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Post by rove3 on Sept 17, 2008 9:45:12 GMT -5
I'm not very savvy when it comes to knowing how the networks figure the ratings, but surely in a world where the audience is no longer chained to their tv sets (thanks to DVR/Tivo and internet downloading) they do not rely solely on the outdated nielson ratings to judge how many are watching a particular show?
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Post by Ronnie on Sept 17, 2008 10:52:06 GMT -5
Ok this hurts a little: tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/17/early-ratings-report-fox-dominates-with-house-and-fringe-90210-holds-up/5156Update: Amazing retention for Fringe holds: 13.363 million! House had 14.409 million and a 5.6/16, and 4.9/15 in the 18-49 and 18-34 demographics respectively. Fringe held up in the demos as well with a 5.2/13 and a 4.5/12. Wow. I expect next week really tells the tale on Fringe. These numbers are better than I thought. While there was a drop off from the 1st half hour to the second and it wasn’t small, it wasn’t as big as I expected. 13.948 million in the first vs. 12.778 mil in the second. Big Brother’s finale managed to hold up well at 9pm despite this with 7.63 million and a 2.7 among 18-49 year olds.
The season premiere of House pulled in a 9.0/15 household rating/share in the early metered market reports (please remember these are just an early slice and subject to change). Fringe appears to have benefited greatly from the return of Dr. House greatly scoring an 8.6/13. If those numbers hold up (and we’ll see) when we get the fast affiliate data, that’s an outstanding retention of the lead-in audience out of House.
I’m drinking the Kool-Aide somewhat as what I watched last night, although slightly timeshifted was House and Fringe.
It looks like Wipeout has cooled off massively down to a 3.3/5 in its season finale. The CW’s 90210 scored a 2.7/4 and week two of Privileged netted a 2.1/3. If 90210’s numbers hold up, that is better than expected from my point of view as last week it had a 2.8 household rating in the early metered market ratings, so the drop of a tenth of a ratings point doesn’t seem steep considering House’s premiere.
Bill will have the full overnight ratings post up shortly after we’ve seen the fast affiliate data, including total viewers and 18-49/18-34 year old demographics.
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cyadon
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A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Sept 17, 2008 11:26:22 GMT -5
At the same time, there are other things that need to be considered. Robert Seidman, one of the primary TV By The Numbers contributors said: Hardly a power House relative to last year when season four [of House] premiered to 18.31 million. This episode would have ranked as the next to the least viewed episode of last year’s numbers during a strike-riddled season. Everything is down by 3-4 million viewers. The Writer's Strike, the ascendancy of cable networks, DVR, the internet, and so much else out there is killing prime time network television. I try to find as much context as I can for every number and statistic I read. Everything is down and so much is getting viewed on the internet and iTunes and being covered by DVDs nowadays. Just Monday the same site had an article about how the show "How I Met Your Mother", while getting mediocre ratings, was looking to make in the hundreds of millions of syndication and DVD sales, so kept getting renewed anyways.
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Post by jdub87 on Sept 17, 2008 12:20:36 GMT -5
The old fashioned way of watching prime time TV is dying for sure. The problem is that Nielsen is so slow in adapting and that could cost SCC unfortunately....
I hope that Fox is of the same mindset as those who keep How I Met Your Mother on the air, but that show isn't nearly as pricey as this one, is it?
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 17, 2008 12:32:20 GMT -5
Ok this hurts a little: tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/17/early-ratings-report-fox-dominates-with-house-and-fringe-90210-holds-up/5156Update: Amazing retention for Fringe holds: 13.363 million! House had 14.409 million and a 5.6/16, and 4.9/15 in the 18-49 and 18-34 demographics respectively. Fringe held up in the demos as well with a 5.2/13 and a 4.5/12. Wow. I expect next week really tells the tale on Fringe. These numbers are better than I thought. While there was a drop off from the 1st half hour to the second and it wasn’t small, it wasn’t as big as I expected. 13.948 million in the first vs. 12.778 mil in the second. Big Brother’s finale managed to hold up well at 9pm despite this with 7.63 million and a 2.7 among 18-49 year olds.
The season premiere of House pulled in a 9.0/15 household rating/share in the early metered market reports (please remember these are just an early slice and subject to change). Fringe appears to have benefited greatly from the return of Dr. House greatly scoring an 8.6/13. If those numbers hold up (and we’ll see) when we get the fast affiliate data, that’s an outstanding retention of the lead-in audience out of House.
I’m drinking the Kool-Aide somewhat as what I watched last night, although slightly timeshifted was House and Fringe.
