewords and stuff (love that the code actually worked in this episode). She must have many questions, but at the same time, she still doesn't know about scary robots; it's still a "man with a gun" for her. I think the writing is on the wall (no pun intented) for her learning the truth, though; it may take a few more episodes, but I think she'll learn it soon enough.

-Sarah learnt a little bit about Cameron's glitch - another bit of pay-off in this episode (besides the pay off for last week's setup). No doubt this will come up in later episodes again, as Sarah will probably find out more (wonder if Jody or Rita will come back into play at some point). I liked Sarah's portrayal in this episode; she's still proud of not being a murderer, in spite of all

-Cromartie is a pretty "humane" Terminator, he even let Sarah live! (though I suppose the T1000 from T2 and Cameron in "Samson and Delilah" did the same - seems a general Terminator weakness). In prison, he only shot the threats. Using depleted uranium shells in the shotgun shows that the Terminators are vulnerable to present weapons, if you have the right ammo/weapon combo and you can ambush it (Terminators are too deadly to get close enough otherwise). He did get a grand death scene, though, being compared with the sacrifice of Christ and all. The latter probably signifies his supposed coming role in the future of Skynet; Weaver may well retrieve his body and use it somehow to aid the birth of Skynet. As his chip was destroyed (and thoroughly), I think the character Cromartie is done, though.

-Cameron is indeed fooled easily, and it seems almost certain now that she and future John were "very close". She may even be jealous - as terminators have shown emotions in T2, T3 and in TSCC repeatedly, it's not 100% out of the question. Her seduction attempt was very crude, though. Speaking about emotions, she indeed seemed to show some when she was killing Cromartie (I agree with Conium) - I wonder again if Cameron has qualms with killing her own kind, even if they are straight against her objective. She may be the antithesis of the Cylon Athena of "Battlestar Galactica" in this respect. I wonder just who she wrote the "goodbye note" to in S1 - as someone wrote, it may have been Vick-the-Terminator (though I suppose Allison is not impossible either). She did really seem to show troubled emotions this time though, quite unlike her icecold shooting of 3 humans last week.
About her being passionate to find John back, while she does appear to have an emotional tie to John (no matter that she would deny having emotions), this is also perfectly explainable within the context of her mission. Protecting John is still what she is programmed to do, presumably (unless the explosion has erased all programming and she chooses completely autonomously what to do), and if John is dead that she has failed her mission and she has no purpose any longer.
Now that Sarah knows a bit about her stuffing up, I expect this to come up in later episodes.
How did she and Derek know to go to Mexico, did they intercept the Interpol report or something?

-Ellison was quite bad-ass in stealing Cromartie's own car, and then he indeed led Cromartie to the Connors - but not quite like Cromartie had imagined that! Who did he get the call from, that agent, is it someone we know, What does Weaver know? It seems obvious she will learn about Cromartie's body (or already knows it), and will remove it before the Connors can burn it.

Loved it that John escaped exactly because he ran away with Riley. Lucky bastard, John Connor. But I think he does have a right to be with Riley, to have a normal relationship. Sarah and Cameron are wrong about this.

One problem with the episode is John getting recognised - by someone he saw years ago as a small kid, and when he is supposed to be 8 years older. That guy has some memory...

[rossbondreturns]

Nov 11, 2008 14:24:12 GMT -5 theturk said:

I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life.

Indeed man indeed.

If anyone should be facing heat it's Sarah.

Ellison should have gotten a LOT more recognition.

[cyadon]

Nov 11, 2008 14:24:12 GMT -5 theturk said:

I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life.

It's my double standard and I'll hold the people to it I feel like!

It just feels like the rebelliousness (regardless of how well it turned out this time) is no longer a new topic.

[t101]

I have one more quarrel. Instead of Derek the last time around dumping on us the properties of an anti-material rifle (which was obvious anyway) we should have gotten it with the shotgun slugs this episode. Because too many people aren't getting the idea that shotgun amo come in different varieties and is easily modifiable.

[conium]

Nov 11, 2008 14:24:12 GMT -5 theturk said:

I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life.

I think this is Johns "super-ability". Even when he makes a stupid immature decision, it turns out in his favor, even saves his life. But lots of people around him die.
He carries with him death, but will save more people than anyone else.
If in the future, if he has not too many (human) friends, perhaps this is why.

[aceplace57]

Some of the battle damage. There's no telling what damage is hidden under the shirt. Cromartie took a lot of shots to the torso. Interesting that neither eye is damaged.

[wb5]

Cameron hit him in the head though, with the shotgun, didn't she? The torso was hit often by fire from Derek and Sarah (and a couple hits at the police station), but damage would presumably be minimal from those.

[roseredscare]

Nov 11, 2008 14:24:12 GMT -5 theturk said:

I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life.

Just like his awful decision to put Cameron's chip back in magically turnout okay. If John was a smart, responsible person (I've lost hope of this ever being true) he would have informed Sarah and Derek that Cromartie had made their house and they would have moved again. Therefore Cromartie wouldn't have known where John was and all those people in Mexico wouldn't have died.