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Post by Hollow Crown on Feb 17, 2009 0:09:10 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything k8ie and allergygal said. It's like they went into my head and wrote down exactly what I was thinking.. but in a much more articulate way than I ever could. I am baffled when I hear complaints and moans about this episode. It truly was wonderful. Co-sign. 'The Good Wound' IS the definition of The SARAH CONNOR Chronicles.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 17, 2009 4:07:37 GMT -5
This teaching of John Henry is bound to backfire, right? It's just too easy for Ellison to breeze in and tell him that human life is sacred and have that solve everything. I suspect things are going to turn bad soon.
John Henry's question for God about why he didn't make humans with more ball and socket joints, was great fun, but there's something more to that. He has hinge joints too, but it was because he was designed to look and move like a human. If left to design his own body, it would clearly be different (and would utilize more ball and socket joints). I think this is the start of John Henry seeing machines as superior to man.
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Post by littleb on Feb 17, 2009 6:37:31 GMT -5
This teaching of John Henry is bound to backfire, right? It's just too easy for Ellison to breeze in and tell him that human life is sacred and have that solve everything. I suspect things are going to turn bad soon. I hope so. Ellison bugged me in this ep. So damn righteous. But, he was having doubts; unease at the Googling, unease at what John Henry might dig up (and rightly so considering the later consequences) and maybe, just maybe having doubts about his own ability as a father figure. What if the child rebels? JH is a child at the moment, the intonations in his voice, the playing with toys, everything is a wonder, everything is done in innocence. I can't help but suspect he's going to have a turbulent adolescence... His coming of age rebellion might run to something a little more than cutting his hair off and bitching at his mother. Excellent point. Might even lead to him doubting God as his creator and master - if he can't get a simple design right, how is he supposed to be the authority on everything else? Very reminiscent of Cavill in this week's BSG ep, ranting about how crap his human body was when the machine in him could have/should have been so much more perfect.
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Post by gothamite66 on Feb 17, 2009 9:17:27 GMT -5
I totally agree with everything k8ie and allergygal said. It's like they went into my head and wrote down exactly what I was thinking.. but in a much more articulate way than I ever could. I am baffled when I hear complaints and moans about this episode. It truly was wonderful. Agreed. I can't even begin to put into words my thoughts about this episode. All I can say is that this was one hell of an episode that's really been sticking with me.
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Post by allergygal on Feb 17, 2009 13:55:14 GMT -5
This teaching of John Henry is bound to backfire, right? It's just too easy for Ellison to breeze in and tell him that human life is sacred and have that solve everything. I suspect things are going to turn bad soon. I hope so. Ellison bugged me in this ep. So damn righteous. But, he was having doubts; unease at the Googling, unease at what John Henry might dig up (and rightly so considering the later consequences) and maybe, just maybe having doubts about his own ability as a father figure. What if the child rebels? JH is a child at the moment, the intonations in his voice, the playing with toys, everything is a wonder, everything is done in innocence. I can't help but suspect he's going to have a turbulent adolescence... His coming of age rebellion might run to something a little more than cutting his hair off and bitching at his mother. I agree — we're going to encounter a rebellious JH at some point. He really acted and sounded like a kid in this ep, didn't he? Maybe that's why it was so fun. So if JH sort of follows in John Connor's footsteps with the rebellion, I wonder if that means he'll find out what Catherine is "raising" him for and rebel against it. "I don't wanna be Skynet!!!" Being so damn righteous has been Ellison's problem all season. And no matter how much doubt he ever has about whether or not he should be helping Catherine with John Henry, it never seems to be enough to stop him. Excellent point. Might even lead to him doubting God as his creator and master - if he can't get a simple design right, how is he supposed to be the authority on everything else? Very reminiscent of Cavill in this week's BSG ep, ranting about how crap his human body was when the machine in him could have/should have been so much more perfect. Cavill is exactly what came to my mind too. It was rather cool that those eps aired on the same night, wasn't it?
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wb5
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Post by wb5 on Feb 17, 2009 14:37:14 GMT -5
I think we'd all already guessed that Sarah wasn't crazy about the 3 dots and she really had found a secret factory. That Sarah has found a secret factory is clear, but the connection between the 3 dots on the wall, and the UFO engines/UFO convention logo is still tenuous. Do we really think that the "writer" of the bloody wall deliberately used those dots to point Sarah's attention to the UFO convention? In such a non-obvious, confusing way? It's still possible that Sarah's obsession with the 3 dots was just that, an obsession, but by (unintended) coincidence it happened to lead her to something very important. Or do you not share my doubts on this?
