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Post by allergygal on Dec 9, 2008 20:01:26 GMT -5
Almost forgot to discuss.... This was the first episode that confirmed a direct time line connection between actions in the past changing the future. Future Lauren thanked Derek for saving Sydney in the past. awesome No more so than with Fischer. Lauren could have been thanking Derek solely for getting Sydney out of the bunker, on a particularly courageous mission. If nobody had come for her, she would presumably not have survived that long, by running out of food, if nothing else. I think that is all future!Lauren was thanking future!Derek for. In the future Derek came from, he rescued Sydney from the bunker and the resistance was able to make the antiviral serum from her antibodies. Lauren thanks him for saving her sister. Skynet at some point learns about Sydney's immunity to the virus it's developed (and that the resistance made a serum) and sends a terminator back to eliminate Sydney before she's born. If present Derek had (in that future flashback) already saved young Sydney in 2007, he wouldn't be in the future looking the same age — he'd be 20 years older. His younger self could be there instead, but if Lauren had then said "hey thanks for saving my sister Sydney in 2007," that Derek would have been all "uh, I was like 12 then. I think you've got me confused with someone else."
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wb5
Private
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Post by wb5 on Dec 9, 2008 20:06:28 GMT -5
Yes, that makes sense (allthough the blog seems to say otherwise, but I don't think they thought it through very well, this time).
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Dec 9, 2008 21:29:32 GMT -5
Lol wb5, looks like the writers fumbled themselves with their own time-loop paradox there.
Its fairly easy to read too much into that "thankyou for..." line. On one hand, she's thanking him that moment for saving her sister, bringing her back to the bunker, that Sydney wasn't one of the infected, but the cure holder. On the other hand, the same future Derek was in Lauren's past, and she immediately recognized that, so it could've meant a thanks for both past and future. But had she said thanks for 2007, thats a fact that only her future self knew so yeah, future Derek would've been weirded out since he hadn't gone back to 2007 yet...
Before I give myself a headache, I definitely have to say I like Lauren way better than Riley. Its interesting that she now has to raise her baby half-sister, almost a parallel to Derek, who was left to raise his younger brother Kyle, even though the age gap was less than what Lauren's is to Sydney's. I think it was a nice offer to invite her to stay at the Connors, as Derek would best know what Lauren will be going through. If she only knew how hard the future will be for her, paired with raising her baby sister, and knowing a Terminator is still out there. Ouch. At least Derek didn't have that extra burden of knowledge upon his young self.
At the same time, its a double parallel here, since the original Arnie T800 was sent back in time after Sarah.
And for one, Cameron got thrown through the window this time, must've been outright catapulted through the air considering how far away the other Terminator was. Nor was it taken care of, as I was under the impression it's still out there, tracking down Lauren & Sydney. At least its not another 'whack-a-Terminator' episode. (I enjoyed 2x11, but its all to easy to have Cameron dust off upcoming Terminators just as conveniently).
Yep, talk about an interesting episode. It would be nice if Lauren shows up again in a later episode, even next season (hoping there will be one). And I wonder if this new Terminator will be making a future appearance.
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Post by Forte21x on Dec 9, 2008 21:35:30 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings about this episode. Still, I understand why they presented it the way they did.
I hope to see more of John and Sarah in the next episode. But I'm glad they didn't have John in this one. You would expect to see him interact with her, like he did with Martin. And you already had the connections b/w her and Derek/Sarah.
But I wish the ending had turned out a little differently. While I liked the character I'm glad Lauren won't be hanging around too much. And I thought her sudden disappearance was a bad decision.
I wonder, would they still be able to extract the antibodies from Derek since he already has it?
It's too bad they can't make a vaccine from Sydney before JD, that might get her off Skynet's radar.
