terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
|
Post by terrasj on Feb 18, 2009 13:12:49 GMT -5
I would love to see that scene. I guess the barriers might go up again for Sarah though, she'd laid herself so open during that episode and she hasn't even had time to think about killing someone for the first time yet. Maybe if they both get absolutely wasted one night, truth will be told. Oh that would be interesting alright. Both drunk or getting drunk, then they have this moment of wierdness pass as they're about to hug or kiss from a supportive embrace and almost cross that boundry and just stare oddly before pulling back, saying 'this is getting weird' or something...
|
|
schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
|
Post by schmacky on Feb 18, 2009 13:20:31 GMT -5
After the couple of weeks they've had, they deserve to get sloshed one night and chat about all the good times they've had with Kyle... of course Sarah has maybe like two good times with him, but still.. good times. Wee
If... er, When we get a season 3, I think that'd be a good episode. one of the storylines could be that Derek and Sarah do get trashed and share memories of Kyle.. could flashback to Derek and Kyle as kids pre and post J-Day and flashback to Sarah and show some scenes of her two days NOT in the movie.. that would be interesting I think.
|
|
k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
|
Post by k8ie on Feb 18, 2009 15:19:20 GMT -5
When we get a season 3, I think that'd be a good episode. one of the storylines could be that Derek and Sarah do get trashed and share memories of Kyle.. could flashback to Derek and Kyle as kids pre and post J-Day and flashback to Sarah and show some scenes of her two days NOT in the movie.. that would be interesting I think. Very interesting. Although it's hard to imagine a moment when one of them wasn't delerious that either of them would drop their guard long enough to get drunk together. Actually, all the scenarios that come to mind are pretty horrific. I liked the sparky chemistry from Sarah and Derek butt heads in season one. I've missed Sarah Connor having someone in her own weight class to fight against - I hope TGW sees Derek and Sarah thrown together more often.
|
|
wb5
Private
Posts: 230
|
Post by wb5 on Feb 18, 2009 16:58:55 GMT -5
There was originally a scene in "Earthlings Welcome Here" that showed very clearly where the three dot obsession sprang from in Sarah's subconscious, but it didn't play onscreen the way we wanted it to. But by the end of the season, it should be pretty clear that the three dots didn't spring out of nowhere or represent some psychic intuition, but were much more a case of Sarah's subconscious telling her that a symbol was something important that she should be going after-- much how her subconscious used the image and memory of Kyle to reorganize her brain into thinking clearly and strategically even while in pain and under duress. I'm glad to read this. Thanks for the heads-up!
|
|
|
Post by littleb on Feb 19, 2009 7:28:03 GMT -5
When we get a season 3, I think that'd be a good episode. one of the storylines could be that Derek and Sarah do get trashed and share memories of Kyle.. A more likely scenario for these two (given the amount of injuries they collect between them) would be one of them smacked off their heads on morphine - truth will out under the influence! Absolutely. They share some of the best chemistry in the show and I think most of that comes from the fact that a lot of the time they're butting heads or Sarah's threatening to bust his. Can't wait to see what happens if/when Sarah finds out about Jesse... I hope Derek's still got his body armour on...
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Feb 19, 2009 20:45:56 GMT -5
I finally found time to watch this episode. I enjoyed most of it. I hated the cop/abuser angle. Sure, the doc was a victim of spousal abuse and that made her willing to help Sarah. But, making the Sheriff the abusive partner was just to convenient.
I didn't understand Weaver's killing spree. Her factory had been compromised. The employees were doing there jobs by clearing out and sanitizing the place. They would have setup a new factory somewhere else. Isn't that exactly what employees for Zeracorp are supposed to do? Yes, watching the T-1000 massacre people was pretty cool, but why did Weaver think it was necessary to murder her own employees?
