|
Post by amelie on Oct 6, 2008 18:58:42 GMT -5
I hope we'll see more of Derek in tonight's episode!
|
|
|
Post by antigone01 on Oct 12, 2008 23:51:14 GMT -5
I had a thought that maybe Derek knew Allison Young and she was a friend or something and everytime he looks at Cameron it reminds him of her and perhaps he also knows that Cameron killed her. That would add an interesting twist to the Derek and Cameron dynamic and would be an even bigger reason to hate her. In any event, I do think Cameron has done something personally very bad to Derek for the extra reason to hate her, aside from the fact that she is a machine. And on that note, I personally think it would be insane of Derek to NOT hate and/or distrust all machines, given what they have taken from him (which is basically everyone and everything he held dear). So it's not irrational at all for Derek to distrust or hate Cameron. It makes perfect sense.
Also, on the point that Derek would go to extreme measures to try to make things right, including killing a few to save many, I think he would and that is understandable. Maybe not necessarily 'right', but it's not a black and white issue here, the issue and the character in general is somewhere firmly in the shades of gray area. I think that Derek's prime motivation was and is Kyle, to save him. Like he said to his team when he told them about jumping back in time, the first thing he said was that they would save Kyle, then he said save everybody. I think that is his priorities right there. 1) Save Kyle 2) Save the world/the human race. That is an admirable trait, unconditional love and loyalty. But it can also lead to extreme choices and I have no doubt that Derek did or would get his hands dirty to protect his priorities. I also think he sees himself as expendable and has no hope for himself, but if he has to dirty his hands or his soul or even give up his life, he would in a heartbeat to save Kyle, John, stop Judgment day, and maybe even to save Sarah's life.
And slightly OT, so maybe I will post in the John forum as well, but I have to agree with those that said John did a very stupid thing when he put the chip back in Cameron. Even if he didn't destroy her, he should have at least not put it back in at that time and certainly should have never raised a gun to his own mother or his uncle Derek. Risking his own life was foolish, but risking the life of his own flesh and blood is inexcusable. This has made me dislike his character this season. It's stupid, overly emotional, and selfish. It wasn't a strategic move this time, because the odds were all in favor that Cameron would have killed John, then his family, then there goes the fate of humanity down the toilet completely. Also there is the fact that one should never aim at something (or someone) you're not willing to shoot (or kill). So what would have happened if Sarah or Derek or Charley would have protested further? He would have shot and killed them? That is absolutely sickening. It's a character flaw that I must admit has always been present in the films as well and is the one that leads to his downfall ultimately as he is killed by a machine, yet it is taken to extreme here.
|
|
|
Post by chrisimo on Oct 23, 2008 8:29:44 GMT -5
And slightly OT, so maybe I will post in the John forum as well, but I have to agree with those that said John did a very stupid thing when he put the chip back in Cameron. Even if he didn't destroy her, he should have at least not put it back in at that time and certainly should have never raised a gun to his own mother or his uncle Derek. Risking his own life was foolish, but risking the life of his own flesh and blood is inexcusable. This has made me dislike his character this season. It's stupid, overly emotional, and selfish. It wasn't a strategic move this time, because the odds were all in favor that Cameron would have killed John, then his family, then there goes the fate of humanity down the toilet completely. Also there is the fact that one should never aim at something (or someone) you're not willing to shoot (or kill). So what would have happened if Sarah or Derek or Charley would have protested further? He would have shot and killed them? That is absolutely sickening. It's a character flaw that I must admit has always been present in the films as well and is the one that leads to his downfall ultimately as he is killed by a machine, yet it is taken to extreme here. Well, it may have been a stupid thing but I think it is this character flaw or how you want to call it that will make him the leader in the future and will make him bring about the destruction of Skynet (If there isn't an alternate future created at the conclusion of this series).
|
|
roseredscare
Private
Castiel, your local kickass angel
Posts: 120
|
Post by roseredscare on Oct 23, 2008 15:50:01 GMT -5
Bahahaha, not before he gets his family and himself killed, anyway. I'm so over John Connor. If he's going to act like a selfish, emo, suicidal brat fine, just don't expect me to ever think of him as this amazing leader because he's NOT!
|
|
|
Post by richardstevenhack on Nov 25, 2008 2:19:13 GMT -5
Well, we now know two things about Derek:
1) Either he doesn't remember that he was brainwashed at least once and possibly twice, or he comes from a time line where that didn't happen - which means he doesn't know WHAT the hell is going on in the future any more.