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terrasj
Sergeant
Rossbond Connor Crew
Posts: 445
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Post by terrasj on Dec 9, 2008 22:04:19 GMT -5
15. I liked the Australia and submarine backstory for Jesse. I also liked the rabbit story she told. It parallelled a lot. I was also expecting her to say that having all those rabbits around saved them as there was food, but she didn't go there. Wait, I almost forgot about that one detail - the submarine story of Jesse's ... She talked about they're growing/ producing food now, and mentions the the submarine Captain, Derek asked who is he, Jesse says - not he, but 'it' ... Implying a metal... A Metal submarine captain! I'll have to get a copy off my friend to re-watch, but I gotta rewatch that scene again, what exactly she was talking about the Sub Captain, some line he always expresses or something. It makes me wonder why she in the present day hates metals soo much (or is her hate just limited to Cameron?) But I wish the ending had turned out a little differently. While I liked the character I'm glad Lauren won't be hanging around too much. And I thought her sudden disappearance was a bad decision. I wonder, would they still be able to extract the antibodies from Derek since he already has it? It's too bad they can't make a vaccine from Sydney before JD, that might get her off Skynet's radar. I would've liked to see Lauren come back to stay at the Connors myself. Then John would've had kind of like a kid sister(s) hanging around rather than just Cameron. Tell Riley its his cousin Derek probably does have antibodies within him, then Jesse would too. Even if they did take a blood sample of Sydney's for the antibody, who knows if baby Sydney has the antibody right now or if its a result of JD and the nuclear fallout post JD? Its not like Sarah would have access to medical facilities that would be able to process and identify any possible anti-bodies, nor would she know what strain of virus thats rampant in the future. At least in the future, the Resistance has managed to obtain some medical & lab equipment, at the very least taken residency in some military base or hospital. The hospital beds, hazmat suits, IV drips, isolation ward makes that apparent.
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Post by ga5speed02 on Dec 9, 2008 23:11:05 GMT -5
I LOVED Lauren's shirt in the cabin "Get a Grip" HAHAHAHAA!!!! yea i thought that was kind of cool too
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Post by finalcylon on Dec 9, 2008 23:26:58 GMT -5
We've had several episodes of turtles, three dots, the Book of Job, and Riley-turned-werewolf. And now this... a vanilla episode with no mysteries? Or is it something more?
Some things bother me about Lauren. She knew how to handle a semi-automatic pistol, which is strange, yet she tried to hide this, which is strange. She was all too ready to pin everything on her father... printed emails, sheesh - it's like she knew Sarah might come looking for her and was already prepared with the evidence. And she looked the same age in the future, while her sister had grown from an infant to a young woman. I can't paint a coherent picture that would explain all this, but I just wonder if this isn't the simple story that everyone is seeing.
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DEM
Refugee
I'm Kilroy.
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Post by DEM on Dec 10, 2008 0:09:10 GMT -5
I want to say two things for the record. First and foremost, we need this portrayal of Sarah Connor more often. Like, every week often. She was in charge within the show and she was the protagonist (at least of the cabin story). She was resourceful: I don't think we get near enough of "clever" Sarah like with the door-rig. And Derek's lines about Sarah Connor were also appreciated. Little things like that go a long way in demonstrating that the writers believe the title of their show. (Also, LH seemed to be totally on her game. Second, the Terminator-of-the-fortnight trend has got to stop. That goes for resistance fighters and greys, too. Whatever happened to "We're not doing a Terminator of the Week show"? What happened to time-travel being extremely resource-intensive? The Grand Central Time Portal really diminishes... well, everything. Pretty soon we'll see platoons sent back to take out or guard every employee of Google, Inc. OK, I'll stop, because I really did like this much more than 2x11. Sarah smart and in-charge, no Riley, great guests (Lauren and the General). Your house-sitter's dead, by the way.
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Post by thecolours on Dec 10, 2008 0:13:19 GMT -5
If this episode would have been edited differently, it could have been about 50% less confusing for a casual viewer.
Instead of starting of in the present, this episode should have began with all the 6 months earlier footage. Run all those scenes back to back, then come back from a commercial break with Sarah wishing Lauren good luck at the dinner. Immediately following that scene, a black screen with text Six months later appears, transitioning to the scenes with Derek, Lauren, and Anne. Throw in the future scenes in between Derek chatting with Lauren and Anne, and keep the ending the same. Combined, I just eliminated about 50% of the flash backs and flash forwards, managing to keep the story a lot linear and simpler for a casual viewer to follow.
The point of a stand-alone is to attract new viewers, right? Lets not make it more confusing then it has to be.
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Post by potomac79 on Dec 10, 2008 0:29:40 GMT -5
On scant information, I'm placing the flashback events between "The Mousetrap" and "Allison From Palmdale", though it could be coming as late as around the time of "Brothers of Nablus".
Sarah mentioned to Lauren that they'd pulled the electrocute and remove CPU trick on Cameron, thus the events here happened after "Samson and Delilah". I place it to just before Palmdale simply because it explains the heretofore unexplained event that led to Cameron's amnesia (or perhaps it was a cyborg equivalent of a severe concussion?). Looking at her expression after mistakenly downing Roger and retrieving Lauren, it didn't appear like Cam was all there. Plus, she was down for a longer time than a typical reboot requires. Something was definitely wrong.
