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Post by cromartie on Nov 18, 2010 7:04:19 GMT -5
The weight of expectation on John Connor has been with his since childhood. It has prevented him from having normal friendships and relationships. When JC was catapulted forward in time into a post Judgement Day world, he saw that the resistance was established with it's leadership in place. He must have felt the pressure lifted off him. Maybe it ended in the way it did to give him a new beginning as a small cog in a big wheel - a role which he could excel in.
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Post by allergygal on Nov 19, 2010 17:39:00 GMT -5
I think they killed him off because they'd run out of ideas for him. They'd painted him into a corner with the whole Jesse subplot - Sarah mistrusted him enough to ditch him and I just don't think the writers could be arsed trying to fix that. Too much time, too much effort. Easier to kill him off (and get brownie points for wrong-footing everyone and being really brave 'n' stuff) and then reset the character with a new Derek 2.0. BAG stays employed, they still get a Derek to write but without all the inconvenient baggage (heh baggage... no pun intended) Derek 1.0 had accrued. Bitter much? Yeah, a little. As shocking and brilliant a moment as Derek's death was, the more I thought about it, the more it just seemed like a cop-out. Kinda amuses me when I see fic or fans pairing up Ellison and Sarah as a buddy-team. She ditched Derek for knowing about Jesse, what the hell would she do with Ellison once she realised exactly how deep he was in the whole John Henry/Cromartie debacle? Irony is, the show probably was heading there had it got a third season which would have been ever so slightly annoying (well, for me at any rate!) I like to think Sarah wouldn't have such double-standards... Even though Derek's death happened after the Jesse-Riley story had finished, it did feel like part of the clean-up of that arc. Maybe they wanted to get rid of all evidence of it. I'm sure you're right about Sarah working with Ellison — there wasn't anyone else left for her to interact with except him. I'd rather have her wandering about as a lone warrior, but I doubt they'd do that. So as difficult to swallow as a Sarah-Ellison alliance would be, it seems likely that's what they were setting up. I no longer even think Derek or Kyle would've jumped to present day.... Rebooting Derek for John's future story makes sense because it's bizarro future. But since new Derek would've been there regardless of whether original Derek was still alive in the present or not, it's not an explanation for why they killed him off. I think they simply wanted to remove him from the present-day story. Whatever his purpose was, they considered it done, so doing it again with a watered-down setup wouldn't make any sense. Original Derek's arrival had a strong emotional punch to it because... OMG Kyle's bother! But the Kyle-Sarah-Derek connection is already played-out now. Why send a Reese boy to present day if there's no significance to him being a Reese boy? It wouldn't be much different than a random soldier showing up and I can't see any point to it. I tend to think Derek would probably only be in the future story and then that would be it for him. I've ruled out new Kyle coming back too. Remember how outraged people were at the possibility that we might've been seeing a real Kyle in the previews for Good Wound? I think if Kyle were jumped to present day, it would cause a fan revolt bigger than if Sarah had taken Derek's sniper rifle and blown Cameron's chip to bits (and I don't mean just the diehard internet fans, I mean all Terminator fans). I'm sure that's why they never did it in the first place (and why they created a Reese brother instead). If they did roll the dice, though, and jumped Kyle back, it wouldn't have much emotional pull to it. It's not Kyle. Even the Sarah-mind-frak aspect wouldn't be very interesting... He doesn't know her, she feels weird about it and then he dies. The end. Not much story possibility there. That doesn't mean Sarah's doomed to only working with the one man she knows for a fact she can't trust, though. I think she'd also end up working with John Henry to battle Kaliba. Since Ellison is tied to the John Henry story, that's how it all comes together (without Sarah having to dumb herself down to work with Ellison). She'll need him to help track John Henry. The weight of expectation on John Connor has been with his since childhood. It has prevented him from having normal friendships and relationships. When JC was catapulted forward in time into a post Judgement Day world, he saw that the resistance was established with it's leadership in place. He must have felt the pressure lifted off him. Maybe it ended in the way it did to give him a new beginning as a small cog in a big wheel - a role which he could excel in. Definitely. That burden John's been carrying around was never of his own choosing; it was thrust on him since birth. I think he feels like Sarah did in T1, when she said to Kyle "I didn't ask for this honor and I don't want it, any of it!" John's time in the future will probably make him embrace his role, just like Sarah embraced hers after her time with Kyle in T1. This is who they are and this is what they do because they know about it all. They didn't choose this life, but they can choose to make the best of it and they can choose to fight to save the human race. I think that's the outlook John will come back with.
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Post by cromartie on Dec 3, 2010 6:22:38 GMT -5
Definitely. That burden John's been carrying around was never of his own choosing; it was thrust on him since birth. I think he feels like Sarah did in T1, when she said to Kyle "I didn't ask for this honor and I don't want it, any of it!" John's time in the future will probably make him embrace his role, just like Sarah embraced hers after her time with Kyle in T1. This is who they are and this is what they do because they know about it all. They didn't choose this life, but they can choose to make the best of it and they can choose to fight to save the human race. I think that's the outlook John will come back with. I think in the present day, no matter how much his mother used to convince him, there must have been a small amount of doubt in his system about Judgement Day and it's aftermath. His travel into the future will put him in front of the stark realities.