It looks like Wipeout has cooled off massively down to a 3.3/5 in its season finale. The CW’s 90210 scored a 2.7/4 and week two of Privileged netted a 2.1/3. If 90210’s numbers hold up, that is better than expected from my point of view as last week it had a 2.8 household rating in the early metered market ratings, so the drop of a tenth of a ratings point doesn’t seem steep considering House’s premiere.
Bill will have the full overnight ratings post up shortly after we’ve seen the fast affiliate data, including total viewers and 18-49/18-34 year old demographics.
That is brutal. If only this show were on Wednesday, I can't help but feel as though it could ATLEAST pull in 7 million viewers. I really don't think Fox understands how many people are in love with football (even I will be watching my Browns over Terminator when they're on MNF). If Fox is smart, they'd move the show to a new day after the MLB Playoffs, instead of just pulling the plug (which is what I'm really afraid of).
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Post by Erika on Sept 17, 2008 12:53:33 GMT -5
Chris you just pointed out the problem. Fox has gone under the complete belief that this show only caters to men - so they've promoted it only FOR/TO men. Guess who watches football? MEN! They should be running girly oriented promos during daytime talk shows - promos w/ Sarah struggling to connect w/ her son. They should have Lena, Summer, Shirley, BAG, Thomas all on Oprah. They should promote the show to WOMEN. More than 1/2 of the fansites out there for this show are run by WOMEN. Grrrr - anyways I put together a post/tab on the main page that lists out everywhere you can purchase/watch the show legally. Do your part, if you DVRed it, buy it also on iTunes. Click HERE.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 17, 2008 13:13:16 GMT -5
Chris you just pointed out the problem. Fox has gone under the complete belief that this show only caters to men - so they've promoted it only FOR/TO men. Guess who watches football? MEN! They should be running girly oriented promos during daytime talk shows - promos w/ Sarah struggling to connect w/ her son. They should have Lena, Summer, Shirley, BAG, Thomas all on Oprah. They should promote the show to WOMEN. More than 1/2 of the fansites out there for this show are run by WOMEN. Grrrr - anyways I put together a post/tab on the main page that lists out everywhere you can purchase/watch the show legally. Do your part, if you DVRed it, buy it also on iTunes. Click HERE.Do you get the feeling that Fox doesn't care if this show succeeds or not? The reason I ask that is, I look around on MySpace, AIM, Facebook, etc. and there are Fringe and House ads EVERYWHERE. Literally, no matter which program I open or site I visit, there's always ads for the shows Fox wants to see succeed, but now that they've gotten Terminator's premiere out the way, you don't see jack for that. Anyway, I couldn't agree more with you, Erika. I'm hooked on this show because of the women (and not just because of their looks). It is nice to see a woman like Lena play such an iconic role as Sarah Connor and she does it nicely. Summer couldn't be any more spot on as Cameron. Plus, the best part about this show is the natural look of these girls. They're not some overly-tan, bubble gum, teeny-bopper looking girls. These are women who actually put in a lot of physical work into their bodys and mental work into their acting capabilites. The usage of Busy Phillips was brilliant and how often is it that you actually see a pregnant woman on television anymore? I don't know, it just really irratates me that a show this brilliant is only pulling in 5 - 6 million viewers.
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cyadon
Major
A Random Sci-Fi Geek
Posts: 612
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Post by cyadon on Sept 17, 2008 13:14:42 GMT -5
I DVR the show and watch it within the three day window. I also watch it on Hulu and Fox. I make sure I reset my cablemodem for a new IP each time, too. Even if you're not wanting to watch it again, set the website to play as you go to bed and turn off your speakers. Every bit helps.
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Post by Erika on Sept 17, 2008 13:20:54 GMT -5
Fox has been promoting the hell out of TSCC - they just did the whole Golden Apple event, they've got a deal running w/ Dodge, Garret was just on TV Guide's Hollywood 4-1-1 yesterday (Kate will have that interview up in a day or two.) Ads for the show do come up before it premieres. It just feels like they're late getting into figuring out how to broaden the fanbase. Someone finally got the brain child idea to put Summer in a Women's Health magazine and BAG (Mr. Hottie) was on Ellen (a women's daytime TV show) but the stars should be out in force on the other women's daytime and morning talk shows...not just Fox affiliates. Want to further boarded the audience? Why in the HELL hasn't any tattoo magazines talked to Lena, Thomas, and BAG? We'd be glad to pick up viewers from the WWF crowd who'd love the action. BTW I'm forming a huge rant to post on the main site if you haven't guessed
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Post by vicheron on Sept 17, 2008 13:23:26 GMT -5
The problem here is that Fox does not produce the show. WB produces the show so they get most of the money from syndication, DVD, merchandise, online viewing, etc.
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Post by Deep Art Frummy on Sept 17, 2008 13:25:02 GMT -5
The WWE is so terrible these days, too. It would be awesome to steal away some of their viewers.
