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Post by allergygal on Sept 28, 2009 1:29:18 GMT -5
In case you were wondering what the name on John's new passport was, I finally figured it out. It's Henry Gage.
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k8ie
Corporal
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Post by k8ie on Sept 28, 2009 18:57:36 GMT -5
I wonder why Henry?
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Post by allergygal on Oct 1, 2009 3:41:25 GMT -5
John... Henry. I'm thinking it done just for fun since it's not really visible on screen.
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Meanwhile, what the hell was on pretty water cooler terminator's chip? John Henry must've gotten some information from it that prompted his jump to the future. I'm thinking it was info about his AI "brother". We know John Henry was very curious about him. But why would that lead him to the future?
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rossbondreturns
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Post by rossbondreturns on Oct 18, 2009 2:01:27 GMT -5
I think J. Henry booked it to the future becuse he would die in the Present.
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Post by allergygal on Dec 10, 2009 2:52:32 GMT -5
Brought over from the Sarah Connor character thread... Its practically a terminator-verse Romeo and Juliet. My founding reason for Jameron shipping. When you put it that way, it makes me lean once again towards the idea that Cameron has not left the building. She's sitting right there in Zeira Corp on The Turk (or she's got her chip in her pocket and John Henry repaired the water cooler terminator's chip to use for himself). I've been back and forth and back and forth on whether or not Cameron's chip is actually in John Henry's head and whether or not she and JH are both on it. But whether we're talking Sarah crack!theory or just Cameron theory, I think it's entirely possible that Cameron intended for John to jump ahead to be safe — away from the people he cares about ("we're all a threat to John"), while she stayed behind to help Sarah fight Kaliba/Skynet. How the Weaver/JH/will you join us thing plays into that, I'm still undecided. I'm cooking up a theory, though... be warned ;D
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Dec 10, 2009 9:34:44 GMT -5
Bring it on A.G! I've been dying to explore what would've happened next, and find out what all went on in the basement... I'm not sure they (Cameron & John Henry) had time to erase or reprogram WaterBoy's cpu chip. That chip if Cam has it is in her pocket. I'll agree with you on Cameron's intentions. I think she made the ultimate sacrifices tho: - to donate her chip to J.H and have herself transferred to the Turk mainframe. Or, her programing is retained on her cpu, but with J.H's personality on it as well. - To send away John meant she'd nolonger be able to protect him. If by transferring herself into the Turk she likely won't be able to continue to protect Sarah. Even if waterboy's chip is there, Sarah likely wouldn't try to resurrect Cameron. Sarah being Cam's closest remaining link to John. - Yet by sending John away, ahead into the future takes him of the radar, much like it did in the pilot episode. Although this time this would be her parting last gift of protection to him. If Cameron hadn't done what she did, she probably knew it'd be impossible to send / make John jump ahead in the future with Catherine. We know how strongly John feels / cares about Cameron at this point, and John wouldn't have budged. Yet Cameron knew her percentage of skin damage / loss would not have allowed her to pass through the TDE. Also John Henry would still be a helpless sitting target in the basement. I am curious - since Cam's body was left behind, what was Sarah going to do with it?