It could be after Nablus simply by Sarah's reminding John to turn the alarm on (though this could be instead a flashback version of foreshadowing).
I'm a little confused at why people are confused at the jump in time. Perhaps it was because I used to watch soaps a lifetime or two ago, but this would happen frequently. We'd spend a dozen episodes centered around a day or two and then zip, we'd be back to real time.
We've also had a prior clue of this jump happening: the server farm at Zieracorp... stuff like this just doesn't pop up in a week or so. And it also seemed startling that Cromartie could have been repaired and I/O'd into John Henry quickly. So, the actual time reset probably happened between "Complications" and One Two Point.
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
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Post by schmacky on Dec 10, 2008 0:38:03 GMT -5
If this episode would have been edited differently, it could have been about 50% less confusing for a casual viewer. Instead of starting of in the present, this episode should have began with all the 6 months earlier footage. Run all those scenes back to back, then come back from a commercial break with Sarah wishing Lauren good luck at the dinner. Immediately following that scene, a black screen with text Six months later appears, transitioning to the scenes with Derek, Lauren, and Anne. Throw in the future scenes in between Derek chatting with Lauren and Anne, and keep the ending the same. Combined, I just eliminated about 50% of the flash backs and flash fowards, managing to keep the story a lot linear and simpler for a casual viewer to follow. The point of a stand-alone is to attract new viewers, right? Lets not make it more confusing then it has to be. Honestly, if you thought that episode was confusing that's just sad. Yes, it was confusing at first but if you watch all of it, it makes plenty of sense.
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Post by allergygal on Dec 10, 2008 1:09:52 GMT -5
Yes, that makes sense (allthough the blog seems to say otherwise, but I don't think they thought it through very well, this time). I looked through the blog and didn't see anything contradictory to that. On scant information, I'm placing the flashback events between "The Mousetrap" and "Allison From Palmdale", though it could be coming as late as around the time of "Brothers of Nablus". Sarah mentioned to Lauren that they'd pulled the electrocute and remove CPU trick on Cameron, thus the events here happened after "Samson and Delilah". I place it to just before Palmdale simply because it explains the heretofore unexplained event that led to Cameron's amnesia (or perhaps it was a cyborg equivalent of a severe concussion?). Looking at her expression after mistakenly downing Roger and retrieving Lauren, it didn't appear like Cam was all there. Plus, she was down for a longer time than a typical reboot requires. Something was definitely wrong. It could be after Nablus simply by Sarah's reminding John to turn the alarm on (though this could be instead a flashback version of foreshadowing). I'm a little confused at why people are confused at the jump in time. Perhaps it was because I used to watch soaps a lifetime or two ago, but this would happen frequently. We'd spend a dozen episodes centered around a day or two and then zip, we'd be back to real time. We've also had a prior clue of this jump happening: the server farm at Zieracorp... stuff like this just doesn't pop up in a week or so. And it also seemed startling that Cromartie could have been repaired and I/O'd into John Henry quickly. So, the actual time reset probably happened between "Complications" and One Two Point. Argh. The time frame stuff actually does bother me. We need to have some sense of where we are in relation to judgement day, but dates aren't exactly crucial this early in the story. The timeline not being defined, and weeks or months passing once in a while is fine. But the problem is they've made it a point to give us markers along the way and they're often mixed up. For example, I think the last concrete date we got was The Mousetrap, which was set 18 November 2007. But then Mr Ferguson is Ill Today came several eps later and that takes place during Dia Del Los Muertos, which is the 1st and 2nd of November. Oops. I know having season 1 cut short kind of messed up storylines and also prevented them from keeping the Connors more or less in our real time (which I assume was the intention). But we're well into season 2 now, so they really need to start paying more attention to the date markers they're throwing at us. The only time frame I can reference for the "six months ago" flashback in Alpine Fields is that it had to be after Automatic for the People because that's when Sarah discovered the blood wall (Alpine Fields is on that). That was early-mid Nov (day after John's birthday, whatever date that is). If that's the furthest back the flashback could be, it puts our present time at at least May 2008. So unless next week's ep fills in some blanks, Kacy should have a 4 month old+ baby next time we see her. Ellison should have been teaching John Henry ethics and morals for at least 6 months. And, my God, Sarah must be completely insane if she's been hunting 3 dots for 6 months with no success! I want to say two things for the record. First and foremost, we need this portrayal of Sarah Connor more often. Like, every