Post by hzhp800 on Mar 11, 2009 13:33:39 GMT -5
I'm surprised that no one has considered how replaceable John may actually be. This whole thing started when Skynet an intelligent but (relatively) inexperienced entity responded to the apparent turn in the war against humanity. On the brink of destruction the machine likely obsessed over just how/why everything went so wrong. Somewhat simplistically it placed all of the blame on John Connor, who apparently was one of the first truly successful resistors and was able to capture the imaginations of others with his apparent success. So Skynet in a rather fascicle move thinks "ah, remove the cause, remove the effect." Therefore, sending Terminators back in time trying to kill John Connor. The resistance upon realizing what had happened sends its own warriors back in time to try and prevent this.
At this point everyone begins to join in with Skynet's crude inference that it is simply John Connor and only John Connor that is responsible for saving humanity. We could destroy virtually every other human being but for John Connor and Skynet would still lose because of his mad machine killing skillz. It's absurd.
The story Reese delivered to Sarah in T1 sounds more like a propagandist myth perpetuated throughout the resistance as a rallying cry. Realistically, one man can't do all that much to lead a world into anything, especially if the institutional mechanisms to realize their orders or commands have been destroyed. John's greatest role was likely symbolic rather than anything he actually did. One super soldier no matter how tactically gifted or charismatic isn't that valuable in a global war with most of the technology and communication likely disabled or unreliable. As a myth, he can be powerful, as a man his limits are obvious.
In any case, neither the terminators (except for maybe Weaver since she seems disinterested in the Connors) or the future resistance (other than maybe Jesse and her faction) seem to have given Skynet's dubious inference much thought. Especially given the evidence readily available to suggest that the Terminator universe doesn't work that way. My above arguments were about common sense regarding realistic limits on John's practical capacity as one human being. However, from T2 onward we have seen the Connor clan not only embrace Skynet's inference, but apply the same inference in response. (I.e. you try to destroy John in the past to win the war, we'll try to destroy you in the past to win the war). Okay.
How has this worked out for them?
Destroy Cyberdine Systems and Miles Dyson's work... check
Destroy the hand and chip from T1.... check
Destroy Uncle Bob...check.
Kill Andy Goode... check.
In all of the above cases, JD has been postponed, but not prevented. Skynet is likely very different now, the initial story and timeline Uncle Bob gave Sarah about how skynet gets built is no longer true, leading to a rather different skynet whose only relation to the former skynets is that its existence and realization is being shepherded by a Terminator who may or may not be the product of a previous skynet. So, in essence, similar to the hydra myth every time skynet's birth is "prevented" another skynet rises to take its place.
Now given that this is how the war has gone for the humans. What reason do we have to believe that if John or all of the Connors are killed that the rest of humanity is simply going to take extermination (or whatever the machines have planned) lying down? Just because John Connor was the first/most successful myth or legend to take shape and in previous futures was the only legend needed to potentially carry the resistance to victory does not mean that if you remove him from the equation that no others would spring up to take his place. Especially, if there are humans from the future (like Jesse) running around with just about as much information about the machines as present day John, if not more. If they build a wide coalition before/after the start of the war of the 2+ billion people left in the world they should be able to find at least several dozen charismatic people ready and willing to carry the banner.
As it is John has already experienced a kind of "death" when he traveled forward in time in the Pilot. The previous John Connors who likely did not do that are now gone and replaced with a completely different John Connor who is many years younger and different than the previous ones without that set of experiences. So, in essence, John Connor has already been replaced, it just so happens that his first replacement was another younger version of John himself.
In many ways this is probably why the show would be wise to let Jesse succeed and perhaps even cause John's death. It would create an aura of the unknown for the show to explore as suddenly all bets are off. (Which means of course that skynet's initial bet that killing john necessarily leads to victory would also likely blow up in its face for better or for worse.)
At this point everyone begins to join in with Skynet's crude inference that it is simply John Connor and only John Connor that is responsible for saving humanity. We could destroy virtually every other human being but for John Connor and Skynet would still lose because of his mad machine killing skillz. It's absurd.
The story Reese delivered to Sarah in T1 sounds more like a propagandist myth perpetuated throughout the resistance as a rallying cry. Realistically, one man can't do all that much to lead a world into anything, especially if the institutional mechanisms to realize their orders or commands have been destroyed. John's greatest role was likely symbolic rather than anything he actually did. One super soldier no matter how tactically gifted or charismatic isn't that valuable in a global war with most of the technology and communication likely disabled or unreliable. As a myth, he can be powerful, as a man his limits are obvious.
In any case, neither the terminators (except for maybe Weaver since she seems disinterested in the Connors) or the future resistance (other than maybe Jesse and her faction) seem to have given Skynet's dubious inference much thought. Especially given the evidence readily available to suggest that the Terminator universe doesn't work that way. My above arguments were about common sense regarding realistic limits on John's practical capacity as one human being. However, from T2 onward we have seen the Connor clan not only embrace Skynet's inference, but apply the same inference in response. (I.e. you try to destroy John in the past to win the war, we'll try to destroy you in the past to win the war). Okay.
How has this worked out for them?
Destroy Cyberdine Systems and Miles Dyson's work... check
Destroy the hand and chip from T1.... check
Destroy Uncle Bob...check.
Kill Andy Goode... check.
In all of the above cases, JD has been postponed, but not prevented. Skynet is likely very different now, the initial story and timeline Uncle Bob gave Sarah about how skynet gets built is no longer true, leading to a rather different skynet whose only relation to the former skynets is that its existence and realization is being shepherded by a Terminator who may or may not be the product of a previous skynet. So, in essence, similar to the hydra myth every time skynet's birth is "prevented" another skynet rises to take its place.
Now given that this is how the war has gone for the humans. What reason do we have to believe that if John or all of the Connors are killed that the rest of humanity is simply going to take extermination (or whatever the machines have planned) lying down? Just because John Connor was the first/most successful myth or legend to take shape and in previous futures was the only legend needed to potentially carry the resistance to victory does not mean that if you remove him from the equation that no others would spring up to take his place. Especially, if there are humans from the future (like Jesse) running around with just about as much information about the machines as present day John, if not more. If they build a wide coalition before/after the start of the war of the 2+ billion people left in the world they should be able to find at least several dozen charismatic people ready and willing to carry the banner.
As it is John has already experienced a kind of "death" when he traveled forward in time in the Pilot. The previous John Connors who likely did not do that are now gone and replaced with a completely different John Connor who is many years younger and different than the previous ones without that set of experiences. So, in essence, John Connor has already been replaced, it just so happens that his first replacement was another younger version of John himself.
In many ways this is probably why the show would be wise to let Jesse succeed and perhaps even cause John's death. It would create an aura of the unknown for the show to explore as suddenly all bets are off. (Which means of course that skynet's initial bet that killing john necessarily leads to victory would also likely blow up in its face for better or for worse.)