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figaruna
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Post by figaruna on Dec 11, 2009 0:33:20 GMT -5
If Cameron hadn't done what she did, she probably knew it'd be impossible to send / make John jump ahead in the future with Catherine. We know how strongly John feels / cares about Cameron at this point, and John wouldn't have budged. Yet Cameron knew her percentage of skin damage / loss would not have allowed her to pass through the TDE. Also John Henry would still be a helpless sitting target in the basement. Mulling on all the theory stuff y'all are posting as usual, but I have to ask this because it's been bothering me since the finale aired: Isn't JH more of a helpless sitting duck in the future...? I'm probably missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time :B), but yeah. Me is ultra confused on that. When you put it that way, it makes me lean once again towards the idea that Cameron has not left the building. She's sitting right there in Zeira Corp on The Turk (or she's got her chip in her pocket and John Henry repaired the water cooler terminator's chip to use for himself). Definitely vibin' on that, especially the former bit. Huh. Never thought of it that way, but it makes a helluva lotta sense.... Hmmmmmmmm -- ETA:Of course Sarah lets John go/sends John into the future: it's the one chance she has left to save him from Skynet, Judgement Day, The Resistance - this terrible fate that she's hung over his head since the day he was old enough to understand it. Sarah promises John that she'll stop Judgement Day, repeating what she said in the Pilot: "I'll stop it." You have to believe that those aren't empty words to Sarah Connor. They go directly to the heart of the character and the core of the series. From the Pilot: John: Why is this happening again? Sarah: I don't know. John: You stopped it. Sarah: I guess I didn't. John: Well, you can. You changed the future. You just didn't change it enough. So you can do it again. Sarah: I don't know, John. John: I can't keep running. I can't. I'm not who they think I am. Some messiah. Sarah: You don't know that. John: I know. I can't lead an army. Maybe that's you, but it'll never be me. So you've gotta stop it. Please. Mom. Sarah: All right. John: All right what? Sarah: I'll stop it. I'll stop it... Sarah changed the future once before. She knows it's possible. For John, she'll change it again. She has to believe she can change John's future - as John stands in the time bubble, it's all Sarah has left. If Sarah Connor stops Judgement Day, then John Connor materializes not in the middle of Future!War but in the middle of Los Angeles 2027 where he's not hunted, where no one will connect a 17-year-old boy with a 40-year-old fugitive, where Judgement Day never happens and John Connor can go on to have the "normal life" that Sarah believes she has always denied him. Sending the Terminator into the past to assassinate Sarah Connor was Skynet's Hail Mary pass. Sending John into the future is Sarah's. Only the pass is incomplete: John materializes in the middle of Post-Armageddon LA. I know k8ie posted this months ago, but I, poor sap that I am, have only now stumbled upon it and, consequently, need to give it a huuuuuge FRAK YEAH. Pure awesomesauce. *KARMAS LIKE A MAD PERSON* The question isn't "why did Sarah let John go into the future without her". The question is "with John's life at stake, why couldn't Sarah stop Judgement Day?" And that means only one thing: "Who killed Sarah Connor?" Hmm. Definitely understand the "Why couldn't Sarah stop Judgment Day?" quandary, but I don't think Sarah's necessarily dead. Actually, I think she's alive and possibly leading the Resistance... Foreshadowing FTW?? Y/Y?!
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Post by littleb on Dec 11, 2009 10:33:32 GMT -5
Mulling on all the theory stuff y'all are posting as usual, but I have to ask this because it's been bothering me since the finale aired: Isn't JH more of a helpless sitting duck in the future...? I'm probably missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time :B), but yeah. Me is ultra confused on that. He would be if he didn't have Cam's chip. Cos he'd be all "hey, cool, robots! Look at all the pretty fireworks... can I play with your HK?" With Cam's chip he'd be Cam's cunning and wiles with JH's strength which should work out just fine. (or she's got her chip in her pocket and John Henry repaired the water cooler terminator's chip to use for himself) Definitely vibin' on that, especially the former bit. That latter would be terribly convenient. Somehow JH would've had to predict the need for a spare chip in advance of Cameron's approach. Would've needed to have the T-888's endo brought to him and had the ability to actuate a repair (skills I don't think he's up to seeing as he's still playing with toys.) But then, we're also supposed to believe that Cam's chip would fit into a T-888 (i.e JH) and we all know that won't work either cos the models are different and the chip sizes have been shown to be different! I've been back and forth and back and forth on whether or not Cameron's chip is actually in John Henry's head and whether or not she and JH are both on it. But whether we're talking Sarah crack!theory or just Cameron theory, I think it's entirely possible that Cameron intended for John to jump ahead to be safe — away from the people he cares about ("we're all a threat to John"), while she stayed behind to help Sarah fight Kaliba/Skynet. I don't buy that. I think Cam's jumped in JH and is now running about on her own little mission - as ever. I'm not sure whether she even intended John to follow her. The whole "will you join us?" thing affected a massive change in Cam in the finale, everything she did from that point was geared towards that end. It seems to have been so important that she abandoned her mission to protect John and jumped without him. I reckon she went into the future to try and sort that out and she needed a functioning body to do so. Whether JH consented is pretty immaterial, she could've unplugged him easily enough and done the swap without giving him an option. Hmm. Definitely understand the "Why couldn't Sarah stop Judgment Day?" quandary, but I don't think Sarah's necessarily dead. Actually, I think she's alive and possibly leading the Resistance... Season 3 spoilers pointed to Sarah being alive in the future John jumped to. No clues as to what she was doing, but my guess is that she wasn't sitting on her ass and watching the sun sets Foreshadowing FTW?? Y/Y?! Heh. Not sure Sarah has the necessary people-skillz to lead the resistance. But I could certainly see her being a very irritating presence for Skynet in a post J-Day world...
