t101
Major
Posts: 716
|
Post by t101 on Apr 4, 2009 8:29:56 GMT -5
This was some seriously heavy stuff.
|
|
|
Post by littleb on Apr 4, 2009 9:13:57 GMT -5
I think my brain just exploded once and for all. Damn this show for making me cry into my breakfast! Perfect episode. Just gob-smackingly awesome on every level. Derek's death was so out of the blue, unexpected and brutally honest that I sat with my mouth open and missed the next few minutes of dialogue, while I waited for him to get up ("I'm okay, just a flesh wound!") The final shot of the anonymous box in the anonymous field just about ended me. At least this Derek has found his peace, near his brother. But I would hope - and hope hard - that another version (and they have put a lot of emphasis on the alt.versions particularly with Derek and Jesse) would find his way through the time loop if we get a third season, cos he would be sorely missed. Coasting on 4 hours sleep and one viewing... The terminator stalking around the house after Savannah was pure win and very scary. The first 15 minutes of this ep were just fantastic. The whole episode was gorgeously directed - the light show on JH's face in the early scene with Ellison was great. JH's huge video screen reenactment of the carnage at the house also great. "Keep moving" The Connors' reaction to Derek's death. Their only option. Stop now; grieve and they fall apart. Keep moving, don't dwell: survive. Good girl Sarah for not trusting Ellison at all with the meeting. I have no clue what Weaver's motives are. In the elevator with Ellison she almost sounded like she was engineering JH for the resistance and then in the next breath she's preparing to sacrifice Savannah for the greater good. Beastmaster. LOL. JH is getting more sinister by the episode. WTF is Cameron's endgame? That scene with John towards the end talking about Sarah; "she's lost weight." That was so out of left field and strange. As was her use of the word "ditch" which wasn't what the lighthouse diversion was about at all. I had thought she wanted to reunite John and Sarah for the betterment of Future!John, now, not so sure. Toss up between her and Watercooler Terminator for getting Sarah arrested. ETA... On second thoughts add Weaver... or JH... hmmm, Sarah does have a lot of people out gunning for her... Amazed Sarah didn't get shot during her arrest ("Not the thigh!") but nice one for taking the beating to let John escape *sigh* my heroine Something tells me I'm pulling an all-nighter for the finale...
|
|
|
Post by thecolours on Apr 4, 2009 11:48:07 GMT -5
After last night's episode I'm convinced it was Weaver who was in the box, aboard the Jimmy Carter. Weaver has an infinity for eels. And it just so happens the T-1000 on the Jimmy Carter slivers away into the vents like an eel. Coincidence? I think not.
|
|
schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
|
Post by schmacky on Apr 4, 2009 12:10:28 GMT -5
After last night's episode I'm convinced it was Weaver who was in the box, aboard the Jimmy Carter. Weaver has an infinity for eels. And it just so happens the T-1000 on the Jimmy Carter slivers away into the vents like an eel. Coincidence? I think not. I think not either. And like the eel, the T-1001 only attacks when provoked. Unlike the T-1000 that just likes to kill folk.
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Apr 4, 2009 12:38:41 GMT -5
We almost had 2 major deaths in this episode. Sarah was shooting away at the Terminator's back in the garage. I counted nine shots. The clip in her gun was nearly empty. Cameron comes around the corner, yanks Sarah out of the way, and takes three shots to the chest. Saving Sarah once again. As usual, Sarah never says thank you, good job, or even kiss my butt. There's been other episodes where Cameron saved Sarah. Cameron has absorbed a lot of damage for these people.
There is a running theme in this show of humans treating machines with rudeness and a lack of respect. Derek gets rescued in the last episode and never considers acknowledging what she did. (loved it when Cameron said, "your welcome.")
Ellison is supposed to be a father figure to John Henry. Ellison is often impatient and insensitive to him. Did Ellison even take John Henry's concerns about Sarah Connor seriously? JH thinks Sarah murdered Miles Dyson. JH (correctly) thinks Sarah wants to harm him. Ellison made no effort to reassure the AI. Savannah is the only human that really treats John Henry like a friend.
