DEM
Refugee
I'm Kilroy.
Posts: 94
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Post by DEM on Dec 10, 2008 17:51:38 GMT -5
Yeah, he barked, but not the "TERMINATOR! Listen to me...TERMINATOR! WARNING! WARNING!" sort of incessant barking we all come to know and love. More of the "Someone new!" and "The window's broken! Did you see?!? And I smell a TERMINATOR DOWN THE ROAD!" Personally, I don't associate growling with happy, inquisitive dog. I tend to associate it with dog-is-preparing-to-bite-yo-ass. And, again, the dog started growling and barking well before Cameron came flying thru the window and it continued to growl. There was no such growling for Neighbour Man. Eh, I liked the sly reaction myself. ( TSCC sometimes gets a bit too on-the-nose for my tastes.) Perhaps the problem with the first scene is that it wasn't clear to viewers that the dog was not in the cabin until the very end of it. And... they probably could have used a better take of the cue-barking -- one in which the dog seemed sterner or something.
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Post by potomac79 on Dec 10, 2008 20:35:11 GMT -5
Going back to my assumption that this is happening pre-Palmdale... Cameron's fighting skills against trip-8s and other terminators seemed to improve a lot after her "malfunctions". She's been ending up a lot less damaged while her opponents have ended up one CPU short of a server farm.
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Post by allergygal on Dec 10, 2008 23:45:26 GMT -5
The only time frame I can reference for the "six months ago" flashback in Alpine Fields is that it had to be after Automatic for the People because that's when Sarah discovered the blood wall (Alpine Fields is on that). That was early-mid Nov (day after John's birthday, whatever date that is). If that's the furthest back the flashback could be, it puts our present time at at least May 2008. So unless next week's ep fills in some blanks, Kacy should have a 4 month old+ baby next time we see her. Ellison should have been teaching John Henry ethics and morals for at least 6 months. And, my God, Sarah must be completely insane if she's been hunting 3 dots for 6 months with no success! What makes you think that Sarah and Cameron at the cabin is around the same time as the 3 dots or John Henry? The cabin story could have taken place around the Mousetrap. Weeks could have passed since the Mexico thing and weeks and weeks could have passed since Sarah's dreams. I don't think I can explain that any better than I did. Really, though, I think Mr Ferguson is the problem. If they didn't anchor that to an actual event that has an actual date, the time frames could be wide open since Mousetrap. And as I mentioned before, the Mr Ferguson date doesn't even fit where they put it. It's just another one of those things that we have to overlook. It's not exactly a big deal, but considering how important timelines are in this show, I wish they'd be more careful with it.
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Post by theturk on Dec 11, 2008 0:48:55 GMT -5
Setting aside the truly unreconcilable date of Mr. Ferguson, yes, the implication is that Sarah with the Fields is an early "list" mission somewhere between episode 3 and 8 (I actually like the shortly after Mousetrap timeframe), while the present day material six months afterwards is the show's present. This at least finally gets us into 2008 and also suggests that Sarah's obsession with the three dots is taking a lot of time...
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schmacky
Major
"Make yourself useful."
Posts: 522
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Post by schmacky on Dec 11, 2008 1:35:24 GMT -5
What makes you think that Sarah and Cameron at the cabin is around the same time as the 3 dots or John Henry? The cabin story could have taken place around the Mousetrap. Weeks could have passed since the Mexico thing and weeks and weeks could have passed since Sarah's dreams. I don't think I can explain that any better than I did. Really, though, I think Mr Ferguson is the problem. If they didn't anchor that to an actual event that has an actual date, the time frames could be wide open since Mousetrap. And as I mentioned before, the Mr Ferguson date doesn't even fit where they put it. It's just another one of those things that we have to overlook. It's not exactly a big deal, but considering how important timelines are in this show, I wish they'd be more careful with it. I guess I was confused when you said Sarah and the 3 dots goin on for 6 months.. maybe it's more like 3 or something. I agree with you though that it all took place roughly around the Mousetrap and I'm glad that Zack cleared it up for us.