Which makes any decision he makes in the present based on his perception of the future worthless.
2) He's blinded by his infatuation with Jesse and his hatred and fear of Cameron to join Jesse in a plot to off Cameron.
Which means he's going into a direct collision course with John Connor.
Not to mention that he's lied to Sarah AGAIN - after being told last season that if he did that again, she'd kill him.
Derek had better straighten out or he's not long for this world.
|
|
|
Post by Derek Reese on Dec 24, 2008 21:13:06 GMT -5
Well, we now know two things about Derek: 1) Either he doesn't remember that he was brainwashed at least once and possibly twice, or he comes from a time line where that didn't happen - which means he doesn't know WHAT the hell is going on in the future any more. Which makes any decision he makes in the present based on his perception of the future worthless. 2) He's blinded by his infatuation with Jesse and his hatred and fear of Cameron to join Jesse in a plot to off Cameron. Which means he's going into a direct collision course with John Connor. Not to mention that he's lied to Sarah AGAIN - after being told last season that if he did that again, she'd kill him. Derek had better straighten out or he's not long for this world. Can't help but think its both factors playing into matters at present.
|
|
|
Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 25, 2008 15:50:19 GMT -5
Just watched season one over again yesterday. Was still struck by Derek's statement to John in the "Demon Hand" episode when he said being behind four walls can mess with one's head and make you do things you'd never thought you'd do. It really seemed as if he was talking about his time in the interrogation house. It was definitely a personal remembrance not just a general comment about Sarah's time in the mental hospital.
He might have been trying to justify to himself why he killed Andy Goode, a comrade he knew from the future - but it might also be a hint of something deeper. Allegedly we will find out more about his and Cameron's interaction in the future and what happened in the interrogation house.
I noticed in the "Allison" episode this season that when Cameron killed Allison, she showed Allison the wristband passes she "took from some of your friends". I wonder if that didn't occur in the "Dungeons and Dragons" episode from season one, while Derek and his squad were in the interrogation house. Those bands might have been from Derek's squad who were operating out of John's bunker at the time.
Zack has indicated that we don't know how long Derek and his squad were in the house - it could have been weeks or months - time enough for Cameron to get caught and reprogrammed. We don't know how long she was with John before Derek was released. The time line is considerably confused but this would make sense.
It would also be mortifying for Derek if he knew that the capture of his squad led directly to the death of Allison, by exposing Allison's trap for Cameron, if he knew Allison, as he probably did if they were both operating out of John's bunker.
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Jan 5, 2009 10:17:48 GMT -5
I've been disappointed with Derek's limited use in S2. Everyone was so excited when he was made a regular cast member. It seemed logical that he'd step in as a mentor to John. We got a few minutes of mentoring in Goodbye to All That and then it was goodbye to Derek.
Brian Green must be extremely frustrated. There's so much his character could be doing. He's got first hand knowledge of the various Terminator models, HK's etc. Men died developing tactics to identify and fight those things. That knowledge needs to be passed on to John. Instead he's off shagging Jesse. What a waste.
I've just about given up trying to figure out this show. There's no effort given to training John. The most skilled human resistance fighter is absent as Sarah foolishly charges into a large building without even phoning anyone.
I hope they start using Derek soon. Season 2 is almost 2/3 done and Derek is nearly invisible in most episodes. Fans love his character and he could be part of a cohesive team that has some chance of fighting skynet.
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Feb 21, 2009 18:21:37 GMT -5
Derek had a chance to shine in Desert Cantos.
Derek came face to face with one of the nightmares from the future. HK's, he's been hunted and possibly captured by one of those things. His reaction should have been stark terror and visceral. I can't think of anything more terrifying to a victim of the Terminator labor camps. Yet, Derek's reaction - nothing.
I see a lost opportunity with Derek. He should be furious to see prototype skynet camps and HK's in a pre-Judgment Day world. To think the world could be enslaved even earlier should light a fire in Derek. He's just now enjoying a world free of Skynet and now, he sees its ugly roots? Derek should be even more fired up than Sarah.
|
|
k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
|
Post by k8ie on Feb 24, 2009 17:24:30 GMT -5
I think he was stunned... I'm okay with utterly "OMFG, is that really..." being his expression with a side of sickened. They're all gobsmacked, except Sarah, who's sort of quietly grim about it. I expect to see Derek's attitude change more in the next eps but one thing I think you're not considering (I may be reading your post wrong) is the extent to which Derek may believe (rightly or wrongly) that this is something he's brought down on them by killing Andy Goode that's tempering his reaction.
