t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Mar 7, 2009 4:55:45 GMT -5
I also though they were hinting at something fundamental with Cameron's hand twitch even after her hand was 'fixed'. It's like a physical manifestation of some kind of emotion. Both times she was twitching was when she was heavily conflicted. "Usually it's not a decision," and yet she doesn't know what should be done.
John might have figured out Riley was from the future at this point. I think his question to Cameron about keeping secrets was his way of saying, "Is it possible future me sent someone else back and you don't know about it?" Same with knowing something future John doesn't, i.e. wandering if future John knows about Riley or that he doesn't have that information.
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timstuff
Private
Scary robot? Naw...
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Post by timstuff on Mar 7, 2009 4:57:11 GMT -5
Now here's a thought-- what if John gets sick of Sarah's crazy behavior, and decides to run away with Cameron? That would certainly be a shocking way to end the season, and it would be both "exciting and sad" the way Summer Glau described. Exciting, because John has finally cut the cord and is ready to start a life with Cameron, but sad, because he's abandoning his mother even though she still loves him.
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Post by littleb on Mar 7, 2009 5:02:10 GMT -5
I love that we see Jesse and Sarah meet and Jesse's motives remain just as ambiguous as ever. About as ambiguous as that accent she was attempting! I know, I want some respect showing, dammit! This is Sarah Connor. Heh. She's actually shaping up to be a bigger Bad than Weaver. Which is fun. <LOL> Cut the guy some slack. He had a bad episode: duped, deceived, mistakenly setting off some chick's gaydar and stood-up in a lay-by?! Plus, why the hell didn't he call Jesse on that spinster get-up she was wearing? What kind of mission calls for that kind of outfit? Loved that moment with the knock at the door (although I was privately hoping for an assassin to liven things up a tad). Gave a very understated insight into what life is like for the Connors. Cos you know, they always come through the front door. And even Cromartie knocked... Molly Malloy? I thought she sold cockles and muscles... oh wait... Molly Malone... What she didn't notice was John referring to the school guidance counsellor as a "him". But then, she's had a rough time of late.** And is she the only person who does housework around there? Cos that bloodstain, it'd been there for a while. ** ETA, I think me tinnitus was playing up, I think John said "send in" not "send him". <sorry Sarah!> Loved her "No, I was out of town" to Jesse. Yeah, out of town, getting shot up, kidnapping a doctor, having surgery, talking to John's dead father, coming back home, getting tasered, getting drugged up, biting her own hand to pieces... like I said, rough times... Not rough enough to shoot Riley out of hand though, although it was very interesting to see her consider it then have to reign herself in again. Riley. Gotta say, I won't miss her. Not the Riley of late. She's just been a whiny irritation. And the cast needed thinning out a bit. "Maybe later." "Maybe never". Aww, that poor pigeon. He was always on borrowed time. Razor blade V wrist. Ha. Learned after last week's little extravaganza not to eat breakfast before viewing. And that kill switch. Could it've been any chunkier? Cos Sarah's gonna notice that. 3 buttons as well. 1. Blow Cameron's brain up. 2. Fetch me breakfast in bed 3. Run to store for those cheesy crunchy puff things that I really like... I'm guessing there's gonna be NC17 fic from this...
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Mar 7, 2009 5:02:56 GMT -5
Now here's a thought-- what if John gets sick of Sarah's crazy behavior, and decides to run away with Cameron? That would certainly be a shocking way to end the season, and it would be both "exciting and sad" the way Summer Glau described. Exciting, because John has finally cut the cord and is ready to start a life with Cameron, but sad, because he's abandoning his mother even though she still loves him. Um, no.
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Post by littleb on Mar 7, 2009 5:04:39 GMT -5
Now here's a thought-- what if John gets sick of Sarah's crazy behavior, and decides to run away with Cameron? That would certainly be a shocking way to end the season, and it would be both "exciting and sad" the way Summer Glau described. Exciting, because John has finally cut the cord and is ready to start a life with Cameron, but sad, because he's abandoning his mother even though she still loves him. <Hands Schmacky a shark> Go on. You jump first, I'm right behind you.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 7, 2009 5:19:00 GMT -5
I always thought that John is going to kill Cameron. Now that seems more and more likely. It all seems to be part of future John's plan. Uncle Bob made John soft. Because of Uncle Bob, John runs the danger of putting too much trust in a machine. Now Cameron has been sent to remind him that regardless of how much he may feel for them, they are still dangerous and he must always be vigilant. I think that killing Cameron will be what finally turns John into the person who would send his own father on a suicide mission. I don't think that makes much sense because: 1) That's exactly what Jesse's plot is. 2) It implies that future John is fundamentally unhappy with his own attitude towards machines and is thinking he grew up wrong. I just don't see it. Jesse doesn't know very much about future John. Due to what happened with Uncle Bob, John is too vulnerable to being manipulated by machines. Heck, according to T3, he gets killed because of his emotional attachment to model 101. It's not just about changing John's attitude towards machines. It's about making him willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. He does have to eventually send his own father on a suicide mission. You're also assuming that future John is actually trying to change the past. He could be making the past. We still don't know if the future is actually being changed. There's evidence to support both ideas.