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Post by cromartie on Dec 3, 2010 6:25:05 GMT -5
Will there be a film sequel to Salvation? i.e. T5
Will the story line be independent to TSCC? Or will it incorporate elements of the TSCC plot?
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Post by cromartie on Jan 17, 2011 7:56:09 GMT -5
Original Derek's arrival had a strong emotional punch to it because... OMG Kyle's bother! But the Kyle-Sarah-Derek connection is already played-out now. Why send a Reese boy to present day if there's no significance to him being a Reese boy? It wouldn't be much different than a random soldier showing up and I can't see any point to it. I tend to think Derek would probably only be in the future story and then that would be it for him. I think Derek gave JC an insight into what his father (KR) was like, helped to develop his love for his absent father who was martyred against skynet. A double-edged sword in a way. Do you remember in the Jesse sub-plot. There was this doctor who Jesse remembered as being her torturer, whereas Derek didn't remember him as being so bad. They concluded that they must have been in parallel universes (my words) at that time each having different memories of events. The parallel universes could explain how Derek 2.0 is alive and well in the future.
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Post by cromartie on Jan 17, 2011 7:57:26 GMT -5
I think they killed him off because they'd run out of ideas for him. They'd painted him into a corner with the whole Jesse subplot - Sarah mistrusted him enough to ditch him and I just don't think the writers could be arsed trying to fix that. Too much time, too much effort. Easier to kill him off (and get brownie points for wrong-footing everyone and being really brave 'n' stuff) and then reset the character with a new Derek 2.0. BAG stays employed, they still get a Derek to write but without all the inconvenient baggage (heh baggage... no pun intended) Derek 1.0 had accrued. Bitter much? Yeah, a little. As shocking and brilliant a moment as Derek's death was, the more I thought about it, the more it just seemed like a cop-out. Kinda amuses me when I see fic or fans pairing up Ellison and Sarah as a buddy-team. She ditched Derek for knowing about Jesse, what the hell would she do with Ellison once she realised exactly how deep he was in the whole John Henry/Cromartie debacle? Irony is, the show probably was heading there had it got a third season which would have been ever so slightly annoying (well, for me at any rate!) I like to think Sarah wouldn't have such double-standards... Even though Derek's death happened after the Jesse-Riley story had finished, it did feel like part of the clean-up of that arc. Maybe they wanted to get rid of all evidence of it. I'm sure you're right about Sarah working with Ellison — there wasn't anyone else left for her to interact with except him. I'd rather have her wandering about as a lone warrior, but I doubt they'd do that. So as difficult to swallow as a Sarah-Ellison alliance would be, it seems likely that's what they were setting up. I no longer even think Derek or Kyle would've jumped to present day.... Rebooting Derek for John's future story makes sense because it's bizarro future. But since new Derek would've been there regardless of whether original Derek was still alive in the present or not, it's not an explanation for why they killed him off. I think they simply wanted to remove him from the present-day story. Whatever his purpose was, they considered it done, so doing it again with a watered-down setup wouldn't make any sense. Original Derek's arrival had a strong emotional punch to it because... OMG Kyle's bother! But the Kyle-Sarah-Derek connection is already played-out now. Why send a Reese boy to present day if there's no significance to him being a Reese boy? It wouldn't be much different than a random soldier showing up and I can't see any point to it. I tend to think Derek would probably only be in the future story and then that would be it for him. I've ruled out new Kyle coming back too. Remember how outraged people were at the possibility that we might've been seeing a real Kyle in the previews for Good Wound? I think if Kyle were jumped to present day, it would cause a fan revolt bigger than if Sarah had taken Derek's sniper rifle and blown Cameron's chip to bits (and I don't mean just the diehard internet fans, I mean all Terminator fans). I'm sure that's why they never did it in the first place (and why they created a Reese brother instead). If they did roll the dice, though, and jumped Kyle back, it wouldn't have much emotional pull to it. It's not Kyle. Even the Sarah-mind-frak aspect wouldn't be very interesting... He doesn't know her, she feels weird about it and then he dies. The end. Not much story possibility there. That doesn't mean Sarah's doomed to only working with the one man she knows for a fact she can't trust, though. I think she'd also end up working with John Henry to battle Kaliba. Since Ellison is tied to the John Henry story, that's how it all comes together (without Sarah having to dumb herself down to work with Ellison). She'll need him to help track John Henry. The weight of expectation on John Connor has been with his since childhood. It has prevented him from having normal friendships and relationships. When JC was catapulted forward in time into a post Judgement Day world, he saw that the resistance was established with it's leadership in place. He must have felt the pressure lifted off him. Maybe it ended in the way it did to give him a new beginning as a small cog in a big wheel - a role which he could excel in. Definitely. That burden John's been carrying around was never of his own choosing; it was thrust on him since birth. I think he feels like Sarah did in T1, when she said to Kyle "I didn't ask for this honor and I don't want it, any of it!" John's time in the future will probably make him embrace his role, just like Sarah embraced hers after her time with Kyle in T1. This is who they are and this is what they do because they know about it all. They didn't choose this life, but they can choose to make the best of it and they can choose to fight to save the human race. I think that's the outlook John will come back with.