Derek's not as far along the evolutionary ladder visa vi fighting Skynet as Sarah Connor. He's only starting to realize, as Sarah was forced to in the pilot, that stopping Skynet isn't some knot you can just cut through. Skynet's a hydra and for every head you cut off, it can seem like at least two spring up to take its place.
I have to believe that Derek truly believed that killing Andy Goode and the others would stop Judgement Day. It doesn't justify it to me but I can understand the choice. I think Derek's been pissy and critical of Sarah because he needed to believe that she was wrong because if she's right (and we knew she was) he's messed up bad. He's been coming to that realization over the past two episodes and I see his reaction to the drone as being part genuine shock and part sick realization that the situation is worse than he imagined. wanted to believe.
|
|
|
Post by allergygal on Feb 24, 2009 19:07:10 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with your take on Derek, but I hadn't applied that to his reaction about the drone (which I took to just be a moment of shock — like John's too). Good call. And now that I'm thinking along those lines, Desert Cantos also gave us the "I'll handle it", "you always do" exchange between him and Sarah, which fits in with that same idea. He had the realization in Complications that he has in fact changed the future and I think he's well aware now that it might not have been for the better.
|
|
|
Post by isaac039 on Mar 2, 2009 13:16:12 GMT -5
That is an interesting observation, and I hadn't noticed. He certainly has changed things, but he seems to think that Sarah is wrong more than right. I hope we see more development on his character in the coming episodes, although the next one looks to be more Cameron/Riley centric.
|
|
schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
|
Post by schmacky on Mar 4, 2009 18:03:13 GMT -5
I made my very first vid for Derek. It focuses on what his motivation is - Kyle. Derek went back through time with the thought that he could prevent Skynet and save his brother from his fate. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfwkDwZDiWQThere's so much I think about this whole situation.. with Derek and his brother. What he thinks about his brother's love/infatuation with Sarah Connor that ended up getting him killed. And I of course can never express such things in words but I can do so visually. So instead of writing it all out, there's the vid
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Mar 5, 2009 0:55:22 GMT -5
Wow, another great video Schmacky! Nice job explaining Derek's character and his motivation. Interesting that Jesse didn't make the clip. Getting laid isn't part of experiencing the world before J-day? ;D Just kidding. I agree, Derek came back to try and make things better for Kyle.
karma
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Apr 7, 2009 8:27:49 GMT -5
Alan Sepinwall's blog has an update about Derek's death: www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/04/terminator_adam_raised_a_cain.htmlHere is the update: ------- AS: I contacted Toni Graphia, who wrote "Adam Raised a Cain," to ask who came up with the idea to bump off Derek in such a cold manner, and she said it was Friedman's: TG: "As far as killing Derek, what I can tell you is that my boss Josh Friedman, whom I greatly respect for his instincts to "go against the grain" of traditional television, was the one who gave the mandate that Derek's death be true to life -- shocking, quick, with no time for tears. If I had even hinted at writing a big speech or heroic sacrifice, I would have been banned from the Warner Bros lot! LOL. Sarah's getting arrested was something I pushed for in the episode -- I was dying to see that "perp walk" and believe the fans would appreciate it too. Whenever something got cut, I would say, "as long as Sarah does the perp walk, I'm good." Killing Derek was Josh's idea and the way it was portrayed was exactly how he wanted -- the most realistic and therefore the most gut-wrenching and sad in its shocking simplicity. Yes, it's different than how deaths of main characters are usually portrayed, but to the credit of the Fox execs, they trust Josh's strong vision for the show and it has helped make Sarah Connor a unique experience."
Personally, I think killing Derek was a poor decision unless the show ends at S2. Derek was the one solid connection to the future and John's only family besides Sarah. The characters depths had never been properly explored. None of this matters if the show ends. I loved the show in S1. But, TSCC was weaker before Derek was added. I remember threads discussing this last year. Sarah, John and Cameron weren't enough to carry the show. Cameron doesn't have 'casual' conversations. That left only John and Sarah to carry dialogue and they aren't exactly talkative either. That's why they added Derek, Kacy and Riley. The damage is done. Lena and Brian were the most seasoned actors working on TSCC. TPTB have screwed themselves if a miracle happens and we get a S3. Hitting the giant reset button now will only make it worse. They shouldn't use time travel to fix this. It would be lame and turn off even more fans.
|
|