I'm pretty ambivalent about Riley. I couldn't care less whether she bled out on the floor or not. John has no real chemistry with her at all. That kiss scene was cold and unappealing.
|
|
schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
|
Post by schmacky on Feb 19, 2009 20:51:33 GMT -5
I finally found time to watch this episode. I enjoyed most of it. I hated the cop/abuser angle. Sure, the doc was a victim of spousal abuse and that made her willing to help Sarah. But, making the Sheriff the abusive partner was just to convenient. I didn't understand Weaver's killing spree. Her factory had been compromised. The employees were doing there jobs by clearing out and sanitizing the place. They would have setup a new factory somewhere else. Isn't that exactly what employees for Zeracorp are supposed to do? Yes, watching the T-1000 massacre people was pretty cool, but why did Weaver think it was necessary to murder her own employees? Yeah, I didn't think the abuser needed to be the cop. It didn't really add anything to the episode. But, at the same time, that angle didn't bother me. It just wasn't needed. And Weaver thought it was necessary probably because she thinks humans are idiots.
|
|
|
Post by hzhp800 on Feb 19, 2009 21:16:54 GMT -5
And Weaver thought it was necessary probably because she thinks humans are idiots. Possibly, and if so, her opinion was reinforced by their use of an insecure line when coordinating the shut down process. She probably figured if they were that incompetent they were probably going to do a shoddy job with the rest of the process too, making it way too easy for people to track something down. Still, it seems to me that Weaver's move was a mistake as blowing the place up only serves to draw more attention to it, not less. If she had been able to, for instance, somehow expedite the process without killing everyone or destroying it she might have dealt a significant blow to Sarah's progress since Derek and the others might have been less motivated to pursue the angle further when she showed them the completely empty and uneventful warehouse. Derek wouldn't deny that somebody shot her, but if it really looked like "they were never there" he and John might have been more inclined to think it wasn't necessarily skynet without any stronger evidence than Sarah's three dots and UFO connection (and her possibly hallucinatory HK sighting). But, now I'm sure Derek and John will be completely on board with investigating since someone was clearly interested in covering something up. (Unless, of course, Sarah was somehow successful at rigging the place with explosives and fell unconscious before she could finish. After which, they later incidentally went off. Or maybe Sarah was desperate to garner Derek's and John's support and rigged an abandoned warehouse to explode to add to her credibility... I suppose they could maybe believe these things if they had somehow lost all faith in Sarah and thought the absolute worst of her, none of which I think has happened). It would've been amusing and ironic if the explosives Weaver eventually found to destroy the warehouse had been the ones Sarah had brought with her and presumably left in her bag. Weaver: "Do you mind telling me where you keep your demolition materials? A sub basement perhaps? No? I'll find them on my own then..." <Looks up and sees Sarah's bag> Weaver: "Oh, never mind, I'll just use these..."
