t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Apr 30, 2009 13:08:27 GMT -5
Who said I'm ok with Derek? I'll say this, I'm ok with them being alive in the future storyline. But the whole Kyle birthed John and died... and then another version came back... just too weird. It demeans the original story IMO.
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Post by vicheron on Apr 30, 2009 13:09:44 GMT -5
Derek and Kyle can't go back in time for the same reason why future John never goes back into the past. They're the leaders of the Resistance now, if their time travel attempt doesn't change the future, the Resistance will be crippled.
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timstuff
Private
Scary robot? Naw...
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Post by timstuff on Apr 30, 2009 14:40:41 GMT -5
I don't know what kind of weird time paradox it could potentially create if the alternate versions of Derek and / or Kyle came back, but I frankly don't care to find out. Kyle and Derek, or at least the versions that the Connors knew, are dead. I'd prefer they let them stay that way, because frankly I do not want them to cheapen death on this show by using time travel to bring people back to life.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Apr 30, 2009 17:06:38 GMT -5
This finally opens up the possibility of Kyle being in the present that makes sense (making sense in the realm of this universe) Agreed. It's a fascinating dichotomy, the dead/not dead (FARSCAPE played it with John Crichton and it was brilliant) - it's one of the things that sf can explore: how do you face getting your one true love back again - and no more inherently risible than time travel itself.
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Post by vicheron on Apr 30, 2009 20:36:24 GMT -5
This is a completely different Kyle Reese. Sarah's Kyle went back in time for her. He was always in love with her. This Kyle is more like a twin brother separated at birth.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Apr 30, 2009 21:39:29 GMT -5
Derek and Kyle can't go back in time for the same reason why future John never goes back into the past. They're the leaders of the Resistance now, if their time travel attempt doesn't change the future, the Resistance will be crippled. Are they? I must have missed that bit of exposition... wait, no. I didn't. We don't what role Derek and Kyle play in this future. Exactly. That's what makes it fascinating.
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Post by vicheron on Apr 30, 2009 23:25:45 GMT -5
Brian Austin Green said in a recent interview with Skynext that he's the head of the Resistance.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Apr 30, 2009 23:52:43 GMT -5
Brian Austin Green said in a recent interview with Skynext that he's the head of the Resistance. I'll believe it when I see it onscreen until then, it's all speculation.
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Post by allergygal on May 1, 2009 1:14:46 GMT -5
I'll say this, I'm ok with them being alive in the future storyline. But the whole Kyle birthed John and died... and then another version came back... just too weird. It demeans the original story IMO. I don't see it as demeaning of the original story, just a twist on it. And that's really what Born to Run did already — twist the story. John Connor leaping ahead to gain future war experience years before he'd actually lead the resistance is certainly a departure from the original story. Derek and Kyle can't go back in time for the same reason why future John never goes back into the past. They're the leaders of the Resistance now, if their time travel attempt doesn't change the future, the Resistance will be crippled. If it's a mission crucial to the survival of the resistance, I see no reason why Kyle coudn't go. He might even volunteer for it just like original Kyle did. I don't know what kind of weird time paradox it could potentially create if the alternate versions of Derek and / or Kyle came back, but I frankly don't care to find out. Kyle and Derek, or at least the versions that the Connors knew, are dead. I'd prefer they let them stay that way, because frankly I do not want them to cheapen death on this show by using time travel to bring people back to life. It's a little later for that. Time travel just allowed John to meet his dead uncle and father, so the door has been opened.
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Post by littleb on May 1, 2009 2:56:30 GMT -5
I don't see it as demeaning of the original story, just a twist on it. And that's really what Born to Run did already — twist the story. John Connor leaping ahead to gain future war experience years before he'd actually lead the resistance is certainly a departure from the original story. They've given themselves carte blanche to twist all sorts of things if the show gets more air-time. We have alt.versions of Derek and Kyle ready to stay and play, or send back to Sarah (and play... please, oh please) and Allison as an not.Cameron. John Connor might as well be John Baum in the future he's gone to, so his character will also need building from scratch - if he stays there. That would be sweet; to have him volunteering for some version of his original mission but without the lurve factor motivating him, and ending up with Sarah who's just lost her son and pretty much everyone else except for that prat in the suit. I could definitely see some excellent character mileage in that scenario. Despite even Derek trying to steer her in that direction, she never has let Kyle go, and his presence/loss in the back 9 was even more palpable. Actually, it'd work even if alt.Derek got sent back, Sarah's lost her family and her team, it'd be interesting to see how she reacted to anyone familiar turning up to work on her side. I'd prefer they let them stay that way, because frankly I do not want them to cheapen death on this show by using time travel to bring people back to life. It's a little later for that. Time travel just allowed John to meet his dead uncle and father, so the door has been opened. Derek was always coming back. Granted, I didn't expect it to be in the next episode, but there was no way he was staying dead. I love the idea of a whole different Derek and Kyle and rebuilding them from scratch. And it had to be that way with Derek, he'd completely burned his bridges with Sarah (or she'd torched them for him) so only a completely alt.Derek would really work. I think I'll err on the side of preferring Derek with Sarah (cos he's had more time to wheedle his way into my affections!) but either way it presents a whole mess of issues and implications that can only lead to good drama.
