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Riley
Sept 17, 2008 12:28:04 GMT -5
Post by Derek Reese on Sept 17, 2008 12:28:04 GMT -5
1) John may have attempted to push her away for a few seconds, but the scene prior, where John was clearly looking on at all those couples of teens clearly indictated that John was interested in a relationship.
2) John's life did mix in high school last season - at the museum Sarkassian's men was following them through the museum and was ready to kill John as the situation dictated but Cameron got to him first.
3) In defense of Riley, we've only seen so very few details on her at this point. Just that she's a high school student with an eccentric personality. There could easily be more buried beneath the surface and intelligence can be more than useful when it comes down to the situation.
4) No matter what route John takes. It doesn't matter who they're around. Everyone pretty much gets caught up in the world.
5) John is going to do what he wants. Doesn't matter what his mother thinks. Doesn't matter what the world dictates. He's going to get other people involved in his life. Some will live. Some will die. It's the way of his world. He's more than aware of that and clearly he's preparing himself as well. Everyone is a liablity in the Connor's life, no matter where they fall in the chain.
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Riley
Sept 17, 2008 14:54:01 GMT -5
Post by allergygal on Sept 17, 2008 14:54:01 GMT -5
So far not liking her at all. They didn't even try to ease her into John's life. She just barged right in, ignoring that he initially didn't seem interested and tried to brush her off. Then she ignores the rather icy reception she got from mom and "sis" and not only stays, but stays the night to boot? Who does that? I keep hearing this over and over again. I'll tell you who acts like that: high school girls. Maybe guys just don't realize how much girls pursue you in high school. If a girl likes a boy, it takes more than an icy reception to stop her from the chase. Riley may have been more forward than some, but I didn't find her actions to be that unusual for someone with her personality. And it obviously worked. John tried to blow her off in that first scene together, but by the second scene (at the food truck), she'd already won him over. Spending the night was a WTF moment, but I'm sure Sarah didn't realize Riley stayed the night and Riley obviously has some parent issues. I'm sure we'll find out more about that in time. I kind of hope not, but it's certainly possible that she was sent there to influence John. That was kind of the point of: SARAH: Now is not the time for this. JOHN: Now is not the time? Well when is the time, for me I mean, to live my life? The curse of being a Connor (from Sarah's perspective) is you don't get personal happiness. So it's either a lesson John's going to learn the hard way or he'll find a way to make it work despite being a Connor. I'm kind of curious to see how it plays out.
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k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
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Riley
Sept 18, 2008 12:22:21 GMT -5
Post by k8ie on Sept 18, 2008 12:22:21 GMT -5
I'll tell you who acts like that: high school girls. Maybe guys just don't realize how much girls pursue you in high school. That's no lie. And it's not just in high school. Guys can be seriously oblivious. Sarah was busy getting head-tripped by jerky plant supervisor guy, standing around in a paper gown trying not to think about everything she'd ever read about fallout-related cancers (remember all those books about the Manhattan Project?). I think it may have been one of the handfull of times in the last 16 years when John's whereabouts and company wasn't her foremost concern. That and the people around you tend to die young. I'm sure that's a lesson, Sarah's still hoping to keep John from getting a real good look at just yet. ETA: I liked Riley. I like the promise of a completely normal sort of freakshow entering John's life. BTW - both Bibiana (and Vibiana, I'm not entirely sure which she said) were early Christian martyrs. That can't be a good omen.
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Riley
Sept 22, 2008 10:29:47 GMT -5
Post by tzigone on Sept 22, 2008 10:29:47 GMT -5
I'm hoping for the latter. A John Connor who lives the mission, but doesn't live a life, isn't a John Connor I want. The only aspect of T3 I liked was that John had someone in the future. He wasn't alone. I buy it, too. People still meet, make friends, fall in love, etc., no matter what is happening in the world. I don't want John to end up as emotionally screwed up as Sarah (whom I love, btw - just not what I want for John).
