t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 11, 2008 17:37:49 GMT -5
Actually Cromartie found out because of the guy in the bowling alley whom Sarah spared.
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 11, 2008 17:46:17 GMT -5
Exactly.
Nothing John did or did not do.
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Post by g0newick3d on Nov 11, 2008 17:56:21 GMT -5
Did anyone else love Cameron's face right after she shot Cromartie? It was almost a sad expression.
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terrasj
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Rossbond Connor Crew
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Post by terrasj on Nov 11, 2008 18:09:14 GMT -5
About the episode; Terrasj, you were spot on with your foster parent prediction! A nice detail, a nice shout out to T2 with John and his Foster parents. Really liked this episode, suspenseful and the characters just "clicked". Liked the different perspectives to, even if they didn't bring any earthshattering differences (Sarah in the trunk was the biggest surprise though). I liked the ep from start to finish. Thanks I guess  And in this episode its like a 2-way street. Riley's so curious about John's childhood he tires of talking about it while saying little of her own childhood. We'll have to see how much more she learns of it. A little bit, but it opens up way more questions than gives answers. Cromartie knows or guesses about Cameron's glitch. Why his curiosity of it? Wishful thinking on his part that Cameron will turn on John? Or trying to seed / sow further distrust into Sarah (mis-information) about Cameron's usefulness as John's protector? Remove the protector from the Connors would've made his job easier (and any other further Terminators that'll replace him incase of his demise). Its not the first time he's done this, even in the first episode at the bank, he just passes the SWAT team at the entrance of the bank. Even the minor Bidell Terminator - threat-assessed the recruits at the Academy's training grounds. Good overall risk analysis abilities? Depleted Uranium shells? interesting new application of that type of ammunition. If thats what the ammunition is, sure looks like it works. I still think it was worth the thought and the effort on Cameron's part to try. Stemmed from Sarah's failed talk with John and Cameron wanting to try and help. I like what was revealed though, offering a little glimpse into the future what her significance was to John. This ties directly into the series opening episode - back at the gas station where John was filling the vehicle's tank - Cameron grabs a chip, eats it with a wink, telling John she's not like the rest, she's special. If John hadn't already pre-planned his trip with Riley, I wonder if John would've as readily sent Cameron out of the room. It seems to me Cameron's got 2 different modes of personality. Around everybody else, she's a quirky personality. But in private around John, she's entirely different. This is the first time she's shown this, perhaps she's been holding back until now, deciding this might be the right time. Likely this is her true identity and personality which she reserves for John, and John only in the future. The more I think about it, maybe thats why she appears so 'weird and quirky' most of the time - she's hiding her true capable identity, and she's stumbling around as trying to keep the facade of an alternative bland identity. (and knowing Sarah would probably freak out if she knew the truth. Sarah already had her suspicions about Cameron, and still maintaining them) Some of the battle damage. There's no telling what damage is hidden under the shirt. Cromartie took a lot of shots to the torso. Interesting that neither eye is damaged.  Hard to say about his left eye. Normally they glow red when theres no flesh covering, but likely the red is turned off for the facade. I'm looking closely at his face and skull. The left side of the eye socket looks very deformed, bent inwards as well as the lower left corner there. Theres also quite a few dents or holes in the side plating. There must've been punctures into his cranial cavity. There may also have been a breach in that dark spot - lower left corner below the eye there - theres a roundish dark cavity. Possibly from all the damaged he'd sustained, his cpu was forced to try and reroute all damages to other sub-systems hence the stone-like pause and then falling back like a stone slab. He wasn't quite dead yet, but John's bullet probably pulled that last plug. Did anyone else love Cameron's face right after she shot Cromartie? It was almost a sad expression. Remorse perhaps? Possibly worry and concern also - as others voiced, if she was out of shells, and not knowing if it was enough to take care of him. Its something she's displayed other times too. |
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 11, 2008 18:09:54 GMT -5
Did anyone else love Cameron's face right after she shot Cromartie? It was almost a sad expression. Yeah, it was quite sad. I don't think she likes killing fellow robots, even if they have a very different agenda. |
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Post by ga5speed02 on Nov 11, 2008 18:23:22 GMT -5