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t101
Major
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Post by t101 on Mar 7, 2009 5:33:26 GMT -5
Jesse doesn't know very much about future John. That's not the point. From the creative side I do not see John and Jesse having practically identical ideas. But see it's a paradox. It's John who's doing it. If John thinks he is too vulnerable to machines then he doesn't need to go back in time to change himself to think he's too vulnerable... because he already does. it simply makes no sense. The only way it makes sense is if it's not John who sent Cameron for this mission... which ironically would be to save himself from manipulation by machines by.... sending one to manipulate himself. Same as above. He already sent Kyle back. Why would he send someone else back in time to teach himself something he can already do? I do not see what the difference is.
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Post by vicheron on Mar 7, 2009 7:55:29 GMT -5
Jesse doesn't know very much about future John. That's not the point. From the creative side I do not see John and Jesse having practically identical ideas. Why? This is pretty common. There are plenty of books, movies, and tv shows where two different factions are working towards the same goal but still conflict with each other. There are plenty of spy stories where two different agencies on the same side are working against a common enemy but they don't know that they're on the same side so they conflict with each other. It's also done in a lot of sci-fi where good aliens that come to help us fight the bad guys are mistaken as villains. It's not like we're dealing with completely new concepts here. The way Jesse used Riley to get John to hate Cameron has been done plenty of times before too. It's pretty much a staple of soap operas. The paradox is that the only reason why future John was capable of doing all the things is because of what happened with Cameron. It's a predestination paradox. It's the same thing as Kyle Reese being John's father. If Kyle didn't get sent back then John wouldn't exist so he had to have been sent back. If Cameron hadn't been sent back then John wouldn't have become the leader he needed to be so she had to be sent back. Changing the past means that the timeline would play out differently without intervention. Making the past means that intervention from the future is required for things to play out the way they're supposed to. An example would be if your life gets saved by your future self so that you can later build a time machine and go into the past to save your self, so it's essentially a self contained infinitely repeating loop.
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nono
Refugee
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Post by nono on Mar 7, 2009 10:17:19 GMT -5
that's was a good episode. First i didn't like Riley but she touched me and make me feel something specially when she understand Jesse betraied her. But now the question is what about Riley ??
About jesse i think she is very strange and i really doubt about her intentions. Why is she really here ? She wants to win the war but she doesn't anything in this way, her help could be benefict for the team but she doesn't want help them
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Post by VALIANT CHAMPION on Mar 7, 2009 11:47:37 GMT -5
Something that just popped into my head in regards to the meeting between Jesse and Sarah Jesse's comment about wondering if it's wise to have an unattached adult male in the house with a pretty young girl seeking attention. First of all, what's that all about? Is she trying to throw some stuff into Sarah's head to drive even more of a wedge between Derek and Sarah? Maybe making her think he did/said something to Riley? Second of all, when is it a crime for a family to have an uncle staying with them when the nephew has a girlfriend? And I wonder if Sarah caught onto the fact that Jesse said "unattached." Sarah said SHE wasn't involved with Derek, that doesn't mean Derek isn't involved with anyone. Why would a high school guidance counselor make that assumption??? I'm inclined to believe that means something... this show doesn't throw out dialogue for no damn reason. Everything means something. t; Well I think Sarah's submissiveness when confronted by "authority" is a bit odd. Which I would elaborate further but I won't. The natural response by a parent who is confronted by a social worker is a very defensive one. Some parents are so defensive they will make the social worker get a warrant before they will let them in the door. Not because they are guilty but because they are teed off someone turned them in. Plus your fifth amendment protects you from giving any information that could incriminate you. So Sarah was not required to admit that she had guns in her home. If I were a social worker I would see guilt all over the Connor's because of their unusual cooperation and shifty eyes.
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Post by aceplace57 on Mar 7, 2009 11:54:47 GMT -5
I'm wondering if Riley failed her mission? I never particularly got any romantic vibe between John and Riley at all. They're one kiss seemed forced and antiseptic. I was always amazed at their body language. They never stood close, embraced or anything. Did we ever see them spooning? What kind of teen love is that? Riley always seemed more like a pal to John. Someone to kill time with and be a normal teen.
Thinking way, way back to my first serious gf is almost embarrassing. We were hanging off each other every second. I don't think my teen years were any different than kids today. At least I hope not. That first love is always the most special.
I don't see Riley's death as an earthshaking moment for John. Yeah, he'll feel bad that an innocent got killed. But, is that going to twist his feelings for metal forever?
What's the difference between a social worker and a rotweiller?
