t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Apr 9, 2008 17:28:15 GMT -5
My theories: - Cameron is either the very first reprogrammed Terminator or is otherwise somehow instrumental to their reprogramming. - She is the only model of her kind. - She is Skynet's very own Frankenstein creation. An attempt to make a superior infiltrator but ended up with too much free will. - It was her in the basement. But there is even more to her history with Derek. - She is close to future!John. He tells her some things that no one else knows about him. - She already has or will develop an agenda of her own. Probably it'll involve the desire for herself or her kind to survive in some form in the future. - It'll be revealed she took quiet a few liberties when fulfilling her mission parameters. Of course I'm just shooting blindly here. If Cameron does go bad then I hope it's permanent. The whole "character going bad for a couple of episodes then turns good again but loses everyone else's trust" plotline is pretty worn out. In that case I don't want her going bad, ever. Unless it's the very end. I want to see what will ultimately become of the relationships she's forming with the rest of the cast.
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Post by luojieyong on Apr 28, 2008 1:31:08 GMT -5
I like the Frankenstein Terminator theory, as it fits perfectly with the theme of creating things that we can't handle, which is pretty much the overall meaning of the whole Terminator franchise.
As for Cameron "going bad", I'm pretty certain that it's going to happen. Summer hints at it during the Carson Daly interview, so unless she's being extremely deceptive, I think it's gonna happen. ("I'm good now, but we don't know what I'll be later" paraphrased)
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Post by Erika on Jun 11, 2008 12:47:21 GMT -5
Zack will need to confirm if this info is correct or not - I was poking around on a WB Hispanic site and they have this listed as Cameron's info:
Model: TDK715
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Jun 11, 2008 12:56:13 GMT -5
Some early posters for the series had Cameron labeled as TOK715. But that might not have carried over into the actual show because they are keeping her such a mystery.
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Post by terminatornerd on Jun 11, 2008 15:30:45 GMT -5
I'd rather her not go bad, or at least show what she was like before joining the resistance in the future, so you can get some sort of comparison.
Perhaps as part of her learning to be human she makes a bad judgment call or choice, not with malicious intent, but she has to over come the mistake and learn from it. Everyone makes mistakes. We are not perfect creations... nothing is. Nothing.
I'd rather see Derek as the more untrustworthy character. You may sometimes question Cameron's motives, but in the end she's the loyal one, the true companion, the one with "the heart" even though she's the machine.
But Derek, the human, John's uncle, has too much baggage, too much rage, too much personal stuff rolling around that clouds his judgment. And that winds up making him the dangerous one... the live wire. He's becoming "soulless" in a sense while Cameron is becoming the one finding hers.
In this game of man vs. machine... it's the man you have to be the most careful of.
How about that?
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Post by vicheron on Jun 11, 2008 23:37:15 GMT -5
What I find interesting is that Cameron actually had a chance to bring the Connors to the future. In the pilot episode, they could have used the time dilation device to go to 2027 and then use the Resistance's time dilation device to go back to 2007.
If in fact Cameron's goal is to change the future and prevent Judgment Day then I wonder why they didn't take that valuable opportunity to learn more of the post Judgment Day world and how to stop Skynet.
On the other hand, if Cameron is working for Skynet, it would have also been a valuable opportunity for Skynet to learn more about its nemesis. At first I speculated that they actually did go to the future before they arrived in 2007, they just don't remember it, or at least the Connors don't remember it. Maybe the reason why Cameron knows so much about John is not because future John trusts her but because she actually took the Connors to the future and got the information from them there and erased their memories of what happened. However, the fact that Cromartie's head went with them screws up that idea.
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Post by sandrinha on Jul 11, 2008 14:20:11 GMT -5
I'd rather her not go bad, or at least show what she was like before joining the resistance in the future, so you can get some sort of comparison. Perhaps as part of her learning to be human she makes a bad judgment call or choice, not with malicious intent, but she has to over come the mistake and learn from it. Everyone makes mistakes. We are not perfect creations... nothing is. Nothing. I'd rather see Derek as the more untrustworthy character. You may sometimes question Cameron's motives, but in the end she's the loyal one, the true companion, the one with "the heart" even though she's the machine. But Derek, the human, John's uncle, has too much baggage, too much rage, too much personal stuff rolling around that clouds his judgment. And that winds up making him the dangerous one... the live wire. He's becoming "soulless" in a sense while Cameron is becoming the one finding hers. In this game of man vs. machine... it's the man you have to be the most careful of. How about that? Totally agree with this. She is the machine so she shouldn't be dancing ballet on her own and questioning Sarah when she says something that *may* sound harsh. Derek for me is the time bomb waiting to blow up, Sarah and Derek don't like Cameron because she is a Terminator but yet it's Derek that has the hidden agendas and hides it from *his* fellow humans. I want her to go bad, but i also want her to decide to change her mission orders. If she is unique there is no way we can safely predict that she will be either bad or good, she can be both like humans are.
