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Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 4, 2008 22:14:19 GMT -5
I was wondering about the point at which John and Cameron on in bed. Is it before or after the shootout and whatever resolution occurs in the episode.
I'm guessing it's after because the whole setup for the episode is John and Riley running off to Mexico (probably because Cromartie comes calling again after confirming where they live with the thief our brillliant Sarah left alive in the bowling alley). So it's unlikely Cameron had much opportunity to move on John before the episode gets moving.
So while I kinda doubt Riley gets killed in this episode, it could be she gets freaked. There's that line "I don't want to run away from you" - which Riley likely says BEFORE she gets shot at by Cromartie. ;D ;D Getting shot at probably changes her whole attitude toward John - at least temporarily.
So I can see John and Riley getting estranged by events temporarily - since Riley isn't leaving the show yet, as far as I can tell - which leaves an opening for Cameron to move in again - something she has been trying for several episodes (which is why all the soulful and concerned looks whenever John takes off with Derek or Riley or whoever in the last couple episodes.)
I am getting concerned again that the producers are plotting Cameron's demise. They seem to have been deliberately emphasizing her Terminator nature by having her beating up and killing people in nearly every episode, as if they are setting her up to be a negative figure in the audience's eyes. They might hope to not piss off too many people when they kill Cameron off if they do that.
Trust me - it's not going to work like that, Josh! Mess with Cameron, the show goes right into the toilet!
Besides, the more people she kills, the better I like her! But that's just me... ;D ;D
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Post by aceplace57 on Nov 4, 2008 23:49:22 GMT -5
The preview clip confirms that John & Cameron are in his bedroom. That hideous plaid wallpaper is unmistakable. Poor John. He hasn't even bothered clearing the kids toys off the bedside table. He's not doing anything to personalize the room. I think the scene with Cameron is at the beginning of the episode. Somehow, I can't imagine John tolerating Cameron's obvious ploy if he was just back from fighting Cromartie. But it's just idle speculation. bedroom cap from s02e02 sarahconnorsociety.net/photogallery/displayimage.php?pid=36591&fullsize=1preview cap of John / Cameron terminatorwiki.fox.com/photo/2581349/Just+talking
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traitorsgate
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 5, 2008 0:02:07 GMT -5
Eww, the décor in John's bedroom is a total mood killer, it just screams - One night of passion, equals a lifetime of misery.
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t101
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Post by t101 on Nov 5, 2008 11:15:51 GMT -5
I think the scene with Cameron is at the beginning of the episode. Somehow, I can't imagine John tolerating Cameron's obvious ploy if he was just back from fighting Cromartie. But it's just idle speculation. I think if Cameron really is 'offering herself' as the scene may suggest. That would logically occur after things between John and Riley break down after what they go through. I don't think anything is going to happen.
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tom
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Post by tom on Nov 5, 2008 12:29:21 GMT -5
Yeah, me neither. In the video Riley screams "I don't want to die!" while running and looking over her left shoulder, then we see Cromartie shooting from that direction and then John shouting Riley's name. My guess is Riley either dies or gets dumped by John in order not to risk her life again. The bedroom scene is after they got back from Mexico. But will anything happen Between John and Cam? I don't even think Cam is offering herself for John. Can't wait for next week to find out what's up!
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Nov 5, 2008 16:05:00 GMT -5
Yeah, me neither. In the video Riley screams "I don't want to die!" while running and looking over her left shoulder, then we see Cromartie shooting from that direction and then John shouting Riley's name. My guess is Riley either dies or gets dumped by John in order not to risk her life again. The bedroom scene is after they got back from Mexico. But will anything happen Between John and Cam? I don't even think Cam is offering herself for John. Can't wait for next week to find out what's up! Dang, and I could've sworn I saw those two laying there from the next episode promo at the end of Monday night's episode - it was just a flash but it was driving me crazy - did I imagine it? I'm glad I wasn't imagining it! And I could've sworn that the audio I heard with it was Cameron telling or reassuring John that he has lots of friends in the future. I mainly think Cam's just being there for John - to talk to him, to listen to him, spend time with him, be a sounding board for him, possibly even a heart to heart talk with John. Probably likely after the trip to Mexico. John's still got a ton of personal issues to work out, and I'll be willing to hedge the bet that Cam read in that teenage suicide pamphlet, taking up some advice she read in there. I'm just guessing at this, as I've not read a teenage suicide pamphlet or had any reason to... Though typically any health / medical awareness type pamphlet, theres going to be info on what the subject is about, spotting the signs, what to do, how to help, etc. Also, near the end of 2x07 Nablus, where Sarah puts her foot down about quiting John's bringing friends over - John unloads a fair bit of angst - first directed at Cameron - bringing up the fact she nearly tried to kill him, then at Sarah about if she's supposed to protect him but didn't when he figures she should've (killing Sarkissian) then storms of to his room. He's made the grim realization he's friendless - now and forever, destined to walk a lonely solitary path. Add to the fact that anyone who associates with him could be put in danger. Things are definitely not looking up for John, at least from his point of view. So theres 2 likely trains of thought I'm going with here - 1. Cam's being there for John like a close friend would - for emotional and mental support (possibly suggested by the suicide pamphlet), so he doesn't try to attempt suicide (again). 2. Cam's trying to repair some of the damage done to their formerly budding and close friendship / relationship (not necessarily romantic) from her Terminate mishap turned on John back in S02x01 Samson & Delilah. Its obvious that John still harbours some mistrust and angst towards Cameron for that incident (even though his attachment to her prior to tore at every fibre of his being when he was faced with taking her offline - and then permanently). This is all speculation, as good as anyone else's, but considering what we've seen in 2x07, and the new promos for 2x08 - I'm liking the possibility of more and deeper character depth building. Sure, theres borrowing the angst tone from BSG, but I think its working well for the drama aspect to pull us in and keep us hooked. Also, in Season 1, we saw John show some affection for Cameron (stroking hair bit, etc). I think its great if we'll be able to start see'ing some of that returned from Cameron now. She's becoming more individually unique and free-thinking (having mercilessly killed the 3 guys at the bowling alley - going against Sarah's original standing orders and threats about killing others from season1, etc). Who knows, maybe Cameron can rekindle that growing affection John had for her. There still could be a slight hint of something becoming more between them after this scene. Maybe theres more to that well played and mysterious "I love you John, and you love me" plead. If John gets a bit closer to Cam, I'd like to see John at least ask Cameron about that. But it first all has to start with this first step - Cam casually laying beside John on his bed (and wherever and whatever direction it may go from there) Lastly - I'm curios as to what Sarah's reaction would be if she saw Cameron on John's bed like that. Sarah's making a conundrum for herself - she doesn't want John to have an attachment (or feel anything otherwise) for Cameron, while at the same time she's cutting him off from any teenage friends and possible love interests (aka Riley). But yet if she's cutting off John's socializing to the outside world, then she's inadvertently pushing him towards Cameron since she's the only other friend and female (yeah yeah I know - in appearance only) aside from Sarah and Derek he can really open up to. Well, thats my take on it anyways.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 5, 2008 18:25:21 GMT -5
Has Cameron apologized for trying to kill John yet? That would be a good way to mend their relationship. She should get a "sorry for the murder attempt, but look on the bright side, it was unsuccessful" card.