However, just because he can have that - love, friendships, etc. - doesn't mean his life will ever be normal. Those people that he connects to will have to come into his world, if it's going to mean anything (because it's all a lie if they don't know the truth, so the relationship isn't "real" in a way). I'm good with that. I want to see more people fighting for the future.
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Riley
Sept 23, 2008 1:07:24 GMT -5
Post by Derek Reese on Sept 23, 2008 1:07:24 GMT -5
The thing is John's just entitled to some sense of normalacy at this point at the rest. The war isn't that prominent yet and there's plenty of time for living, learning and love. I don't honestly blame John since Riley puts a smile on his face. He's entitled to those moments as much as the rest and thus far Riley has been the type of girl to think outside of the typical box. Riley seems to be something different in his life, when it comes down to it.
The threats out there are a given. He's been raised on that from day one. It's engrained within his head.
As for the lying situation, thus far John's been honest with her about things to a point, but one way or another a Terminator is going to getting into the middle of the situation. Something that could have happened tonight, while they were at the mall together, but Artie only went after him.
It seems to be the both of them are being pretty straightforward with one another thus far exception of the "sister" cover for Cameron.
I'm also a fan of the future where John's married. I wasn't thrilled with the concept at first, but I've become a fan of it over the years. The prior films never made mention of it, but it was always a possibility.
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equustel
Refugee
noise for your eyes
Posts: 26
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Riley
Sept 26, 2008 10:35:54 GMT -5
Post by equustel on Sept 26, 2008 10:35:54 GMT -5
Me too. As much as I wasn't a fan of Claire Daines in T3, I find myself rather happy that the Kate Brewster character's been kept intact for T4 (and that we have the lovely Bryce Dallas Howard playing her opposite Bale). John strikes me as the type who needs that sort of direct connection with someone to keep him level and focused; she's also a more imminent and individualized example of what he's fighting for (which I think Riley might be the precursor of, if she gets all tangled up in the Connor mess).
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 5:52:15 GMT -5
Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 28, 2008 5:52:15 GMT -5
I'm not crazy about the Kate Brewster concept being revived for the new Terminator movie series. While the idea of Connor having a wife is not far-fetched, I think it seriously detracts from te concept of having future John be this sort of mythical character. On the other hand, if in the TV series, it turns out that his only future friend and/or "lover" is Cameron, I'd be delirious, because that would be SO much more interesting than just him having a human wife.
Josh wants a lot of Christian references in this show, kudos to the person above who spotted the "St.. Bibiana" reference. Wikipedia refers to this person as a "Roman Virgin and Martyr".
Heh, somehow I don't buy Riley being a virgin, not looking the way she does and being as forward as she is! John probably is a virgin, however. It's amazing that he really admitted to Riley never having brought a girl home before - talk about socially inept! You NEVER admit your limitations to your potential girl, dude! Go read "The Game" about the expert pick up artists! Get some training!
On the other hand, Wikipedia also says: "The above mentioned Saint Bibiana (of the 4th century) should not be confused with Saint Vibiana (of the 3rd century), who is the patroness of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles." Well, that kinda explains the school name, doesn't it? OTOH, she was a virgin and a martyr, too, but apparently less is known about her than the other Bibiana.
Man, I hope Josh doesn't get ridiculous with all this Christian stuff, Richard T. Jones notwithstanding! . We don't have to get hit on the head to know that the Terminator franchise is a "Jesus and Mary" story. Sheesh!
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 8:22:15 GMT -5
Post by tzigone on Sept 28, 2008 8:22:15 GMT -5
Not to me - I loved the concept of Kate and would loathe John not having any human connection. Plus, I like the humans v. Skynet concept far better than humans + Terminataors v. Skynet. I'm way past tired-out on the "good Terminator" thing - T2, T3, now SCC. Don't really care to see it yet again or extended to a greater degree.
I have no opinon as to her virginity, but she's not extremely forward. It's not like she walked up to the guy and stripped off her clothes. She talked to and flirted with a guy at school. She called a guy on the phone. These are not huge things. I'll agree she's not shy or reserved, but she's not really that forward to me. I think John was just as forward with Cheri.