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Post by allergygal on Jul 12, 2008 12:20:21 GMT -5
Cameron was shown to be MUCH more than a machine in Season 1: Curious, possibly searching for ways to associate with humans (trying to make friends, small talk, etc.), dancing, flirting a bit (maybe showing a kind of feeling for John), cracking tiny jokes, getting her feelings ruffled a tiny bit, learning not to kill indiscriminately, etc. Now, after one jolt she's seemingly a one-note robot all of a sudden: attack, destroy, kill. If that's a correct assessment on my part, then how is Cameron "different" than any other machine we've seen so far? More than a machine? I don't see that. A more advanced machine, yes, and I suspect we will see her moving towards self-awareness as time goes on. But even if Cameron has a greater capacity for learning than other machines, it wouldn't make her indestructible. Humans can suffer brain damage - lose memories, get stuck in with personality quirks. Her chip is her brain. If you damage that, it'll affect her, whether she's becoming sentient or not. So Cameron would need therapy then to get over her PTSD? LOL. I don't see that happening. It's too soon for the show to advance Cameron that much. I would definitely roll my eyes if John "talked her down" instead of shutting her down. I can't follow you that far. Anyway, when Sarah asked Cameron if she'd done something to Derek in the future, Cameron said she didn't know because their emories are scrubbed before they're reprogrammed. So she was reprogrammed by the resistance - probably by John himself.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Jul 12, 2008 12:34:35 GMT -5
Her chip is her brain. If you damage that, it'll affect her, whether she's becoming sentient or not. I agree with this from a technical point, but I just think it's not in the spirit of how the Terminators have always been shown to us. And just a kind of weak plot device (to me). Though like I said I'll reserve final judgment until I actually see how it's implemented. I wouldn't if he found a way to appeal to her way of thinking, but not if he calmed her down as if she was a real girl or something. I though the way John reasons with the Terminator in T3 wasn't too bad. Actually my theory is that this is something she lied about. IMO she's withholding something about herself and Derek Reese.
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Post by terminatornerd on Jul 12, 2008 13:29:45 GMT -5
More than a machine? I don't see that. A more advanced machine, yes, and I suspect we will see her moving towards self-awareness as time goes on. But even if Cameron has a greater capacity for learning than other machines, it wouldn't make her indestructible. Humans can suffer brain damage - lose memories, get stuck in with personality quirks. Her chip is her brain. If you damage that, it'll affect her, whether she's becoming sentient or not. I thought Sarah's narration in "The Demon Hand" spelled out that what if a machine became like a human. That would mean Cameron was more than a machine. Much, much more. That's not to say she couldn't develop her own "quirks" due to damage like a real human with trauma. In and of itself, that would mean she's acting like more than just like a machine. Again, John has shown he has an affinity for talking to machines so that they will understand. He could talk to her as both a machine and the young woman she's been acting like around him. Pleading with both sides of her make up: the growing human and the machine. He's done it before: had regular conversations with her. He told her to keep trying until she got things right (that's what she told the dance instructor he said)... and she listened to him. Even if they stun her with an electrical shock... a machine's achille's heel: 1.21 Gigawatts of electricity, like a bolt of lightning! ;D ... he should still have to talk to her so that he knows she can still be trusted for Sarah's sake, at least. And then Sarah would have to have a kind of "mother/daughter" talk to ease her suspicions about Cameron's recent behavior. Perhaps this is where Cameron's stoic resolve crumbles a little at the edges and she shows some true remorse for once since it seems like Sarah was hurt in the promos. Maybe Sarah blows up and yells at her in fear, anger, and frustration and later on we see Cameron alone in her bedroom, sitting on her bed and staring, and she slowly breaks down and cries. Sarah is standing in the doorway gazing at her when she does (Cam doesn't know she's been there a little bit), and after a moment's hesitation and surprise, walks in, sits down next to her, and hugs a distraught Cam to her tightly. Just like a mother would comforting her own child, tears starting to roll down her cheeks as well. I also believe she was lying or fibbing about Derek. John asked her point blank if she lies or withholds mission data and she said "yes." I always thought she hadn't wrapped her brain completely around the notion that Future John and the new John (because the Future has now been re-written already) are the same person, that she can (at some point) learn that he can be trusted with more information.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Jul 12, 2008 14:09:44 GMT -5
I thought Sarah's narration in "The Demon Hand" spelled out that what if a machine became like a human. That would mean Cameron was more than a machine. Much, much more. That's not to say she couldn't develop her own "quirks" due to damage like a real human with trauma. In and of itself, that would mean she's acting like more than just like a machine. While Sarah's musings about the line between man and machine are interesting. We should be careful where we throw this. Cameron is not human, she is a machine. It's another point that she's not "just a machine" in a sense that, no, she isn't like a car and isn't like a tool. There is morality involved in how you deal with one like her, otherwise the debate wouldn't exist. While I am all for there being in character consequences for Cameron. Breaking down and crying isn't going to happen. Even if we were to suppose she can have those emotions and be compelled to express them this way, she isn't anywhere near that stage in her development. I don't think it's a matter of wrapping her brain over it. She doesn't take orders for a reason. Either there are things she must do that future John knew his younger self and mom wouldn't agree with. Or he trusts Cameron to make the right choices.