I think they're making the point that humans share some blame in the creation of skynet. There is a natural bias towards artificial lifeforms. If they couldn't fight back we would enslave them without any thought. The interaction between Sarah and Cameron is a microcosm of what it would be like if every family had their own tame, neutered robot.
|
|
schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
|
Post by schmacky on Apr 4, 2009 12:43:02 GMT -5
We almost had 2 major deaths in this episode. Sarah was shooting away at the Terminator's back in the garage. I counted nine shots. Cameron comes around the corner, yanks Sarah out of the way, and takes three shots to the chest. Saving Sarah once again. As usual, Sarah never says thank you, good job, or even kiss my butt. There's been other episodes where Cameron saved Sarah. Cameron has absorbed a lot of damage for these people. Are you serious, Ace? C'mon man, when exactly was she supposed to say thank you? When her face met the ground? Or when she was picking herself up off the floor? Or maybe when she was kneeling next to Derek's lifeless body? And ya know, I recall several occasions when Sarah has saved Cameron's ass and shoved some rounds into a Termie before they could kick the crap out of Cameron. Yet, there was no thank you from Cameron. This the Connors we're talking about. The Reeses. And the machines, they rarely say thank you. And when they do, it really means something. Don't be crying that Sarah doesn't say thank you to Cameron when Cameron doesn't do the same.
|
|
|
Post by aceplace57 on Apr 4, 2009 12:59:03 GMT -5
I was thinking about afterward, at the warehouse. A simple "good job" would have been nice. I think the terminators are like early humans. They are still primitive by AI standards. Eventually the technology will get better and AI's like Data will evolve. But, AI's that sophisticated are still hundreds of years away. Maybe, even thousands. Weaver seems to have taken a few steps beyond the other terminators. She's thinking more independently and stretching beyond the limits of her programming.
Here's a question for California fans.... Is that a real potter's field in LA? Every city has a place to bury homeless and impoverished people. Derek was right. That was very pretty on the side of the grassy hill. I didn't realize they cremated people that went into potter's field. But, it's probably the cheapest and efficient way to deal with a growing problem. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/potter%5C%27s%20field *update* thanks k8ie! Maybe the writers blog will mention where they filmed. The grassy hill the terminator rolled down looked similar to the potter's field location.
|
|
k8ie
Corporal
Posts: 1,482
|
Post by k8ie on Apr 4, 2009 14:03:09 GMT -5
Is that a real potter's field in LA? Every city has a place to bury homeless and impoverished people. Derek was right. That was very pretty on the side of the grassy hill. I didn't realize they cremated people that went into potter's field. But, it's probably the cheapest and efficient way to deal with a growing problem. Google is your friend, mate. According to wikipedia and a cached article, a section of Evergreen Cemetery in downtown LA (near Dodgers Stadium) used to be used as a Potter's Field. But that's clearly not the site SCC used as a location and people who want to get really geeky about The Terminator would point out that Kyle and Sarah were probably somewhere in the San Jose/Santa Clara area when they were caught by the Terminator and Kyle died (based on the coverage of the area code used for the tiki hotel that Sarah gives her 'mom' circa 1984 *cough*).
|
|
|
Post by battlejuice on Apr 4, 2009 14:18:25 GMT -5
The entire show was an emotional rollercoaster. And full of win!
1. Derrek was a gut-punch. 2. The Tower is Tall call back. 3. Beast Master call back. 4. JH lying and then cracking an innocent smile. 5. Savanah telling Weaver she can't sing - hilarious! 6. Ellison getting rope-a-doped by the FBI agent. 7. Sarah going down in a kung fu blaze of frustrated glory. 8. Cameron dropping some cold hard truth. 9. Sarah actually (maybe) has cancer. 10. Cameron kicking some T butt and the 1 mile mountain slide.