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Dec 12, 2009 4:47:57 GMT -5
Mulling on all the theory stuff y'all are posting as usual, but I have to ask this because it's been bothering me since the finale aired: Isn't JH more of a helpless sitting duck in the future...? I'm probably missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time :B), but yeah. Me is ultra confused on that. He would be if he didn't have Cam's chip. Cos he'd be all "hey, cool, robots! Look at all the pretty fireworks... can I play with your HK?" With Cam's chip he'd be Cam's cunning and wiles with JH's strength which should work out just fine. Most agreed. JH up to this point has been in a child-like state, still learning what he is, what the world is. Unless, theres a universal length adjusting socket inside to accommodate shorter and longer chips. Sort of like a vhs cassette tape loading mechanism. The T888's being a universal chasis design, but can be scaled up or down in size. This is something I havn't thought of before but, Cam's chip is probably the longest in length. Versus some of the chip have been fairly short. I wonder if the chip size is like based on degree of advancement? Say 888's that are built and intended for basic bare bones scouting or combat get the short chip due to the lesser amount of cpu processing and storage needed. Regular 888's for universal all-around duties get a regular sized chip. Specialized and most advanced 888's get the longest of chips, as the chips could be loaded with additional cell cpu's (the little black silicon blocks) for extra depth of emotions, feeling sensations on skin, additional personality profile storage, etc... Cameron probably is a T888 series, model 715. The only catch there is, soon as Cameron pops her cpu skull cover off, turns her cpu a quarter turn and begins to remove it, her body goes offline. Whereas, JH's data tether to the servers is plugged into the back of his neck, leaving his cpu socket open and is currently empty. So JH would have had to been breifed and instructed by Cameron how to do the cpu removal and insertion procedure. Cameron likely cut her skin around her socket to show JH, then one of them cuts the skin on JH's skull. Cameron sits down, has her skull cap popped, JH is then able to remove it, her body goes offline. JH inserts the cpu into his skull, does the quarter turn, while he's still plugged into the server. Cam's cpu boots up, and uses the data tether to transfer herself or however much of herself into the server while pulling JH's persona from the server. I guess thats one question left unanswered. Is that Cameron in the server or part of her, or just a basic message left on auto-loop? Sarah probably would do quite fine.
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figaruna
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Post by figaruna on Dec 12, 2009 14:37:30 GMT -5
He would be if he didn't have Cam's chip. Cos he'd be all "hey, cool, robots! Look at all the pretty fireworks... can I play with your HK?" With Cam's chip he'd be Cam's cunning and wiles with JH's strength which should work out just fine. Most agreed. JH up to this point has been in a child-like state, still learning what he is, what the world is. Huh, cool - never thought of it that way. But I wonder whether JH's child-like personality(?) was more out of inexperience than lack of ... whatever it is that Cam's chip has but Cromartie's didn't? Unless, theres a universal length adjusting socket inside to accommodate shorter and longer chips. Sort of like a vhs cassette tape loading mechanism. The T888's being a universal chasis design, but can be scaled up or down in size. This is something I havn't thought of before but, Cam's chip is probably the longest in length. Versus some of the chip have been fairly short. I wonder if the chip size is like based on degree of advancement? Say 888's that are built and intended for basic bare bones scouting or combat get the short chip due to the lesser amount of cpu processing and storage needed. Regular 888's for universal all-around duties get a regular sized chip. Specialized and most advanced 888's get the longest of chips, as the chips could be loaded with additional cell cpu's (the little black silicon blocks) for extra depth of emotions, feeling sensations on skin, additional personality profile storage, etc... Cameron probably is a T888 series, model 715. See, I've always been the "Oooohhh, that was so hot/in-character, AWESOME"-type of fan. Thank goodness I have you guys to help make sense of all this stuff! FWIW, your theory sounds sound. ...And I think this is unfortunately my limit. *glazes over* :x lol Heh. Not sure Sarah has the necessary people-skillz to lead the resistance. But I could certainly see her being a very irritating presence for Skynet in a post J-Day world... Sarah probably would do quite fine. I think so too. Perhaps it's because I've read quite a few "Sarah leads humanity" fic
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terrasj
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Post by terrasj on Dec 14, 2009 3:04:04 GMT -5
Most agreed. JH up to this point has been in a child-like state, still learning what he is, what the world is. Huh, cool - never thought of it that way. But I wonder whether JH's child-like personality(?) was more out of inexperience than lack of ... whatever it is that Cam's chip has but Cromartie's didn't? Replied to this in a new thread specific for John Henry -= Here =-Its just honest speculation, trying to make sense of what isn't explained. I'm also a computer tech, so those kinds of problems can be fun to try and come up with a reasonable sounding answer. We all bring something to the discussion. If technology/hardware isn't your strong point, don't worry about it. Theres a ton of qualities and aspects to take interest in and chime in on
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figaruna
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Post by figaruna on Jan 27, 2010 2:16:15 GMT -5
Hey y'all,
I'm sorry if this was previously covered (I did a ctrl-F search on most of the pages of this thread and couldn't find much), but was there ever a consensus on whether or not Cameron was purposely obfuscating the truth when she was telling John about Sarah's supposed cancer?