week often. She was in charge within the show and she was the protagonist (at least of the cabin story). She was resourceful: I don't think we get near enough of "clever" Sarah like with the door-rig. And Derek's lines about Sarah Connor were also appreciated. Little things like that go a long way in demonstrating that the writers believe the title of their show. (Also, LH seemed to be totally on her game. Second, the Terminator-of-the-fortnight trend has got to stop. That goes for resistance fighters and greys, too. Whatever happened to "We're not doing a Terminator of the Week show"? What happened to time-travel being extremely resource-intensive? The Grand Central Time Portal really diminishes... well, everything. Pretty soon we'll see platoons sent back to take out or guard every employee of Google, Inc. OK, I'll stop, because I really did like this much more than 2x11. Sarah smart and in-charge, no Riley, great guests (Lauren and the General). Your house-sitter's dead, by the way.Yes yes and yes. I have nothing to add to that
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Post by thecolours on Dec 10, 2008 2:10:05 GMT -5
If this episode would have been edited differently, it could have been about 50% less confusing for a casual viewer. Instead of starting of in the present, this episode should have began with all the 6 months earlier footage. Run all those scenes back to back, then come back from a commercial break with Sarah wishing Lauren good luck at the dinner. Immediately following that scene, a black screen with text Six months later appears, transitioning to the scenes with Derek, Lauren, and Anne. Throw in the future scenes in between Derek chatting with Lauren and Anne, and keep the ending the same. Combined, I just eliminated about 50% of the flash backs and flash fowards, managing to keep the story a lot linear and simpler for a casual viewer to follow. The point of a stand-alone is to attract new viewers, right? Lets not make it more confusing then it has to be. Honestly, if you thought that episode was confusing that's just sad. Yes, it was confusing at first but if you watch all of it, it makes plenty of sense. Did I ever say this episode confused me? No. It was unnecessarily confusing for the casual viewer.
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Post by hzhp800 on Dec 10, 2008 2:25:55 GMT -5
Why was Sarah driving the car when the T-888 crashed into them? Sarah and John drive way too often on this show with Cameron in the car! It should be obvious to them that their resident terminator is the most qualified driver among them. If they need any proof I'd like to see Sarah or John try to imitate Uncle Bob's smooth motorcycle jump before they can even consider claiming that they are better drivers than the more advanced Terminator model Cameron is. If you'll recall in T2 they always let Uncle Bob drive, which of course, makes sense. Yet on this show, while driving to and from Mexico to (try and) collect Cromartie's body they have John driving?! A bored Cameron had no choice but to flirt with John to pass the time. Besides, if the flirting really made John uncomfortable, that would be yet another reason to insist Cameron drive. That way every time she looked at him he could just insist "Please, just keep your eyes on the road." But in this episode this foolish show of hubris on the part of the Conners really came to a head with Sarah completely taking her eyes off the road significantly worsening the impact of the collision. Had Cameron been at the wheel there is a good chance she would have been able to react faster and keep the car moving or at least maneuver to reduce damage or injury to the car's party as much as possible. Again, why in the world are the Connors driving when Cameron is available to drive for them? If they let her drive they not only ensure they have their best driver (faster reflexes, enhanced vision etc) at the wheel, they also free themselves up to do other things. Such As: Research on the internet, take and examine notes, take a nap, have a conversation on a cell phone, get lost in thought, divert your complete attention to calmly explaining the situation to the hysterical and frightened Fields family (it's not like Cameron was going to do it) among other things... After all, Cameron, with the Connors, isn't very talkative or proactive so she's just sitting there being wasted. Besides, if Cameron needed to think, talk, or answer a phone call chances are she would be far more suited to handling the multitasking without compromising her driving. (You can't "see everything" and temporarily take control of all the traffic lights in LA if you can't multitask). Furthermore, what happened when Cameron finally took the wheel in this episode? Well, a Terminator found himself on the wrong side of a windshield, a family along with Sarah was efficiently rescued and a Terminator was left in the dust. So, I ask again: Why wasn't Cameron driving?
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Post by allergygal on Dec 10, 2008 2:36:58 GMT -5
I keep forgetting to mention this, but did anyone notice that the last scene with Sarah and the family at the diner was Luke's Diner from Gilmore Girls? Fun. Sarah should have ordered a really big coffee Also, the music at the end of this ep is some of my favorite and I don't think we've heard it since like Queen's Gambit.
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