Did anyone else love Cameron's face right after she shot Cromartie? It was almost a sad expression. yea i noticed that. and also how she was when she got into bed with john. that was very human like behavior |
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 11, 2008 18:24:43 GMT -5
Thanks I guess And in this episode its like a 2-way street. Riley's so curious about John's childhood he tires of talking about it while saying little of her own childhood. We'll have to see how much more she learns of it. Yeah, I was also kind of waiting for John to ask about her childhood (I would guess it may involve abuse). She has already learned a lot - his false names, and that he is serious about those dangerous guys - but I think she will learn the rest pretty soon. A little bit, but it opens up way more questions than gives answers. Cromartie knows or guesses about Cameron's glitch. Why his curiosity of it? Wishful thinking on his part that Cameron will turn on John? Or trying to seed / sow further distrust into Sarah (mis-information) about Cameron's usefulness as John's protector? Remove the protector from the Connors would've made his job easier (and any other further Terminators that'll replace him incase of his demise). He was probably just wondering what could make a Terminator screw up the way Cameron did, and he may have been looking for confirmation from Sarah. In the show, it will indeed serve the purpose of making Sarah even more wary of Cameron, and it will probably lead to a reveal of Cameron's stint as Allison, eventually. Depleted Uranium shells? interesting new application of that type of ammunition. If thats what the ammunition is, sure looks like it works. Depleted uranium is also used in anti-armour shells for the main gun of tanks. So it would be pretty handy at breaching armour (a shotgun of course not being a tank gun, but then Cromartie is not quite a heavy tank yet - only a light one ;D ) I still think it was worth the thought and the effort on Cameron's part to try. Stemmed from Sarah's failed talk with John and Cameron wanting to try and help. At least she tried to talk with John, more than what Sarah and Derek did. she really overestimated her effectiveness, though. It was cute to see her all worried at the police station later, losing her cool when she feared he was dead. If John hadn't already pre-planned his trip with Riley, I wonder if John would've as readily sent Cameron out of the room. It seems to me Cameron's got 2 different modes of personality. Around everybody else, she's a quirky personality. But in private around John, she's entirely different. This is the first time she's shown this, perhaps she's been holding back until now, deciding this might be the right time. Likely this is her true identity and personality which she reserves for John, and John only in the future. The more I think about it, maybe thats why she appears so 'weird and quirky' most of the time - she's hiding her true capable identity, and she's stumbling around as trying to keep the facade of an alternative bland identity. (and knowing Sarah would probably freak out if she knew the truth. Sarah already had her suspicions about Cameron, and still maintaining them) Cameron was very different when she thought she was Allison, and also in the pilot, as well. i loved Sarah's dilemma her: she doesn't want a normal girl around because of the danger to the girl and the possible security problem, but she doesn't want John to turn to the bot either. And she is right in her suspicions, so it seems. Perhaps it will make her reconsider Riley's presence as a not-so-bad thing. |
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Nov 11, 2008 18:39:44 GMT -5
Last night's episode was awesome.
I approve.
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traitorsgate
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This is Cam. She's trained for an Off-World kick murder squad. Talk about Beauty and the Beast.
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 11, 2008 18:40:12 GMT -5
Oh please let's just nip this one in the bud. Depleted Uranium is a controlled substance and as such the Connors wouldn't have access to it, yes I know it's Hollywood but a bit of reality now and again isn't that bad is it? There are civilian applications for it namely in radiography equipment but it's supply is closely monitored by Government bodies. Trying to get your hands on DU on the sly is a virtual guarantee that various Government agencies will be kicking in your front door. Secondly DU isn't used in small arms ammunition, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Tungsten Carbide is the common material used for armor piecing rounds for small arms.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 11, 2008 18:44:42 GMT -5
Why is everyone so unhappy about Sarah not wanting Ellison to help her? Ellison is "in the system." Skynet already knows about his connection with the Connors, it has already tried to use him and it could do so again. It's the same with Charlie, Cromartie already used him to get to John, when Skynet sends another Terminator, it will likely use him again. It's nearly impossible for Sarah to find allies since Skynet will find out about it and put everyone in danger.