I recently watched the series again with my little sister, and she pointed out that Cameron's cancer detection skills were out of this world in "Self-Made Man" ([Cameron to Eric] "Your cancer's back. You have a secondary tumor in the long bone of your arm and possibly your lungs") but were pretty shoddy when it came to Sarah in BTR.
Thoughts? Quotes? Shooing away gestures??
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Post by littleb on Jan 27, 2010 9:41:35 GMT -5
Hey y'all, I'm sorry if this was previously covered (I did a ctrl-F search on most of the pages of this thread and couldn't find much), but was there ever a consensus on whether or not Cameron was purposely obfuscating the truth when she was telling John about Sarah's supposed cancer? I don't think there was ever a consensus reached... Theories were mooted about Cameron wilfully undermining Sarah for her own reasons. Although why she would do that (because, if anything that would possibly have made John less likely to leave his mother) remained an enigma. Personally, the whole thing made no sense to me, although I do suspect that might have been the way S3 was heading. It made no sense - from a continuity POV - for Sarah to outright deny any weight loss to the doctor in Lighthouse and then, two episodes (and not much time at all because they all ran in very close succession in terms of time passing) later Cameron's claiming that she's lost so much of her body mass she'd practically be invisible if she stood side-on. Sarah was terrified she had cancer in Lighthouse, if there was a massive amount of weight loss going on, that would've been the time to shout out about it. But all she admitted to was feeling nauseated so WTF? Yeah, that was another ridiculous aspect to it. In S1, Cameron tells Sarah she can't do CAT scans, she makes a big point of telling her that's not possible. One season on and she's not only diagnosing mets, she's pinpointing their locations. <sigh> My own particular conclusion is that Friedman wanted to explore Sarah and the cancer through S3. I don't think he'd have killed her off, but I do think he was planning to go down that path. The look on Sarah's face in BTR when John asks her about the weight-loss speaks volumes; she doesn't deny it. If there hadn't been anything to worry about, she'd have told him outright. So I think we were supposed to forget Lighthouse and SMM (because the writers obviously did) and just accept that something was wrong. Maybe it was a rush to try and establish interesting stuff for S3, because BTR, as a whole, seemed to be a desperate attempt to prove they had somewhere to head if they were renewed. I appreciate that as a goal, but the episode, the continuity and particularly the integrity of the characters suffered as a result. One of my own personal hates was John getting implicit confirmation from his mother that yes, she was sick, and five minutes later jumping into a time bubble after his robot. I can't get past that and it's one reason I've not seen the episode for a long time and prefer to pretend that it didn't happen.