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Post by vicheron on May 1, 2009 3:50:03 GMT -5
Brian Austin Green said in a recent interview with Skynext that he's the head of the Resistance. I'll believe it when I see it onscreen until then, it's all speculation. What's your point? The idea that Derek and Kyle can go back is also speculation. Heck, even the idea that they're in an alternate future is speculation. For all we know, they're in a future where future John still exists. If it's a mission crucial to the survival of the resistance, I see no reason why Kyle coudn't go. He might even volunteer for it just like original Kyle did. But since they're going with the multiple/alterable timeline, no mission is crucial to the survival of this Resistance because if they managed to change the timeline, this Resistance would cease to exist. The thing they have to worry about is if the timeline is not changed because if they sent their most important people back and they fail to change the future, the current timeline would remain but the Resistance would be crippled.
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Post by allergygal on May 1, 2009 5:05:11 GMT -5
If it's a mission crucial to the survival of the resistance, I see no reason why Kyle coudn't go. He might even volunteer for it just like original Kyle did. But since they're going with the multiple/alterable timeline, no mission is crucial to the survival of this Resistance because if they managed to change the timeline, this Resistance would cease to exist. The thing they have to worry about is if the timeline is not changed because if they sent their most important people back and they fail to change the future, the current timeline would remain but the Resistance would be crippled. Yeah, that's one of the reasons I didn't like Born to Run. But the writers got us into this time travel mess for a reason and they'll figure a way out of it. In the meantime, Sarah stuck in a timeline that has a set future (and stuck with Ellison of all people) is no good, so someone's coming back and I think it'll be Kyle. I'm sure Derek can manage without him. John can pick up the slack.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Post by k8ie on May 1, 2009 12:22:52 GMT -5
I'll believe it when I see it onscreen until then, it's all speculation. What's your point? The idea that Derek and Kyle can go back is also speculation. Heck, even the idea that they're in an alternate future is speculation. For all we know, they're in a future where future John still exists. My point you're arguing that Kyle can't go to the past based on nothing but speculation when all possibilities are, as you note, in play at this time. As for John, you could be correct. I think Derek's comments demonstrate that since John travelled from 2008 to 202? this is a future where John Connor didn't form the resistance because he wasn't there to do it. As for what role Kyle and Derek play in the resistance, all we know is that they're still fighting.
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Post by vicheron on May 1, 2009 16:41:56 GMT -5
I'm basing my argument on what Brian Austin Green said in an interview. He's the one who confirmed that this is an alternate timeline and that Derek is the leader of the Resistance.
I'm already ignoring the many plot problems that this causes. One of the biggest problems being that Kyle had the picture of Sarah in the previous timeline and presumably he was sent back for the T1 mission. That suggests Kyle has to be sent back in order for John Connor to exist even if there are alterable timelines. If John isn't the leader of the Resistance, then Skynet wouldn't send a Terminator to kill Sarah and there would be no reason for Kyle to travel back to 1984 and John wouldn't exist at all.
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Post by allergygal on May 1, 2009 17:06:16 GMT -5
I'm basing my argument on what Brian Austin Green said in an interview. He's the one who confirmed that this is an alternate timeline and that Derek is the leader of the Resistance. I'm already ignoring the many plot problems that this causes. One of the biggest problems being that Kyle had the picture of Sarah in the previous timeline and presumably he was sent back for the T1 mission. That suggests Kyle has to be sent back in order for John Connor to exist even if there are alterable timelines. If John isn't the leader of the Resistance, then Skynet wouldn't send a Terminator to kill Sarah and there would be no reason for Kyle to travel back to 1984 and John wouldn't exist at all. When dealing with multiple timelines/future, Kyle doesn't actually have to get sent back to 1984 because he already did (at a later date, in a previous timeline). And as a result, John does exist. So... Kyle can go to 2009.
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