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Post by virus on Mar 29, 2011 18:31:45 GMT -5
Does anyone else think there is more to agent Auldridge than just possibly believing Sarah? Consider this; If anyone out there was in desperate need to get into contact with Sarah Connor, but did not know where to look, Auldridge's postion would be an excellent place to stand (similar to Sarah posing as Derek's lawyer back in Queen's Gambit). Auldridge also gives away information about Danny Dyson, believes without any signs of doubt that John Connor is alive; and tries very hard to find him.
Considering the cancelled seasons, if the information about Danny Dyson was at all relevant to Sarah's story then she will be looking for more information on it, in this scenario it would make alot of sense for agent Auldridge to be revisited by Sarah (or Ellison perhaps as he would have the best access to this character), as he is so far the only lead she has. Josh Friedman even mentions in the commentary how he always wanted to work with this particular actor. I'm considering the possibility that the episode was written with the possibility of making Auldridge important in later seasons if the actor was available.
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Post by allergygal on Apr 6, 2011 14:02:24 GMT -5
Does anyone else think there is more to agent Auldridge than just possibly believing Sarah? Consider this; If anyone out there was in desperate need to get into contact with Sarah Connor, but did not know where to look, Auldridge's postion would be an excellent place to stand (similar to Sarah posing as Derek's lawyer back in Queen's Gambit). Auldridge also gives away information about Danny Dyson, believes without any signs of doubt that John Connor is alive; and tries very hard to find him. Considering the cancelled seasons, if the information about Danny Dyson was at all relevant to Sarah's story then she will be looking for more information on it, in this scenario it would make alot of sense for agent Auldridge to be revisited by Sarah (or Ellison perhaps as he would have the best access to this character), as he is so far the only lead she has. Josh Friedman even mentions in the commentary how he always wanted to work with this particular actor. I'm considering the possibility that the episode was written with the possibility of making Auldridge important in later seasons if the actor was available. I'm sure we would've seen Aldridge again in connection to the Danny Dyson story arc, but when he told Sarah he believed her, I definitely didn't believe him. In his scene with Ellison, Aldridge said: "Maybe she's a liar lacking proper motivation to tell the truth." So when he talked to Sarah in the cell, he was just playing a new angle to try to get her to reveal John's whereabouts.
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Post by aztalanturf on Apr 15, 2011 0:32:46 GMT -5
I think Auldrich was just playing cop and trying to get on crazy Sarah Connor's good side. His curiosity may have been piqued by the fact that John and Sarah looked too young for their ages but I don't think he bought the full story. They are in LA right? Plastic surgery happens....
The reason why I don't think he believes her is the "maintained a moral and good soul" comment. That value judgement seemed a little over the top and unnecessary in this context unless he was trying to get on her good side.
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Post by allergygal on Apr 25, 2011 1:43:56 GMT -5
he reason why I don't think he believes her is the "maintained a moral and good soul" comment. That value judgement seemed a little over the top and unnecessary in this context unless he was trying to get on her good side. That's a good point. Just look at Ellison, who found out that Grade-A Whack-A-Mole Sarah Connor had actually been telling the truth about robots from the future wanting to kill her son. Yet, he still saw her as guilty of murder and kidnapping ("you could paint them a picture... if you're innocent"). So it's rather unlikely that Aldridge would do a 180º turn on his belief in Sarah's guilt just because she didn't appear to have aged much. It would take a hell of a lot more than that observation to make someone believe she was innocent. He was just trying to motivate her to give up John — Hey, I'm your friend. I believe you. So you can share the truth with me about your son.Sarah didn't fall for it.
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Post by aztalanturf on Apr 28, 2011 21:10:47 GMT -5
That's our Sarah!
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Post by virus on Apr 29, 2011 6:14:48 GMT -5
Well argued, but I wasn't thinking that they would go the agent Ellison route again with another character.
More on the lines of Auldridge being a secret skynet/kaliba or even resistance member, or some other hidden reason for wanting to talk with sarah and find out where john is.
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Post by allergygal on May 5, 2011 12:20:20 GMT -5
Well argued, but I wasn't thinking that they would go the agent Ellison route again with another character. More on the lines of Auldridge being a secret skynet/kaliba or even resistance member, or some other hidden reason for wanting to talk with sarah and find out where john is. Oh I never thought of that possibility for Auldridge. I assumed he'd be like the new Ellison — an FBI guy trying to track Sarah who little-by-little discovers the truth and becomes somewhat of an ally (the way I think they'd initially conceived the character of Ellison before branching him off into the Weaver story). I'll have to ponder the idea of Auldridge being a Skynet/Kaliba agent.
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Post by cammeron on Jan 21, 2012 22:50:29 GMT -5
This episode is amazing, the series ends this way cut the heart, many questions with no answer...
I never felt so down with a canceling a show...
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