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Post by finalcylon on Dec 11, 2008 13:25:50 GMT -5
People keep pointing out Cameron's lengthy unconscious time this episode, but you do realize that Cameron has NEVER been down for the standard reboot time, right? Back in season 1, I timed it. Cameron is fundamentally different. I wrote back in February (on scifi.com): [In Gnothi Seauton] Cameron's "reboot" time is about 100 seconds. (She got electrocuted and knocked out, then 80 seconds later she was tossed out a second story window, then 20 seconds later she woke up.) She had said the [Cromarty] Terminator's reboot time was 120 seconds. If she is consistent at 100 seconds in later reboots, then it will be evidence that she is indeed rebooting, but that her model has a quicker reboot time than the [Cromarty] Terminator model. Personally, I think she has a human brain and had a random "reboot" time.How about in Samson and Delilah? Sarah counted down 120 seconds with a stop watch. There's no ambiguity there. Okay, but this is totally consistent with what I've said (elsewhere) about the nature of Cameron and what happened in Samson and Delilah. I am sure that Cameron has a human brain, but also a Terminator endoskeleton and of course a Terminator chip. Her human brain normally overrides the Terminator chip, as shown in Samson and Delilah when her HUD was saying "John Connor: Terminate" and then it said "override". In Samson and Delilah, I've always said it was the evil Terminator within her that was saying "I love you," and therefore it was the evil Terminator within her that had the 120 seconds reboot time. Once John finally got the chip out and cleaned the contacts, Cameron's human mind was once again able to override the Terminator chip.
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Post by allergygal on Dec 11, 2008 14:07:08 GMT -5
I don't think I can explain that any better than I did. Really, though, I think Mr Ferguson is the problem. If they didn't anchor that to an actual event that has an actual date, the time frames could be wide open since Mousetrap. And as I mentioned before, the Mr Ferguson date doesn't even fit where they put it. It's just another one of those things that we have to overlook. It's not exactly a big deal, but considering how important timelines are in this show, I wish they'd be more careful with it. I guess I was confused when you said Sarah and the 3 dots goin on for 6 months.. maybe it's more like 3 or something. I agree with you though that it all took place roughly around the Mousetrap and I'm glad that Zack cleared it up for us. Yeah and it does make sense that the dots quest has been going on a while. At the beginning of Strange Things, John says "you've been looking really hard, mom, maybe too hard." And of course Sarah goes off at the end, with her over-the-top beating of Akagi and the mirror smashing.
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Post by richardstevenhack on Dec 11, 2008 22:01:20 GMT -5
If Cameron turns out to have a human brain in a metal skull, I'm dumping this show for good. No way, Jose.
Second, the problem I have with the time line is not how long it is or when stuff occurs, but the fact that it's not made clear WHEN things occur. It makes zero sense to me to do a "flash back:" IN THE SERIES - which is what Zack is essentially saying - and then jump forward six months to what is supposedly current time without specifying that the incident with Lauren IS in current time (other than the six months ago label).
This is partly why I was confused about what was going on when I tuned in. Derek wanders in on a situation, then they jump back six months to...where? When? And how?
It didn't make any sense for a while - and still doesn't to most people, which is why they're asking WHEN did the six months ago stuff happen?
It was just poor writing and directing in my view. For a show concerned with time travel, apparently there is some deliberate effort to be completely "out of time" in terms of when and in what order things happen. If that's done deliberately to keep the audience embedded in the "time travel" stuff, then fine. Otherwise, I think it's just bad scheduling or something.
As for Derek, as I mentioned in another thread, WHERE was the M-79 grenade launcher (again, with NO reloads!) he showed to Lauren six months before when Sarah was trying to save the Fields? Would have been real handy in Cameron's hands, right? We know an M-79 will absolutely DROP a Terminator. As I also said elsewhere, why the Connors go out without one under the car seat and a box of reloads is beyond me.
And where was Derek six months before? Shacked up with Jesse - no, she hadn't turned up by then, right? And if she had - because now we don't know hardly when ANYTHING is occurring - then when is someone going to ask Derek where the hell he is and not take "where the hell should I be" for an answer?
Also, someone above suggested the Fields Terminator was still out there. I got the impression from Derek's phone call to Sarah at the end - him asking "Are you sure?" - indicated that Sarah and Cameron had dealt with the Terminator off screen. Am I wrong?
And once again, the notion that Sarah would have left the Terminator running around hunting Lauren and Sydney is fairly lame. She cut little Marty loose because that Terminator had been dealt with. Presumably if Skynet send back a second one, it might go after Marty again, but they've been ignoring possible follow up Skynet operations all along anyway, so that's not a surprise. They never followed up on the nuclear plant like Ellison did. So it doesn't surprise me that she would ignore a follow up attack on the Fields. But I really don't think she would have let a Terminator chase the family for six months. She would have set up an ambush for the Terminator using the family as bait - that would have been smart. Especially if Cameron or Derek was there with the bloody M-79.
The writers need a script consultant or what they call a "script doctor". Call me if you can't get Carrie Fisher.
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Post by vicheron on Dec 11, 2008 23:40:47 GMT -5
This is a television show. Do you expect the patients on "ER" and "House" to get follow up visits over multiple episodes? Do you really think that Jack Bauer can accomplish everything he does in just one day? Do you think that planets the Enterprise saves from disasters or wars in "Star Trek" completely recovers after just one episode?
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Post by thecolours on Dec 12, 2008 0:31:51 GMT -5
What is the current date?