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Post by allergygal on Feb 17, 2009 14:46:09 GMT -5
I think we'd all already guessed that Sarah wasn't crazy about the 3 dots and she really had found a secret factory. That Sarah has found a secret factory is clear, but the connection between the 3 dots on the wall, and the UFO engines/UFO convention logo is still tenuous. Do we really think that the "writer" of the bloody wall deliberately used those dots to point Sarah's attention to the UFO convention? In such a non-obvious, confusing way? It's still possible that Sarah's obsession with the 3 dots was just that, an obsession, but by (unintended) coincidence it happened to lead her to something very important. Or do you not share my doubts on this? Oh I agree. The 3 dots obsession led her to where she needed to go, but we still don't have a good explanation for why she latched onto the 3 dots in the first place. I'm assuming we're not done with that yet and that we'll get an explanation. I hope anyway. I'll be disappointed if we don't.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Feb 17, 2009 14:58:37 GMT -5
This teaching of John Henry is bound to backfire, right? It's just too easy for Ellison to breeze in and tell him that human life is sacred and have that solve everything. I suspect things are going to turn bad soon. It seems to me that part of TSCC's thematic palette is an exploration of the limitations of religion as a foundational belief system. The relationship of faith to morality to ethics is the basis of modern society but faith itself begins where reason ends. Faith is by its nature unproveable, as Aquinas said, "proof belies faith", which is why teaching a robot religion is probably a very, very bad idea. TSCC is a show that's in large part about what it means to be a parent - the sacrfices, the worry but also the responsibilty to teach your children to use their judgement well. The set-to between Derek and John in this episode is a perfect example - okay, John made a decision. Well here are the consequences, now understand what it is to live with a decision when it doesn't go you way. John's refusing to accept his mother's fiats anymore but he does rationally understand the rationale for them and it's the conflict between his desires and his reason that drives his character arc this season. But what happens when a computer comes up against the illogical? John Henry is already asking questions that Ellison can't answer. A crisis in faith can devastate a human being in all our fuzzy-thinking, illogical briliance. What happens when God doesn't answer John Henry's questions? AG/wb5 - I'm torn about the dots. On the one hand, it's probably more accessible TV if we get a concrete answer for why the dots caught Sarah's eye. OTOH, I like the line TSCC walks with Sarah's sanity - the possibility that the dots are nothing and it's Sarah's innate sense of the weird and wrong that takes her to the right place is intriguing - the idea that Sarah can be crazy and right at the same time is very interesting.
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Post by theturk on Feb 17, 2009 16:15:08 GMT -5
There was originally a scene in "Earthlings Welcome Here" that showed very clearly where the three dot obsession sprang from in Sarah's subconscious, but it didn't play onscreen the way we wanted it to. But by the end of the season, it should be pretty clear that the three dots didn't spring out of nowhere or represent some psychic intuition, but were much more a case of Sarah's subconscious telling her that a symbol was something important that she should be going after-- much how her subconscious used the image and memory of Kyle to reorganize her brain into thinking clearly and strategically even while in pain and under duress.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Feb 17, 2009 16:32:46 GMT -5
Awesome. Karma, Turk. Thanks for the intel.
You might have, uh, noticed we really like the episode. A lot. Possibly an unseemly amount in some quarters. ;D
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cyadon
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A Random Sci-Fi Geek
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Post by cyadon on Feb 17, 2009 16:35:23 GMT -5
Awesome. Karma, Turk. Thanks for the intel. You might have, uh, noticed we really like the episode. A lot. Possibly an unseemly amount in some quarters. ;D I do worry about you from time to time, k8ie. Then I remember you're ebil, and understand that's just your way. As for that scene, Turk, I would have loved to see it. I hope to see it find its way on to the Season 2 DVD set and see how it plays out for us folks who love things and extras like that.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Feb 17, 2009 16:54:13 GMT -5
I do worry about you from time to time, k8ie. Then I remember you're ebil, and understand that's just your way. Ebil has its privileges, boyo. In fact there's a list. Right under "may hunt fanboys for sport" comes "may gush insanely over good dialogue" - Manga Gratia per verba bonae donatum* The sound you hear is magister's shade weeping in the afterworld...That comes across very well in the initial hospital room scene, where Sarah is able to stand after Kyle appears.
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cyadon
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Post by cyadon on Feb 17, 2009 16:59:08 GMT -5
I do worry about you from time to time, k8ie. Then I remember you're ebil, and understand that's just your way. Ebil has its privileges, boyo. In fact there's a list. Right under "may hunt fanboys for sport" comes "may gush insanely over good dialogue" - Manga Gratia per verba bonae donatum* The sound you hear is magister's shade weeping in the afterworld...Hunting fanboys for sport isn't ebil. It's like spaying your cat. It's necessary for the public health. Yeah. Things felt like they were slowly coalescing until they came together to form head!Kyle. I wonder if, in head!Character land, head!Kyle has ever met head!Six.
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k8ie
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Post by k8ie on Feb 17, 2009 17:06:36 GMT -5
Hunting fanboys for sport isn't ebil. It's like spaying your cat. It's necessary for the public health. Cy, I never realized that you were in Junior Rodeo! More to the point, let's discuss the fact that Head!Kyle appears to believe in Levirite Marriage.
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Post by battlejuice on Feb 17, 2009 17:10:13 GMT -5
The one thing I'm left with after this show is how INSANELY CREEPY John Henry is.
If he starts killing and still has that child-like look on his face, I'm going to have nightmares for a long, long time.
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