|
|
k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
|
Post by k8ie on Feb 19, 2009 21:32:02 GMT -5
I finally found time to watch this episode. I enjoyed most of it. I hated the cop/abuser angle. Sure, the doc was a victim of spousal abuse and that made her willing to help Sarah. But, making the Sheriff the abusive partner was just to convenient. I didn't understand Weaver's killing spree. Her factory had been compromised. The employees were doing there jobs by clearing out and sanitizing the place. They would have setup a new factory somewhere else. Isn't that exactly what employees for Zeracorp are supposed to do? Yes, watching the T-1000 massacre people was pretty cool, but why did Weaver think it was necessary to murder her own employees? Yeah, I didn't think the abuser needed to be the cop. It didn't really add anything to the episode. But, at the same time, that angle didn't bother me. It just wasn't needed. And Weaver thought it was necessary probably because she thinks humans are idiots. The cop was too convenient and I'm not sure that the parallel between domestic violence and terminators needed to be made quite that blatantly. That said, what I thought made it work was that when Sarah's lies to Felicia about the man who's abusing her, Sarah is actually telling the literal truth - she is being stalked, he does always find her and, when he does, it's Sarah who gets hurt. She puts herself between the machines and John and she's been stabbed, shot at least four times, had her leg broken by shrapnel in The Terminator, not to mention the bruises, fractures, scares and trauma she's taken from her various machine-encounters. From a plot perspective, it's too convenient, even though that idea is seeded early in the episode. But when you realize that the sheriff is the one who's been abusing Felicia, you understand why she shoots him (I think Trineer overplayed that dialogue just a tad. He goes from gold'ol boy to twirly-mustache wife-beater and that made him seem less threatening rather than more). The point is to draw the connection between Felicia and Sarah, using the battered-woman trope to expand our understanding of Sarah Connor's mental state - why she's so on edge, why she's beginning to break down - and, perhaps, to make us appreciate what it means that Sarah's first impulse isn't to solve her problems with a bullet like Derek (or Jesse), to show us that she really is exceptional and it's not merely circumstance that makes her John Connor's mother. It's rising to the challenge of that circumstance. As for Weaver - it may be she suspects the Connors are alive and wants to sanitize the site. Or it could be that Zeira Corp is doing Very. Illegal. Things. And dead people tell no tales (no matter what you see on CSI).
|
|
|
Post by littleb on Feb 20, 2009 6:24:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I didn't think the abuser needed to be the cop. It didn't really add anything to the episode. But, at the same time, that angle didn't bother me. It just wasn't needed. I'm not sure they were paralleling domestic and terminator violence so much as showing two women who've both been terribly damaged by their respective circumstances. When Felicia saw Sarah's scars she jumped to a conclusion and Sarah let her (I love that switch in tone when Sarah realises she has been given a back-story all wrapped up with a big bow on top), playing her along those lines to keep her on side and give her a reason why she wasn't seeking official medical help. It said a lot for Sarah's mental strength that even in the most extreme of circumstances she could still manipulate the situation to her benefit. Domestic violence comes with a lot of different baggage to the violence meted out to Sarah. I think the emotional terror is of a different sort; the fact that the abuser is within the home, someone who might have initially been trusted, even loved by the victim. The sense of being trapped within the situation is the same, but domestic violence victims are often so much more powerless to do anything than Sarah is (especially if there are children to be protected - take the punch, the kids stay safe.) At least with the terminators, Sarah isn't helpless and she is fighting back, she's protecting her child, but she's taking the fight to them rather than being a victim. Heh, I think I said pretty much the exact same thing in my first post after this ep. Easier, more convenient, for her to go with domestic abuse than try and explain the truth. One thing I did wonder after this one; what the hell excuse did she give Charley for all her scars?! He must've noticed them and, being a paramedic, would probably have recognised them for what they were. Maybe Sarah was as good with make-up as Cameron... They did well planting the clues, not overly blatant, just little nudges in the right direction; "Is he a doctor... in law enforcement?" Also liked the reprise of the "I swear on a stack of Bibles..." line. Seemed like a very harsh thing for Felicia to say to Sarah until Sheriff BadGuy used the line right before she plugged him. Then you think, I wonder how many times he's said that to her, right before he's smacked her one. I wasn't really convinced by his performance through the whole ep, but I do think he had a difficult line to tread. I did like the way his exclamation of "Felicia!" when he first realises she's been nabbed could initially be read as concern and then in retrospect was more likely to be anger and frustration and blame because she's (in his eyes) been stupid enough to get caught up in something. Certainly makes you consider what it must be like to live with that fear 24/7. Even when she's active and fighting, there must be a bit of her that's just screaming. Hence, I guess, the nightmares. "You're not one of them." I wonder how she'll react to her killing Winston... You're not trying to tell me that CSI makes stuff up are you?! Maybe Weaver needed the exercise, maybe the blades get blunt if she doesn't get 'em out often enough - use 'em or lose 'em baby! I kinda liked her kill them all approach to problem solving, very efficient and possibly also a punishment for being crap enough to advertise their woes over an unsecured channel. I'm guessing she doesn't suffer fools...