Meh, I guess you're right about Fox promoting the show. But I just feel the effort is overlooked due to the constant Fringe and House promotion. Yeah, I realize House is their money maker, but how is Terminator ever supposed to take off if it fails one time and you don't give it another shot? Anyway, let's just hope next week's episode can just get back into the 6 million range for starters.
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Post by Derek Reese on Sept 17, 2008 13:33:00 GMT -5
The problem here is that Fox does not produce the show. WB produces the show so they get most of the money from syndication, DVD, merchandise, online viewing, etc. Exactly.
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Post by Ronnie on Sept 17, 2008 13:33:28 GMT -5
The WWE is so terrible these days, too. It would be awesome to steal away some of their viewers. Meh, I guess you're right about Fox promoting the show. But I just feel the effort is overlooked due to the constant Fringe and House promotion. Yeah, I realize House is their money maker, but how is Terminator ever supposed to take off if it fails one time and you don't give it another shot? Anyway, let's just hope next week's episode can just get back into the 6 million range for starters. When I was on my hunt for TSCC billboards in Los Angeles about 8 days before the Premiere, I realized that there was nothing. I drove around for a good hour and half, and it's funny because I began to realize that bus stop posters were all of the same 20, repeated over and over again for the same Movies/TV shows. House, Fringe, Pushing Daisies, Heroes, Gossip Girl, etc. I saw over and over again. I didn't see a single billboard or bus stop poster for TSCC. Season 1? We had billboards, bus stop posters everywhere, and even billboards on buses. Seems like the word for Season 2 hadn't gotten out unless you really knew where to look.
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Post by Big Brother on Sept 17, 2008 13:48:43 GMT -5
The problem here is that Fox does not produce the show. WB produces the show so they get most of the money from syndication, DVD, merchandise, online viewing, etc. You hit the nail on the head here. FOX really only cares about making money off selling ads for the airings on FOX itself. So it doesn't matter if the show will make a mint in syndication, overseas sales, DVD's, online, licensed merchandise and such, since FOX will see little or nothing from such sales. If WB thinks it can make enough money off of those, they MIGHT cut FOX a sweeter deal on the initial broadcast license, but WB is out to make as much money off FOX as they can, while they can, and also make as much profit in total off the show as they can, so they're unlikely to charge much less than the show costs to produce. So it doesn't matter if TSCC wins its night or its demographic or its timeslot. What matters is raw numbers of eyeballs watching the show and its ads first and foremost, with the demographic mix of those eyeballs a secondary (but important secondary) concern. 8 million viewers for TSCC compared to 10 or 12 for another show in the same timeslot is still better than 6 million viewers compared to 4 or 5 for another show. And FOX would actually PREFER if the demographics were as narrow as possible (while still getting a big total number) so they can sell the ads to better-targeted marketing departments. A beer company would prefer 8 million men to 4 million men and 6 million women in the audience. A dish soap company would prefer 8 million women to 4 million women and 6 million men in the audience. Advertisers get charged by total number of eyeballs, but they target their ads to specific slices of the viewing public, so they'd prefer to not have to pay for eyeballs of people who aren't in the intended market for their product. They'd rather have 8 million people in their target demographic and no one else, to 4 million people in their target demo and 10 million outside it, because while they have to pay for those 10 million others, darn few of them are likely to buy their products. If you really want to help the show, make notes for who's advertising during the FOX airings, then go out and buy some of their products...then write to the makers of the products and say you bought them after seeing the ads on TSCC. That will do far more for the show than watching on Hulu or buying it on iTunes or even being a Neilsen family and watching it on FOX. That's not to say that watching it on Hulu and such doesn't help. It does. But WB gets that money, and sadly they don't determine if the show gets renewed for a third season or gets picked up for a full 22-ep second season. FOX does. And they will make that decision based on how much money they can squeeze out of advertisers for commercials. If you want to write to FOX, tell them about the ads you've seen on the show, and the products you bought. Also mention any other FOX shows you've started watching after seeing ads for them on TSCC, that will help a lot too. Heck, I almost never watched FOX until they started showing House, and I probably wouldn't have watched Fringe if I hadn't heard the buzz via TSCC fandom and seen the ads on TSCC. I plan to write FOX and tell them so.
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Post by vicheron on Sept 17, 2008 13:59:34 GMT -5
Actually, WB is probably already selling the show to Fox at a significant loss. That's generally the way it works since the producers of a show looks more for long term profits like with DVD's and syndication. For example, if the producers of a show think that it has a good chance of reaching the magical 100 episodes needed to make the most money from syndication then they'll be willing to take a big hit when selling the show to a network.
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