Also, Cameron didn't "look sad" when she killed pretzel girl. Plus she didn't really kill Vick since the chip is still intact. The expression she had after she shot Cromartie was the same as his, it could have been similar to how Cromartie mimicked Laszlo's expression before he killed him.
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Post by allergygal on Nov 11, 2008 18:46:57 GMT -5
Every other character has also run into complications before. What counts is that John found a way to extricate himself from jail by himself. Dealt with the consequences rather than sat around like a good but useless boy waiting for someone else to take charge. Every character felt spot on in this ep, including John. He's been kind of an idiot this season so far, but last night's ep showed us he's still John Connor. He was quick thinking and he did everything right after he'd done everything wrong. Yes, he makes stupid mistakes - he's human and he's a teenager. But he handled himself well in the situation. I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life. *ahem* (see below) Ah, but if John hadn't been lax about the security system last week, there would have been no robbery and no burglar at the bowling alley to give Cromartie the location of the house.  Oops!  ;D But think about it this way.... John is the only one who even bothers to set up a security system! Doesn't he get points for intention?  Okay he can have points for that. Really, though, I was trying to make the point that the blame game is useless. John's made more mistakes than anyone this season, but they've all been sloppy. And it's mostly because Sarah and John have been at odds. They've been keeping too much from each other and it's been backfiring on them big time. Sarah made her feelings known to Cameron "I don't like the effect you have on John" (or close to that spoken line anyways). Bot or not, Cameron's a similar aged, autonomicaly correct in appearance human girl, and Sarah's son is a teenage male. Nor does she trust Cameron anymore (as if she held much trust for her in the past) It was nice to see an acknowledgement of that - that having a hot teen girl protector bot in the house is a little weird. Because you know Sarah has to have been wondering what her adult son was thinking sending a robot that looks like Cameron back to live with them. The problem is that all their potential allies are also potential threats. Ellison is a perfect example. There is a lot that he could do to help the Connors but Skynet is already aware of him. Cromartie tried to use him to get to the Connors. Skynet even sent a Terminator to replace him. Skynet may yet try to use Ellison again. In order for the Connors to make new allies, they have to ensure that those allies cannot become liabilities. They can really only rely on people who have been "out of the system" for long periods of time. Good point! *karma* Sarah doesn't know that Skynet sent a cyborg to try to replace him, but being an FBI man, he isn't exactly a low profile kind of guy. I think she's wise to be leery of his help. I was surprised that Sarah was so rude to Ellison. He's seen enough now that he knows about the danger of Terminators. I'm puzzled why Sarah didn't explain about Skynet and the efforts to stop it. There's no security issues involved. Skynet is already very much aware that Sarah is working to stop its development. Sarah's hostile attitude did nothing except drive Ellison further towards Catherine Weaver's plans. He'll probably become convinced that she's working to stop the robots (Ellison doesn't know about Skynet yet). Ellison is a trained investigator and he certainly saved John and Sarah from Cromartie. Sarah practically told him to go F himself. Meanwhile, Weaver is constantly telling Ellison that he's important and that she needs him. I didn't get that sense at all - that Sarah was hostile towards Ellison. She was suspicious of him in the hotel room as she should have been. This is the man who'd been in charge of her case. Last season she realized (based on what she saw in his house) that he might be close to piecing the truth together and Charley also told her he thought Ellison was ready to believe her. But when an FBI agent shows up in Mexico when you're son's in trouble, why would her first thought be that he was there to help? Once he explained himself ("I owed you one"), she obviously believed him because he played the bait to lure Cromartie to the church. And I didn't sense any hostility after that either. Ellison is religious and Sarah isn't. I think that's disconnect between them. To Sarah, it's all face value, but Ellison is looking for a higher purpose to it all. But he already knows about Skynet. We know that from the pilot and from Demon Hand. That's why Sarah said "you know why I do it." She knows he knows. There really is nothing else behind the curtain. I thought the interaction between Sarah and Ellison was