The flashback to the cabin scenes in Alpine Fields happened around the time of The Mouse Trap. And TMP occurred on November 18th, 2007. So that would mean the present in AP is April 18, 2008 (give or take a few weeks).
Since AP was originally supposed to be episode 7, how much time has past between then and when episode 13, Earthlings Welcome Here, occurs?
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Post by vicheron on Dec 12, 2008 2:19:06 GMT -5
Didn't "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" take place on Dia De Los Muertos? That's celebrated on the first and second of November.
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t101
Major
Posts: 716
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Post by t101 on Dec 12, 2008 3:17:15 GMT -5
She doesn't have a human brain. Why would she have a brain and a chip? That is silly. Besides it's clear from what we see that a brain simply wouldn't fit in her head with the chip.
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Post by potomac79 on Dec 12, 2008 4:09:25 GMT -5
"It's freakin' big."
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Post by allergygal on Dec 12, 2008 6:50:57 GMT -5
If Cameron turns out to have a human brain in a metal skull, I'm dumping this show for good. No way, Jose. Where did that come from? We've been given absolutely no indication that's the case (or even possible). I wouldn't worry. Well I don't personally think the date is all that important this early in the story. I mean we need to have some idea where we are, but the big things coming up are the Serrano Point opening in August 2009 and judgement day in April 2011. And we're not close to either of those yet. My only gripe about dates is that when they do give them to us, they need to pay more attention to it them themselves. We're all building little timelines in our heads and when they give us bad info it messes that up. I wasn't confused at all by what was happening in the episode and I actually thought they did a good job of clarify that Derek, Lauren and dying mom were present day, the Sarah and Cameron cabin story was 6 months before and then obviously the Derek and Jesse stuff was future war - 2027 or thereabouts. Yeah, it would make sense for them to take that along, but I can fill in a few scenarios that would explain them not having it. Derek could have been off on some other exploratory mission and had his M-79 with him. Or Sarah and Cameron could have simply been going to break into the Fields' house and investigate them (like they did when they first looked into Sherman) only to find out when they got there that a terminator had just recently come through. So they rummage around, find the address of the cabin and off they go in a hurry. No, I think that was quite clear from the Derek/Sarah phone call — Sarah destroyed it in present day. The confusion may come from people talking about her not destroying it in the 6 months ago story. But it's destroyed now. I'll agree that Connors have been very bad about following up on things, but It didn't bother me that Sarah didn't track the terminator because she'd sent the family off into hiding with rules about how to stay safe. And if they hadn't screwed up and called Roger, they'd have been fine. But now that I think about it, Sarah could have set a trap like they did with Cromartie in Mexico. they could have had the mom call Roger to say where she was except when the terminator got there it would encounter fire power instead of Fields. Maybe they hadn't thought of doing that yet Anyway, that terminator is DED now and the target is safe. I can move on and accept that one as a lesson learned on Sarah's part. -- What is the current date? The flashback to the cabin scenes in Alpine Fields happened around the time of The Mouse Trap. And TMP occurred on November 18th, 2007. So that would mean the present in AP is April 18, 2008 (give or take a few weeks). Since AP was originally supposed to be episode 7, how much time has past between then and when episode 13, Earthlings Welcome Here, occurs? We're up to May 2008 now (You only counted up 5 months). -- Didn't "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" take place on Dia De Los Muertos? That's celebrated on the first and second of November. A little further up page 12 The Turk clarified that Mr Ferguson i Ill Todays's date is out of whack (we shouldn't go by the actual date of Dia De Los Muertos).
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Post by finalcylon on Dec 12, 2008 7:51:12 GMT -5
If Cameron turns out to have a human brain in a metal skull, I'm dumping this show for good. No way, Jose. Where did that come from? We've been given absolutely no indication that's the case (or even possible). I wouldn't worry. Absolutely no indication? Are we watching the same show? Cameron passed the ultimate Turing Test, twice. In the first fifteen minutes of the first episode, she passed as a normal human teenage girl in the flesh to a guy who is on the lookout for robots from the future. In Allison From Palmdale, after Cameron's HUD went offline (which we saw happen), she had amnesia and then, forgetting how she was supposed to act, I assert that she acted as her normal self by default... a human teenage girl playing foosball. Most of the time we see Cameron intentionally acting like a robot, because she doesn't want John to fall in love with her. Cameron *IS* Allison, which is how she has her memories, including the voice of her mother and the encounter with the tiger. She is technically a cyborg, part human, part machine. Terminator Stark was stilted by contrast. If John Connor had encountered him, he would have known exactly what he was, almost instantly, thus would have failed the ultimate Turing Test. It could be many years before the show explicitly reveals Cameron's true nature, so I don't really want to argue it further. You can have the last word if you wish, but a few years from now I'll say "I told you so."
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