You can get your kid back from a rottweiler. ;D
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Mar 7, 2009 11:57:16 GMT -5
If you are hiding from authority you wouldn't want to be confrontational. I'm wondering if Riley failed her mission? I never particularly got any romantic vibe between John and Riley at all. There one kiss seemed forced and antiseptic. I was always amazed at their body language. They never stood close, embraced or anything. Did we ever see them spooning? What kind of teen love is that? Riley always seemed more like a pal to John. Someone to kill time with and be a normal teen. I don't see Riley's death as an earthshaking moment for John. Yeah, he'll feel bad that an innocent got killed. But, is that going to twist his feelings for metal forever? If John is convinced Cameron killed her and lied to him about it? Sure it would. I don't think he needed to be madly in love with Riley for it to work. Problem is Cameron is winning some major points, especially this episode. Even despite the glitch she's been so sincerely honest and open and John can tell. I think.
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Post by Hollow Crown on Mar 7, 2009 14:04:01 GMT -5
First, I don't know if its been mentioned or not, but Leven Rambin put on a hell of a performance last night and she practically carried Jesse's character through each scene they had last night. Seriously, she stole the show for me and she showcased some limitless talent last night. This girl has a lot of range and she has a very bright and successful career coming for her, for real. Great job and good for her.
Second, as great as Leven was... I just wasn't into the character of Riley. I didn't really even care for her until last night, but you can tell Ms. Rambin put a lot into that character as a whole, so I thank her for the effort she put forth. In a way, it's sad to see her go, but it finally starts to narrow down the amount of characters this show has, which was getting to be too many, IMO. But now, I want to see Jesse go down more than ever... I really hate that woman right now. I want her to die in a fire, NOW.
Third, I don't like where Cameron's character is going (I don't mean that in a negative way, I mean it in the sense that it's making me sad). The fact she made that necklace for John to blow her chip if she malfunctions again shows me some foreshadowing... especially since Summer has mixed feelings with Cameron's character in the season finale. Part of me wants to see the cliche', happy ending, but the other part of me wants to see the realistic outcome, which is John most likely will have to hit that switch eventually.
Finally, Jesse playing the guidance counseler and getting that Children services lady involved was great writing. It was subtle, but believable, and definitely brings a legit reason for the Connor's potentially having to up and move again.
This episode is a double take for me, I'm going to watch it again today. It's been a long time since I watched an episode on back to back days, I think I haven't done it since "Mr. Ferguson Is Ill Today."
This show has some terrific writing. God bless Josh Friedman and the rest of that crew.
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Post by allergygal on Mar 7, 2009 14:26:35 GMT -5
Something that just popped into my head in regards to the meeting between Jesse and Sarah Jesse's comment about wondering if it's wise to have an unattached adult male in the house with a pretty young girl seeking attention. First of all, what's that all about? Is she trying to throw some stuff into Sarah's head to drive even more of a wedge between Derek and Sarah? Maybe making her think he did/said something to Riley? Yeah that was odd. I think Jesse's plan is much bigger than driving a wedge between John and Cameron. Jesse's plan seems to be busting up the whole Connor clan. We've (well some of us) have gone back and forth about who Riley was there to get between — Sarah and John or Cameron and John. Because really, she kind of came between both. And with Jesse in the picture, where's Derek been? He's hardly ever around. Now Jesse's trying to plant suspicions in Sarah's head about Derek being a perv? It was a dumb suggestion, but there must have been a reason. Jesse is trying to break them them ALL up. She is evil. Another thing.. Cameron and Sarah are switching places an awful lot... Sarah had struggles with killing and went through a mental journey and came out the other end able to kill. Cameron has been struggling NOT to kill (bird) and went through a 'mental' journey due to her glitch (though it's not over, I'm sure) and is currently unable/unwilling to kill (Riley) Sarah used to always trust John and has now told him straight out that she doesn't believe him. Cameron used to not trust John and/or question him and now she's completely put her trust in him by putting her 'life' in his hands. Maybe that's nothing, but it makes me go "hmm" That's not nothing. It all jumped out at me too. This is more of the Sarah-Cameron line blurring. They both contemplated killing Riley. Sarah didn't believe John, Cameron put her "life" in his hands. And we now know that in addition to protecting John, Cameron is there to train him. Sarah's job: protect and train. If Cameron was sent back by future!John (which we really don't know, we just assume), isn't it odd that he sent himself a robot mother?
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Mar 7, 2009 14:51:50 GMT -5
That's not nothing. It all jumped out at me too. This is more of the Sarah-Cameron line blurring. They both contemplated killing Riley. Sarah didn't believe John, Cameron put her "life" in his hands. And we now know that in addition to protecting John, Cameron is there to train him. Sarah's job: protect and train. If Cameron was sent back by future!John (which we really don't know, we just assume), isn't it odd that he sent himself a robot mother? Yes. I think it's weird that John would send himself back a robot mother while saving his mother's life. You know? FutureJohn apparently thought he needed more protection/training/mothering/whatever.. so he sends back Cameron to save his mother and have her skip over her death. But why? Why if Cameron is doing essentially the same thing that Sarah is? Unless of course FutureJohn didn't think that and Cameron was sent by someone else or sent herself back.
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