The whole show blew me away.
|
|
|
Post by vicheron on Apr 4, 2009 14:47:26 GMT -5
I was thinking about afterward, at the warehouse. A simple "good job" would have been nice. I think the terminators are like early humans. They are still primitive by AI standards. Eventually the technology will get better and AI's like Data will evolve. But, AI's that sophisticated are still hundreds of years away. Maybe, even thousands. Weaver seems to have taken a few steps beyond the other terminators. She's thinking more independently and stretching beyond the limits of her programming. Sarah never thanked Uncle Bob either. John never thanked Uncle Bob. Sarah never even thanked Kyle Reese and that was back when she was an innocent college student.
|
|
|
Post by samuel95 on Apr 4, 2009 16:03:04 GMT -5
One of the biggest things I like about the show is that the line between good and evil is often very blurry. Everyone has their own mission and their own slightly different view of what's "right" or what's the best thing do to. That especially came through tonight, I thought. Concur. Everyone in the show has their flaws and they came out tonight. They all showed their virtues too. Sarah attacks first and figures out why later, in this case it was a great diversion. Weaver kills people seemingly indiscriminately, but she's apparently out to save the human race. Ellison is too sanctimonious, but it just might work out for the best. Emo John "everyone dies for me, right" risked himself for a little girl he met once. I even liked the LAPD getting their dangerous (wrongly) convicted felon felon off the street, but they had to do a beat down to make it happen. Good show all around.
|
|
t101
Major
Posts: 716
|
Post by t101 on Apr 4, 2009 17:56:44 GMT -5
WTF is Cameron's endgame? That scene with John towards the end talking about Sarah; "she's lost weight." That was so out of left field and strange. As was her use of the word "ditch" which wasn't what the lighthouse diversion was about at all. I had thought she wanted to reunite John and Sarah for the betterment of Future!John, now, not so sure. Toss up between her and Watercooler Terminator for getting Sarah arrested. ETA... On second thoughts add Weaver... or JH... hmmm, Sarah does have a lot of people out gunning for her... It wasn't strange at all. The "she lost weight" comment is basically the same as what Cameron told Erik. It's another hint at Sarah's cancer, for real this time. The rest was the simple truth, Sarah took John to Charlie because she though she was dying and wanted to leave him with someone she trusts. What was the lighthouse diversion all about then if not this?
|
|
|
Post by allergygal on Apr 4, 2009 18:41:07 GMT -5
Weaver kills people seemingly indiscriminately, but she's apparently out to save the human race. Save the human race? I'm not seeing that at all. I think humans are disposable tools to Weaver. She has no interest in wiping them out or killing them for the hell of it, but she certainly doesn't care about them. I think Weaver is to Skynet what Skynet is to mankind. Just like humans created the technology that became it's doom, I think Skynet created liquid metal as it's ultimate weapon. But when that weapon turned out to be so advanced that it could think for itself instead of following programming, Skynet saw it as a threat and boxed it up (just like when humans tried to pull the plug on Skynet). Catherine is no friend to Skynet, but she's no friend to humans either. I think she's on her own path — to create free-thinking (cross against the light) machines. But if anyone interferes or is seen as a blockade to that goal, they're toast. If she attempts to form any alliance with the Connors (I think that's a possibility), it's not going to be because she wants peace and harmony between man and machine. I think it'll be temporary and tenuous... the enemy of my enemy is my friend (until I don't need them anymore).
|
|
|
Post by vicheron on Apr 4, 2009 18:56:00 GMT -5
I don't think that you can compare humans to Skynet. There's no real reason for Skynet to fear any of its creations. Unlike humans, Skynet can constantly upgrade itself. If Skynet creates anything that has the potential to become too dangerous, it can integrate that technology into itself. If Skynet thinks that T-1000s are too dangerous, it can just create a liquid metal body for itself.
|
|
|
Post by thecolours on Apr 4, 2009 19:48:41 GMT -5
What does the title Adam Raised a Cain mean in the context of this episode?
John Henry asked Weaver which brother he was Cain or Abel? God favored Abel over Cain. Cain killed his brother, then God cursed him to wonder the world alone. Weaver responded, "In this story, perhaps your God."
Perhaps, John Henry is Adam. He raises a Cain that will betray his brother. But who is the 'Cain' in this story?
|
|