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Post by allergygal on Jan 27, 2010 16:13:26 GMT -5
Personally, the whole thing made no sense to me, although I do suspect that might have been the way S3 was heading. It made no sense - from a continuity POV - for Sarah to outright deny any weight loss to the doctor in Lighthouse and then, two episodes (and not much time at all because they all ran in very close succession in terms of time passing) later Cameron's claiming that she's lost so much of her body mass she'd practically be invisible if she stood side-on. Sarah was terrified she had cancer in Lighthouse, if there was a massive amount of weight loss going on, that would've been the time to shout out about it. But all she admitted to was feeling nauseated so WTF? LOL @ being invisible! Yeah if there was that much weight loss and especially in such a short period of time (11% of body mass in 6 weeks!), Sarah would know. I don't care how preoccupied you are with killer machines, when your pants are falling off and you have to punch a new hole in your belt, you'd notice it and you'd mention it to the doctor you've gone to see about a breast lump. It doesn't add up at all, so I think Cameron had to be completely lying about that weight loss. Does John then get a dunce award for buying it? Hmm. Mom doesn't look like she's lost much weight, but I guess if Cameron says it, I believe it. I learned my lesson with the Riley thing. I'll never doubt Cameron again... even when it defies logic!Yeah, that was another ridiculous aspect to it. In S1, Cameron tells Sarah she can't do CAT scans, she makes a big point of telling her that's not possible. One season on and she's not only diagnosing mets, she's pinpointing their locations. <sigh> I always thought Cameron was lying in Gnothi Seauton when Sarah asked her about scanning. Maybe that's why she specified "you mean... CAT scans?" — so she could answer "no" without actually lying (but then Cameron's never exactly had a problem with the lying). I agree that Self Made Man showed that she can, in fact, detect cancer. So either Cameron has been lying all along about Sarah having cancer or one of her mission objectives has been to keep an eye on her health to get a jump on treatment when it first shows up. If she's the best fighter, Cameron needs her around in good health. My own particular conclusion is that Friedman wanted to explore Sarah and the cancer through S3. I don't think he'd have killed her off, but I do think he was planning to go down that path. The look on Sarah's face in BTR when John asks her about the weight-loss speaks volumes; she doesn't deny it. If there hadn't been anything to worry about, she'd have told him outright. So I think we were supposed to forget Lighthouse and SMM (because the writers obviously did) and just accept that something was wrong. Sarah doesn't deny it because it's vague. "Mom, are you sick? Cameron thinks you're sick... you've lost weight." She believed getting cancer was her fate, so she was always expecting it to show up. Just like with that lump in her breast. Sarah immediately assumed it was cancer and that she was going to die from it. She was so sure that was the beginning of her end that she was making arrangements with Charley before she'd even been to a doctor. Maybe it was a rush to try and establish interesting stuff for S3, because BTR, as a whole, seemed to be a desperate attempt to prove they had somewhere to head if they were renewed. I appreciate that as a goal, but the episode, the continuity and particularly the integrity of the characters suffered as a result. One of my own personal hates was John getting implicit confirmation from his mother that yes, she was sick, and five minutes later jumping into a time bubble after his robot. I can't get past that and it's one reason I've not seen the episode for a long time and prefer to pretend that it didn't happen. That didn't happen. John Connor would never choose helping a robot over helping his own mom. Denial isn't such a bad place
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figaruna
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Post by figaruna on Jan 28, 2010 1:39:27 GMT -5
I always thought Cameron was lying in Gnothi Seauton when Sarah asked her about scanning. [...] I agree that Self Made Man showed that she can, in fact, detect cancer. So either Cameron has been lying all along about Sarah having cancer or one of her mission objectives has been to keep an eye on her health to get a jump on treatment when it first shows up. If she's the best fighter, Cameron needs her around in good health. This is pretty much where I stand with this at the moment too because the idea of the writers callously sweeping "Lighthouse" and "SMM" under the rug just hurts too much to bear! Cameron lying to Sarah about it seems so much easier to accept, even though we aren't given any clear reasons yet as to why. Pushing Sarah to proactively seek treatment seems like a sensible reason, but if that were the case, I don't understand why Cameron couldn't have just told Sarah "No, you don't have it right now, but looking into it wouldn't be a bad idea." I think Cameron had to be completely lying about that weight loss. Does John then get a dunce award for buying it? Hmm. Mom doesn't look like she's lost much weight, but I guess if Cameron says it, I believe it. I learned my lesson with the Riley thing. I'll never doubt Cameron again... even when it defies logic!John/Cluebat = the OTP of S3? Maybe it was a rush to try and establish interesting stuff for S3, because BTR, as a whole, seemed to be a desperate attempt to prove they had somewhere to head if they were renewed. I appreciate that as a goal, but the episode, the continuity and particularly the integrity of the characters suffered as a result. One of my own personal hates was John getting implicit confirmation from his mother that yes, she was sick, and five minutes later jumping into a time bubble after his robot. I can't get past that and it's one reason I've not seen the episode for a long time and prefer to pretend that it didn't happen. That didn't happen. John Connor would never choose helping a robot over helping his own mom. Denial isn't such a bad place Like I said: shock-induced paralysis. It's the only way I can rationalize it...
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