perfect. I do think Ellison is going to end up inadvertently working against the Connors by helping Weaver, but it's not like Sarah could warn him. She knows nothing about Zeira Corp and Ellison didn't offer up anything about it. So if anyone was holding back, it was Ellison. He may not understand Weaver's significance at this point (heck, we don't even understand it yet and we know way more than the characters themselves), but he knows enough to realize there's a connection between what Catherine is up to and what the Connors are doing. If he really wanted to go all in and help the Connors, he should have told Sarah about Catherine. I think Sarah Connor is perfectly in character. When did she ever trust anyone? Exactly. She trusted Ellison just enough. Any more would have been OOC. I admit I am amused to see all of the usual suspects jump on John's irresponsibility and not notice that had he remained in his room like a good boy, Cromartie would have emptied a clip into him the next morning. John taking off to Mexico literally saved his life. Indeed man indeed. If anyone should be facing heat it's Sarah. So John should rely on luck and Sarah should execute people?  |
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Post by legendzero on Nov 11, 2008 19:10:29 GMT -5
Oh please let's just nip this one in the bud. Depleted Uranium is a controlled substance and as such the Connors wouldn't have access to it, yes I know it's Hollywood but a bit of reality now and again isn't that bad is it? There are civilian applications for it namely in radiography equipment but it's supply is closely monitored by Government bodies. Trying to get your hands on DU on the sly is a virtual guarantee that various Government agencies will be kicking in your front door. Secondly DU isn't used in small arms ammunition, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Tungsten Carbide is the common material used for armor piecing rounds for small arms. I agree. They would not be able to get their hands on DU rounds. Cameron was at close range, she unloaded multiple slug shells and being a terminator her aim is excellent. Cromartie's eye looked gone to me. Those slugs hitting all within the same area at that close range would do serious damage. |
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 11, 2008 19:13:35 GMT -5
Also, Cameron didn't "look sad" when she killed pretzel girl. Plus she didn't really kill Vick since the chip is still intact. Pretzel girl self-Terminated. And Cameron did seem to be slightly disturbed by that - one of the final scenes of that episode was Cameron looking at the ruined chip in her hand, while reading the suicide-prevention pamphlet. |
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 11, 2008 19:17:38 GMT -5
Oh please let's just nip this one in the bud. Depleted Uranium is a controlled substance and as such the Connors wouldn't have access to it, yes I know it's Hollywood but a bit of reality now and again isn't that bad is it? There are civilian applications for it namely in radiography equipment but it's supply is closely monitored by Government bodies. Trying to get your hands on DU on the sly is a virtual guarantee that various Government agencies will be kicking in your front door. Secondly DU isn't used in small arms ammunition, contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe. Tungsten Carbide is the common material used for armor piecing rounds for small arms. Could civilians get access to that sniper rifle and its armor-piercing ammo from a few eps back though? Or infiltrate a military academy like it's nothing? I'm willing to suspend disbelief on this one. As for the material itself, is it not used in small arms because it has properties that aren't very good for that application or simply because it's too valuable to be wasted on small arms (main use is for heavy anti-tank shells, IIRC)? AFAIK it's a very heavy, dense metal, so it should be an effective armour-piercing round for any size it gets made in. In any case, clearly the shotgun was meant to be loaded with something more than your standard-issue ammo; the effect on Cromartie would have been close to nil otherwise. Tungsten rounds would be fine for the desired effect, I suppose... |
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Nov 11, 2008 19:28:56 GMT -5
To Allergygal:
It may have been luck...it may have been destiny but it works.
And yes...Sarah needs to held accountable.
Sounds from next weeks preview that some serious accountability issues are being explored.
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And in this episode its like a 2-way street. Riley's so curious about John's childhood he tires of talking about it while saying little of her own childhood. We'll have to see how much more she learns of it.
;D But think about it this way.... John is the only one who even bothers to set up a security system! Doesn't he get points for intention? 