|
|
|
Post by sabaceanbabe on Feb 20, 2009 15:21:34 GMT -5
*sneaks in* More to the point, let's discuss the fact that Head!Kyle appears to believe in Levirite Marriage. Kyle is a Derek/Sarah shipper, clearly. *sneaks back out*
|
|
|
Post by allergygal on Feb 20, 2009 15:58:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure they were paralleling domestic and terminator violence so much as showing two women who've both been terribly damaged by their respective circumstances. When Felicia saw Sarah's scars she jumped to a conclusion and Sarah let her (I love that switch in tone when Sarah realises she has been given a back-story all wrapped up with a big bow on top), playing her along those lines to keep her on side and give her a reason why she wasn't seeking official medical help. It said a lot for Sarah's mental strength that even in the most extreme of circumstances she could still manipulate the situation to her benefit. Domestic violence comes with a lot of different baggage to the violence meted out to Sarah. I think the emotional terror is of a different sort; the fact that the abuser is within the home, someone who might have initially been trusted, even loved by the victim. The sense of being trapped within the situation is the same, but domestic violence victims are often so much more powerless to do anything than Sarah is (especially if there are children to be protected - take the punch, the kids stay safe.) At least with the terminators, Sarah isn't helpless and she is fighting back, she's protecting her child, but she's taking the fight to them rather than being a victim. I agree with you. I don't think the episode was making a comparison between Sarah's experiences with robots and domestic violence. Certainly not a strong comparison anyway. It was a weak one at best because with domestic violence the victim loves and trusts the abuser. I think, like you said, Sarah picked up on Felicia having been abused and she ran with it. One thing I did wonder after this one; what the hell excuse did she give Charley for all her scars?! He must've noticed them and, being a paramedic, would probably have recognised them for what they were. Maybe Sarah was as good with make-up as Cameron... I always wondered that too. "Um, I was in a really bad car accident." ? -- *sneaks in* More to the point, let's discuss the fact that Head!Kyle appears to believe in Levirite Marriage. Kyle is a Derek/Sarah shipper, clearly. *sneaks back out* Oh dear. What am I going to do with you and k8tie? *shakes head* Not that I'd mind a little sexual tension between Sarah and Derek, but I feel all dirty thinking about that after a Sarah/Kyle episode.
|
|
k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
|
Post by k8ie on Feb 20, 2009 18:49:28 GMT -5
I agree with you. I don't think the episode was making a comparison between Sarah's experiences with robots and domestic violence. Certainly not a strong comparison anyway. It was a weak one at best because with domestic violence the victim loves and trusts the abuser. I think, like you said, Sarah picked up on Felicia having been abused and she ran with it. I would argue that the point of the comparison is not how the victim feels to the abuser - obviously, Sarah has not love for machines - but how the abuser appears to the outside world: Sheriff Jeckyll to his men, Mr. Hyde to Felicia/human on the outside, hyperalloy combat chasis on the inside. Both Felicia and Sarah face the same credibility gap with regards to their abusers.
|
|
|
Post by littleb on Feb 21, 2009 9:16:06 GMT -5
I always wondered that too. "Um, I was in a really bad car accident." ? "Yeah... um the body work caused many bullet-shaped injuries... randomly scattered about my limbs..." <LOL> Isn't dirty thinking half the fun?! Oh <wait> <rereads> Oh, right, not that kinda dirty thinking...!
|
|
|
Post by allergygal on Feb 21, 2009 14:14:01 GMT -5
Oh dear. What am I going to do with you and k8tie? *shakes head* Not that I'd mind a little sexual tension between Sarah and Derek, but I feel all dirty thinking about that after a Sarah/Kyle episode. <LOL> Isn't dirty thinking half the fun?! Well, now that you mention it...
|
|