I don't think John's even kissed a girl since foster care. I mean, Sarah seems okay enough with him dating, pre-Cromartie, but I just don't get the vibe he's got much of that in his life. Then again, he's certainly open enough to the possibilities, so maybe he has had a girlfriend or two. I agree on the virginity - he seems to have a desire to tell people the truth, which he can't. So I don't really see him likely going that far without telling her the truth (anyone seen the movie "Running on Empty" - I could see John similar to that about sex).
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shmi
Refugee
Posts: 11
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 8:46:58 GMT -5
Post by shmi on Sept 28, 2008 8:46:58 GMT -5
Plus, I like the humans v. Skynet concept far better than humans + Terminataors v. Skynet. I'm way past tired-out on the "good Terminator" thing I agree. The impossible odds in human vs. Terminator is just more fun. The harder the fight, the more rewarding the victory is to watch. I agree. John was just as forward with Cheri. She just turned him down.
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equustel
Refugee
noise for your eyes
Posts: 26
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 10:40:22 GMT -5
Post by equustel on Sept 28, 2008 10:40:22 GMT -5
Perhaps, but I think that may be just what John himself wants: to de-mythify himself. After all, he's grown up all his life knowing the myth that is John Connor, and I think he wants/needs to humanize it - for his own sanity. This is very in-character. He doesn't care to preserve other people's ideas of him: we see several examples of this already in T:SCC, where he makes decisions others never would, and that have a very high probability of "upsetting people" (quoth Cameron). He imuplsively goes after the coltan in "Heavy Metal". He comes up with the risky idea of putting Cameron's chip inside the traffic network. He saves Cameron when he should have killed her. And in "Dungeons & Dragons", we learn he was the one who first decided to reprogram terminators.
Taking this into account, I don't think he's very worried about retaining his mythical status. As his impulsive relationship with Riley shows, he wants to be a human being - and if humanity is what he is fighting for, he most certainly should be concerned about preserving this side of himself. How else will he ever have the drive to protect humanity on the whole?
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 11:24:32 GMT -5
Post by tzigone on Sept 28, 2008 11:24:32 GMT -5
Really? I think Terminators helping him demythifies him much, much more. Instead of this amazing, unbelievable, impossible victory for humanity over impossible odds, it's "oh, the Terminators did it." My least favorite aspect of T:SCC.
A wife doesn't make him less phenomenal, less amazing, less anything, to me. Then again, I've always been a sucker for heroes with human connections. Best summed for me ages ago in the flippant "A slayer with friends and family."
I agree. And have always loved that John cares the individual as well as the whole of humanity. Moreover, I think the show has re-enforced that losing one's humanity is not good. He needs to be part of humanity, not set apart from it. It's not that he has to have a wife. But he needs people. People who care about John the man, not just the leader. And people that he can confide in and be weak in front of. Him being disconnected from all people just is not good to me.
Responding in John thread.
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 15:11:32 GMT -5
Post by Derek Reese on Sept 28, 2008 15:11:32 GMT -5
Keep things focused on Riley in here. John Connor discussion should pretty much focused in the John Connor thread.
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Riley
Sept 28, 2008 21:35:46 GMT -5
Post by richardstevenhack on Sept 28, 2008 21:35:46 GMT -5
I'll just continue to disagree on a future wife, but it's not that big a deal. It's not part of the series anyway, in my view. I don't think we're ever going to see a future John, with or without a wife or Cameron. I do think all this high school and girl friend stuff, while apparently an attempt to humanize Connor, just gets in the way of the overall concept of man vs. machine.
Riley, on the other hand. I didn't mean to suggest she was a slut! I just meant to say that she's not likely a virgin, and that's good for John, since two virgins trying to figure out what to do is likely to be stressful for both of them! ;D ;D ;D
I really don't see her lasting much longer than Cheri Westin, however. If you're trying to push the Skynet war along, there isn't going to be a lot of room for a girl friend floating around on the side. As an aside, I also think the odds of them remaining in their current house past this season are probably nil.