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schmacky
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Post by schmacky on Nov 5, 2008 18:27:18 GMT -5
Has Cameron apologized for trying to kill John yet? That would be a good way to mend their relationship. She should get a "sorry for the murder attempt, but look on the bright side, it was unsuccessful" card. very good idea. and I think it would mean more because Cameron would probably have to make that card herself because I don't think there's a lot of those types of cards floating around out there.
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Post by vicheron on Nov 5, 2008 18:30:17 GMT -5
Has Cameron apologized for trying to kill John yet? That would be a good way to mend their relationship. She should get a "sorry for the murder attempt, but look on the bright side, it was unsuccessful" card. very good idea. and I think it would mean more because Cameron would probably have to make that card herself because I don't think there's a lot of those types of cards floating around out there. Sure there is, in the OJ collection.
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tom
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Post by tom on Nov 5, 2008 19:00:12 GMT -5
Probably it would be a logical start point to apologize. And very nice...if Cam was human. The point I'm trying to get is, if I was John I would know Cam can't feel sorry for real so it wouldn't mean much. I would know she's just trying to manipulate me to make her mission easier. It's sad.
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Nov 5, 2008 19:23:52 GMT -5
Probably it would be a logical start point to apologize. And very nice...if Cam was human. The point I'm trying to get is, if I was John I would know Cam can't feel sorry for real so it wouldn't mean much. I would know she's just trying to manipulate me to make her mission easier. It's sad. Maybe... But it'd still be the thought and act of doing that counts. If she can learn why people grieve, feel loss, she could learn what it means to apologize. If Cam dosn't in this episode (we won't know what their discussing until the episode airs), Cam could possibly work up to that point - rather than just out of the blue give John an apology card and say "I'm sorry for trying to kill you" , save it for when it'd count and mean something. Maybe in a later episode once they've built up some of that trust and friendship and saves John's life - when Sarah or Derek isn't around to help them. Thats how I'd work it anyways.
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traitorsgate
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 5, 2008 19:32:21 GMT -5
Probably it would be a logical start point to apologize. And very nice...if Cam was human. The point I'm trying to get is, if I was John I would know Cam can't feel sorry for real so it wouldn't mean much. I would know she's just trying to manipulate me to make her mission easier. It's sad. Precisely, as much as it must grate with the Shippers the whole point of the way the relationship between John & Cameron has been developed this season is as I see it as means to illustrate that John Connor needed a reality check with regards to what Cameron is.
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Nov 5, 2008 20:20:27 GMT -5
Apparently there is an interview with the actress playing Riley (was posted on the FOX boards) where she said that Riley is still in the show by ep13. She also wasn't at the comic con apparently, so chances are she is not the one who dies (nor a second death).
As for Cameron, I'm not sure she can't feel "sorry", in her own way. There have been subtle hints (no, not the scene where she was crushed between the trucks, of course) in both seasons about her showing something that looks a lot like emotions.
For example, when she tried to kill Jody and then didn't. Or when she asked Sarah, in response to Sarah's own cancer fear, if she was a timebomb waiting to go off. Or when she wrote the "goodbye note" in early S1. There are plenty of small examples.
So, perhaps she does feel sorry, in her clumsy, Terminator way.
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traitorsgate
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Post by traitorsgate on Nov 5, 2008 20:43:18 GMT -5
For mine it's going to be Cromartie unfortunately. Given the writers proclivity for religious metaphors in this seres, then the scene in the Church with Cromartie, arms outstretched (with a gun in each hand) denoting the Crucifixion Of Christ is where he likely buys the farm. Heck you might even see Cameron in the role of the Roman Centurion use Cromartie's pike (the one he used to kill Ellison's doppelgänger with) to finish him off.
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tom
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Post by tom on Nov 5, 2008 20:49:28 GMT -5
Haha, I like that. "clumsy, Terminator way" it cracks me up without any reason ;D
But could John tolerate Cam's apologies? He seems grumpy every time Cameron tries to make connection with him. Sometimes I even feel sorry for her.
If you're right about Riley, then I don't know what happens next. I had this feeling she's gonna disappear one way or the other, but now I'm clueless.
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