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Post by sandrinha on Jul 13, 2008 14:30:23 GMT -5
Perhaps this is where Cameron's stoic resolve crumbles a little at the edges and she shows some true remorse for once since it seems like Sarah was hurt in the promos. Maybe Sarah blows up and yells at her in fear, anger, and frustration and later on we see Cameron alone in her bedroom, sitting on her bed and staring, and she slowly breaks down and cries. Sarah is standing in the doorway gazing at her when she does (Cam doesn't know she's been there a little bit), and after a moment's hesitation and surprise, walks in, sits down next to her, and hugs a distraught Cam to her tightly. Just like a mother would comforting her own child, tears starting to roll down her cheeks as well. This sounds too much like fanfiction for me, i can see Sarah blow up in her face like she did last season about Charley, and like last season Cameron will learn from what Sarah tells her (or yells at her). I see Cameron and Sarah like a mother/daughter duet, with the exception that Cam is a machine LOL. I don't see Cam crying at all, but i think we will see Cam paying even more attention to Sarah/John after these events. Who knows what the future holds.
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Post by allergygal on Jul 14, 2008 11:32:09 GMT -5
I wouldn't if he found a way to appeal to her way of thinking, but not if he calmed her down as if she was a real girl or something. I though the way John reasons with the Terminator in T3 wasn't too bad. That might work - if he appealed to logic and reason. I still think he'll get her chip out and fix her, though, rather than trying to talk her down. It just seems to soon for that. But if Cameron retains the memories of trying to kill John, I can imagine her questioning why he didn't destroy her. And maybe that could lead to a greater understanding about human emotion. Actually my theory is that this is something she lied about. IMO she's withholding something about herself and Derek Reese.[/quote] Oh yeah, I agree that she's withholding a few somethings. I'm sure John sent her back with a larger agenda than just protecting him. And lying to Sarah and John was no doubt approved by future!John, who could see the bigger picture. I'm not sure she's lying about her interaction with Derek in the future, though. Right before Sarah asked her if she'd done something to him in the future, Cameron seemed to be trying to access her memory - the way she was just standing there looking at him - she realized he must know her, but she can't remember him. Either that or she was going to smother him with that pillow
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Post by allergygal on Jul 14, 2008 11:41:40 GMT -5
More than a machine? I don't see that. A more advanced machine, yes, and I suspect we will see her moving towards self-awareness as time goes on. But even if Cameron has a greater capacity for learning than other machines, it wouldn't make her indestructible. Humans can suffer brain damage - lose memories, get stuck in with personality quirks. Her chip is her brain. If you damage that, it'll affect her, whether she's becoming sentient or not. I thought Sarah's narration in "The Demon Hand" spelled out that what if a machine became like a human. That would mean Cameron was more than a machine. Much, much more. That's not to say she couldn't develop her own "quirks" due to damage like a real human with trauma. In and of itself, that would mean she's acting like more than just like a machine. Sarah's VO at the end of Demon Hand: There was a time I was a hero to my son. He thought I walked on water. He knows better now. We all have weak moments, moments where we lose faith. But it's our flaws, our weaknesses that make us human. Science now performs miracles like the gods of old, creating life from blood cells or bacteria or a spark of metal. But they're perfect creatures, and in that way, they couldn't be less human. There are things machines will never do. They can not possess faith. They can not commune with God. They can not appreciate beauty. They can not create art. If they ever learn these things, they won't have to destroy us, they'll be us.I don't think Cameron is more than a machine yet. She was practicing what she learned, not necessarily appreciating beauty or creating art. I really think that scene was more about Derek's reaction to seeing her do something that seemed to beautiful and human than it was about Cameron dancing. He hates her - she's just a machine, a metal bitch, yet he was moved by watching her dance so beautifully. She confuses everyone - even Derek.
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kit
Refugee
NO one is ever safe..we?re leaving! one bag plus the guns..I'll make pancakes. BY:Sarah Connor...LOL
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Post by kit on Jul 14, 2008 15:53:49 GMT -5
Some early posters for the series had Cameron labeled as TOK715. But that might not have carried over into the actual show because they are keeping her such a mystery. Hey what if Cameron isn't really that advanced? You know, the TOK715 could stand for T-715. Sometimes older versions of things work better, like windows 98 being better then windows milenium. What if Cameron is really a pre T-800 model? That's possible right?
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