If you're going to push a grim action show, there's not much room for long term romance arcs or "normal living". It's not impossible, but sooner or later either Riley has to be brought up to speed with what's going on or she's going to have to get killed off.
Look how fast they killed off Michelle once she finally found out what's up. She didn't last a day. And I don't think Riley's more significant to the series than Charley Dixon. They bumped off Michelle to change Charley's characterization. I can easily see them getting John involved with Riley, then killing her off to advance John's characterization.
I just see Riley as "filler" for the purpose of advancing - or delaying - Connor's evolution into the future Connor, as well as boosting ratings by having another hot interesting girl on the show for a season besides Lena and Summer.
I wouldn't mind if she stays around for more than one season, but I trust Josh more or less and I don't think he's turning this into a soap opera. So I think Riley is not long for this world.
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Riley
Oct 8, 2008 14:43:22 GMT -5
Post by rove3 on Oct 8, 2008 14:43:22 GMT -5
I really don't see her lasting much longer than Cheri Westin, however. If you're trying to push the Skynet war along, there isn't going to be a lot of room for a girl friend floating around on the side. As an aside, I also think the odds of them remaining in their current house past this season are probably nil. If you're going to push a grim action show, there's not much room for long term romance arcs or "normal living". It's not impossible, but sooner or later either Riley has to be brought up to speed with what's going on or she's going to have to get killed off. Look how fast they killed off Michelle once she finally found out what's up. She didn't last a day. And I don't think Riley's more significant to the series than Charley Dixon. They bumped off Michelle to change Charley's characterization. I can easily see them getting John involved with Riley, then killing her off to advance John's characterization. I just see Riley as "filler" for the purpose of advancing - or delaying - Connor's evolution into the future Connor I wholeheartedly agree. I was afraid when the casting decisions were made that this Riley character would just end up being filler at best and so far I haven't seen anything to make me think differently. IMO she brings out the worst in John. When she's around he acts like a petulant toddler throwing a tantrum because he can't get his way. I think it is no coincidence that in these last two episodes, episodes where Riley has been noticeably absent, we get a return to a John who is taking some independent action and acting like someone who might actually grow up to be the future saviour of mankind. And seriously, after Derek's final line, one loaded with history and meaning, "we all die for you" how are we supposed to buy that John would ever go window shopping with Riley again? That line makes Riley's presence in the story all the more ridiculous IMO. I just think there are better ways to show that John has a connection to other humans than by giving him a so-called girlfriend. There have been serial killers who have had wives and children while burying the bodies of their victims in the backyard. I hardly think that makes them connected to the human race in any positive way. Derek's simple story of seeing the deer with Kyle was a great way to show Kyle's humanity, pre-Sarah, in a much more effective way than anything that has been shown so far with John in relation to Riley.
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Riley
Oct 8, 2008 18:03:27 GMT -5
Post by Derek Reese on Oct 8, 2008 18:03:27 GMT -5
While I'll admit I do agree with the filler points, I'll continue to disagree about the weight of another female in John's life. The character needs to experience some sort of relationship outside of the Connor household and if he needs to lose someone else outside, so be it. As a character he's entitled to at least have an experience or at least consider a relationship beyond the Connor 's as a whole. On top of that there's a slim chance if things play out, they may dodge the J-Day bullet.
Considering John's own current stance, he's at an age, where he would go after a girlfriend and experiment with his life. It's simple teen dynamics in play with the situation as a whole. While Derek's examples are suiting reminders of the world, it's not getting out there and experiencing the world as a whole. It doesn't make-up for the time he could spend with people and again just being around the family locked in a house, where people are watching your every move and expecting you to become this pivotal figure.
While it's not necessary for John to have a girlfriend, at his current age its at least suiting to see him considering the fact. As a fan I would have prefered to see John connect more with someone like Cheri from Season 1, but things happen and I do like that Riley is there to give John a taste of something different and John deserves that.
To put it simply I'm pro-Riley and pro-John making the change into the future leader of the Resistance.
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